Dynoed the Maggie!
06-12-2015, 05:37 AM
#62
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EDIT: Oh. Just reread a few posts earlier in the thread, and it appears your experience level was indeed questioned.
From my perspective, I guess I still don't understand why peak power would occur at the "commanded" 11.77 point. (And thanks for mentioning that your efforts to get good driveability aren't fully appreciated since too many of us focus on peak numbers ... I'm guilty as charged on that one.)
Last edited by rand49er; 06-12-2015 at 05:48 AM. Reason: add a line
06-12-2015, 06:37 AM
#63
What I was saying or explaining was that I had commanded 11.77 in the PE table and achieved 11.75 actually afr in the pull. Basically showing that I didn't hack the PE table up. I was also showing that I understand that 11.7-11.8 AFR is where boosted ls engines make best power.
As you can see from Ricks graph his power curve is extremely smooth and holds excellent torque throughout the entire pull.
When I tune vehicles I will normally back the car down a little before sending it on the street...I prefer have customers happy for a long time with 10 less rwhp on the street.
Dynos are great and a I love using mine but it's no more than a wide open throttle tool.
Feel and street manor are very important to me and I spend more time on the street than on the dyno when calibrating vehicles.
Dyno numbers are just that...numbers.
Real numbers come at the track.
Fuel efficiency is also a nice number I try to improve on as well ...because who likes paying for wasted fuel.
As you can see from Ricks graph his power curve is extremely smooth and holds excellent torque throughout the entire pull.
When I tune vehicles I will normally back the car down a little before sending it on the street...I prefer have customers happy for a long time with 10 less rwhp on the street.
Dynos are great and a I love using mine but it's no more than a wide open throttle tool.
Feel and street manor are very important to me and I spend more time on the street than on the dyno when calibrating vehicles.
Dyno numbers are just that...numbers.
Real numbers come at the track.
Fuel efficiency is also a nice number I try to improve on as well ...because who likes paying for wasted fuel.
06-12-2015, 09:18 AM
#64
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The car made the power because the iats were so low. How they were that low is a good question. Usually maggie cars with out headers make est 450's, cars with headers 475.
Headers will make more power than stock manifolds amd the maggies DO NOT like back pressure. They are a roots blower and boost comes on immediately.. Back pressure will only hinder the efficiency of the 112.
Headers will make more power than stock manifolds amd the maggies DO NOT like back pressure. They are a roots blower and boost comes on immediately.. Back pressure will only hinder the efficiency of the 112.
http://stainlessworks.net/cadillac-c...ngtube-headers
Been looking at these as the Kooks are pricey!!!
06-12-2015, 09:50 AM
#65
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... http://stainlessworks.net/cadillac-c...ngtube-headers
Been looking at these as the Kooks are pricey!!!
Been looking at these as the Kooks are pricey!!!
How do they do it?
06-12-2015, 11:59 AM
#66
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06-12-2015, 01:52 PM
#67
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Here's their quote:
"Tested at Strope Speed Shop, our stock 2005 CTS-V with Stainless Works headers and catback with a tune made 53 HP and 47 TQ to the wheels over stock!!!!"
Rick, if you get that, I'm selling my Kooks and getting some, too!
"Tested at Strope Speed Shop, our stock 2005 CTS-V with Stainless Works headers and catback with a tune made 53 HP and 47 TQ to the wheels over stock!!!!"
Rick, if you get that, I'm selling my Kooks and getting some, too!
06-12-2015, 05:47 PM
#68
As for the information in general, it is exceptional that you have provided the detailed 'side information' for clarity... assumptions is all over the place with the limited info otherwise.
06-12-2015, 07:16 PM
#69
Yes the load cell option on a dyno is a great piece of equipment to have.
unfortunately I do not have that but when tuning I can promise you that I spend the time dialing in the MAF and VE table as well when required to do so depending on the vehicle being calibrated.
Maybe one day if I move to a larger shop and find an extra $25k I will be fortunate enough to make that purchase. It certainly helps dialing in the VE table and makes it much quicker than street tuning the VE table.
I do preffer to calibrate the lower portion of my MAF on the street with a nice slow MAF sweep. I really only use the dyno for dialing in the top half or the MAF curve and VE tables.
Greg's Injector data table are nice starting points for most calibration and I will only calibrate vehicles who have solid injector data available...other wise the calibration is a guess at best...not a fan of guessing.
unfortunately I do not have that but when tuning I can promise you that I spend the time dialing in the MAF and VE table as well when required to do so depending on the vehicle being calibrated.
Maybe one day if I move to a larger shop and find an extra $25k I will be fortunate enough to make that purchase. It certainly helps dialing in the VE table and makes it much quicker than street tuning the VE table.
I do preffer to calibrate the lower portion of my MAF on the street with a nice slow MAF sweep. I really only use the dyno for dialing in the top half or the MAF curve and VE tables.
Greg's Injector data table are nice starting points for most calibration and I will only calibrate vehicles who have solid injector data available...other wise the calibration is a guess at best...not a fan of guessing.
06-13-2015, 10:46 AM
#70
understandable on running with what you have at your disposal for tools.
Greg did spend some time with those injector manufacturers to calc out into xls tables. One can dive into the math themselves, but it is quite intense and some details on specs are needed (hard to obtain that info).
I smile every time I hear someone has purchased a set of ID injectors. Life is easy from that point.
Not a fan of guessing - AGREED!
Greg did spend some time with those injector manufacturers to calc out into xls tables. One can dive into the math themselves, but it is quite intense and some details on specs are needed (hard to obtain that info).
I smile every time I hear someone has purchased a set of ID injectors. Life is easy from that point.
Not a fan of guessing - AGREED!
06-14-2015, 11:16 AM
#73
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In any case, stock exh mans are designed to perform the function of effectively evacuating spent gases from the cylinders at road-load conditions. Getting headers should show a significant improvement in peak power at higher (not so much mid-range) RPMs. 20? 25? More? I'd think at least 25 rwhp.
06-14-2015, 02:14 PM
#74
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Can't recall, but one of the "competing" headers doesn't come with equal-length primaries like Kooks. Was it Stainless Works?
In any case, stock exh mans are designed to perform the function of effectively evacuating spent gases from the cylinders at road-load conditions. Getting headers should show a significant improvement in peak power at higher (not so much mid-range) RPMs. 20? 25? More? I'd think at least 25 rwhp.
In any case, stock exh mans are designed to perform the function of effectively evacuating spent gases from the cylinders at road-load conditions. Getting headers should show a significant improvement in peak power at higher (not so much mid-range) RPMs. 20? 25? More? I'd think at least 25 rwhp.
We will see how it unfolds. In a perfect world one of my tree's on my property would have money on it every spring. I keep looking....
06-14-2015, 04:05 PM
#75
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Id be pleased with 25 rwhp, but if its going to be peak hp then its of no use for me. The money rpm's for me is in the 2000-4500 range which is where I drive most of the time. I am expecting power through out the entire band Randy, but in saying that I might be disappointed. The car runs top right now so one part of my brain tells me not to mess with it, and the other parts says.....well maybe some more hp/tq would be nice.
We will see how it unfolds. In a perfect world one of my tree's on my property would have money on it every spring. I keep looking....
We will see how it unfolds. In a perfect world one of my tree's on my property would have money on it every spring. I keep looking....
Even with an aftermarket exhaust, if you leave the OEM cats in place, the sound just won't be there. Get the headers and either run naked or get the metallic cats so it doesn't stink so bad. Oh, the music you'll make!
06-15-2015, 09:35 PM
#77
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I am convinced that headers are a win-win! Just have to figure out which ones....and when!
Last edited by 88BlackZ-51; 06-15-2015 at 09:46 PM.
06-19-2015, 05:14 AM
#80
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Yeah just figuring out the pro's and con's of all headers. The OBX's aren't quite a knock off with the 2.5 collectors. Not many complaints with the Kooks....