Lowering CTS-V with cut stock springs - results and review
03-07-2016, 10:27 PM
#1
Lowering CTS-V with cut stock springs - results and review This month after owning my V for almost 4 years I decided to lower it. I had been considering it for about 3 years but I had some reservations not to mention that I was fairly happy with how it was.
My previous two cars, VQ powered Nissan sedans I also lowered, with H&R springs and Vogtland springs and aftermarket performance dampeners. The V I decided to lower using the stock springs. My reasons for doing so:
- As a DD in MN, I wanted a relativley mild, streetable drop that would allow for and maintain good alignment and decent ride quality.
- I don't track the car but do specifically go out on exended trips to the best roads in my region to tear up the twisties. I don't need a $5k suspension, but I also was prepared to swap everything out if this turned out lower than my expectations.
- People will argue with me, but I am willing to bet the factory, Sachs dampeners are more solid and of a better quality than the Taiwanese products that come with the $900 coil over setups on the market. What is better to me might not mean better for you.
- With the V's decently sporting spring rate and quality of FE4 dampener, I believed the car can handle an approx. ~1" drop without any of the classic problems that Honda Civic suspension components suffer from when modified.
- What I wanted from the drop, and in equal importance to me, was: better looks and small tire to fender gap and better handling via less body roll and less suspension wallow/float I occasionally feel and slight increased spring rate via spring length reduction. In essence, I am a huge fan of how the factory V handles/rides (after addition of my Hotckiss sway bars) - and I want to keep that balance.
Because of the spring rate of the oem springs and the desired amount of travel to give a decent ride, if you slam a car on stock springs you are going to run into problems. It will still allow for too much spring travel and the factory dampeners will allow too much movement resulting in either rubbing issues or a bouncy ride as the cut stock spring overwhelms dampeners. Those who have dropped it more with stock springs might report those aren't issues, but they're possibilities I wanted to avoid.
Post cut review:
I'll be completely honest here with my review. If it sucked, I'd let you know and just buy some OEM springs again or possibly go with the H&R springs although I thought they always sat a little low in the back. I don't have any negatives to say about how this turned out. I do not rub anywhere on 245/45 stock size tires. The handling has gotten better and the turn-in is noticeably better - my initial impressions were the car is much more fun to drive. Less body roll, which was already excellent with the Hotchkiss sways. The ride is, to the best of my ability, nearly identical to stock. However, it has less float and wallow when going over transitions in the road and along elevation changes on the highway - the result to me and my wife is that the ride is more comfortable, - it's more stable yet it absorbs imperfections just like stock did. I have no bounciness to speak of, period. On original FE4 dampeners with 128k miles on them. There's still a little bit of wallow and the rear rebound dampening could be a little more aggressive - but it's better than it was stock, so it's a win. I'm extremely happy with how it is other than the rear height settling a bit more than I had hoped.
How much I cut:
Here is a pic of the front and rear coils stacked on each other. As you can see I cut more off the rear (right). After things settled, and with the addition of the MM spacers, I would have cut slightly less off the rears. To me, the car always seemed to have a bigger rear gap, and I wanted it even.
Also, the car's drivers front sits about .30" higher than the other corners despite the same amount of coil being cut. Others have reported this. I might trim a small amount off of it in the future. For now, I'll see if I stop noticing it.
Pics:
I can update this when I get time to take some better pics. I'm on a work trip and have time to write this up now but no great pics. I transitioned to my summer GM accessory wheels right after lowering and then I also replaced my tires shortly after, going from a 255/45 to stock size, so I'll include pics of all. The 255/45 was fine and I didn't hear any rubbing driving normally but after a day of pushing the car hard I noticed some rubbing along the wheel well push pins.
Winter stock wheels with Blizzak 225/50 tires. Wheels are black chrome.
With worn 255/45 Michelin Pilot Sport A/S3.
With new Continental DWS06 245/45
The back settled a lot more than I thought it would after I cut the fronts, and I think the much higher rear shock mount due to the MM spacers may have put some more weight on the springs too as it sat .5" higher the first two days even after letting it sit overnight to let the nivomat shocks settle. Having said that, I'm pretty happy with how it sits. Money wise, I'm into this for a $3 4.5" cutting wheel and the $75 MM spacers. I have lifetime alignment and they adjusted the toe and we agreed to leave the camber where it settled at -1.9/-2.0 in the back and -1.4/-1.2 in the front.
With stock sized tires, to my memory all corners are at 26.5" and the drivers front is 26.75". When I sit in it, it is level with the passenger side, but the rear comes down a slight amount also. details...
My previous two cars, VQ powered Nissan sedans I also lowered, with H&R springs and Vogtland springs and aftermarket performance dampeners. The V I decided to lower using the stock springs. My reasons for doing so:
- As a DD in MN, I wanted a relativley mild, streetable drop that would allow for and maintain good alignment and decent ride quality.
- I don't track the car but do specifically go out on exended trips to the best roads in my region to tear up the twisties. I don't need a $5k suspension, but I also was prepared to swap everything out if this turned out lower than my expectations.
- People will argue with me, but I am willing to bet the factory, Sachs dampeners are more solid and of a better quality than the Taiwanese products that come with the $900 coil over setups on the market. What is better to me might not mean better for you.
- With the V's decently sporting spring rate and quality of FE4 dampener, I believed the car can handle an approx. ~1" drop without any of the classic problems that Honda Civic suspension components suffer from when modified.
- What I wanted from the drop, and in equal importance to me, was: better looks and small tire to fender gap and better handling via less body roll and less suspension wallow/float I occasionally feel and slight increased spring rate via spring length reduction. In essence, I am a huge fan of how the factory V handles/rides (after addition of my Hotckiss sway bars) - and I want to keep that balance.
Because of the spring rate of the oem springs and the desired amount of travel to give a decent ride, if you slam a car on stock springs you are going to run into problems. It will still allow for too much spring travel and the factory dampeners will allow too much movement resulting in either rubbing issues or a bouncy ride as the cut stock spring overwhelms dampeners. Those who have dropped it more with stock springs might report those aren't issues, but they're possibilities I wanted to avoid.
Post cut review:
I'll be completely honest here with my review. If it sucked, I'd let you know and just buy some OEM springs again or possibly go with the H&R springs although I thought they always sat a little low in the back. I don't have any negatives to say about how this turned out. I do not rub anywhere on 245/45 stock size tires. The handling has gotten better and the turn-in is noticeably better - my initial impressions were the car is much more fun to drive. Less body roll, which was already excellent with the Hotchkiss sways. The ride is, to the best of my ability, nearly identical to stock. However, it has less float and wallow when going over transitions in the road and along elevation changes on the highway - the result to me and my wife is that the ride is more comfortable, - it's more stable yet it absorbs imperfections just like stock did. I have no bounciness to speak of, period. On original FE4 dampeners with 128k miles on them. There's still a little bit of wallow and the rear rebound dampening could be a little more aggressive - but it's better than it was stock, so it's a win. I'm extremely happy with how it is other than the rear height settling a bit more than I had hoped.
How much I cut:
Here is a pic of the front and rear coils stacked on each other. As you can see I cut more off the rear (right). After things settled, and with the addition of the MM spacers, I would have cut slightly less off the rears. To me, the car always seemed to have a bigger rear gap, and I wanted it even.
Also, the car's drivers front sits about .30" higher than the other corners despite the same amount of coil being cut. Others have reported this. I might trim a small amount off of it in the future. For now, I'll see if I stop noticing it.
Pics:
I can update this when I get time to take some better pics. I'm on a work trip and have time to write this up now but no great pics. I transitioned to my summer GM accessory wheels right after lowering and then I also replaced my tires shortly after, going from a 255/45 to stock size, so I'll include pics of all. The 255/45 was fine and I didn't hear any rubbing driving normally but after a day of pushing the car hard I noticed some rubbing along the wheel well push pins.
Winter stock wheels with Blizzak 225/50 tires. Wheels are black chrome.
With worn 255/45 Michelin Pilot Sport A/S3.
With new Continental DWS06 245/45
The back settled a lot more than I thought it would after I cut the fronts, and I think the much higher rear shock mount due to the MM spacers may have put some more weight on the springs too as it sat .5" higher the first two days even after letting it sit overnight to let the nivomat shocks settle. Having said that, I'm pretty happy with how it sits. Money wise, I'm into this for a $3 4.5" cutting wheel and the $75 MM spacers. I have lifetime alignment and they adjusted the toe and we agreed to leave the camber where it settled at -1.9/-2.0 in the back and -1.4/-1.2 in the front.
With stock sized tires, to my memory all corners are at 26.5" and the drivers front is 26.75". When I sit in it, it is level with the passenger side, but the rear comes down a slight amount also. details...
Last edited by MN_V; 03-08-2016 at 06:17 AM.
03-08-2016, 07:16 AM
#2
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Thanks for the detailed write-up and honest opinion/results. I've been planning to do this myself, bought the MM spacers, then read some posts where folks were unhappy with the results of cut factory springs. Sounds like you are pretty satisfied.
Russell
Russell
03-08-2016, 03:10 PM
#4
You mentioned the other day that you thought the MM spacers may have been a bit too much. If starting over, would you use a slightly smaller spacer in the rear to pair with a less aggressive drop than they were likely originally designed for?
I've done plenty of suspension work on my other cars, but have not touched the V and am unfamiliar with where everything's at. How long did the project take?
Car looks awesome and is exactly what I'm looking for. I guess I can sell my spare set of front shocks now that I won't be doing a perch relocation.
I've done plenty of suspension work on my other cars, but have not touched the V and am unfamiliar with where everything's at. How long did the project take?
Car looks awesome and is exactly what I'm looking for. I guess I can sell my spare set of front shocks now that I won't be doing a perch relocation.
03-08-2016, 03:57 PM
#5
You mentioned the other day that you thought the MM spacers may have been a bit too much. If starting over, would you use a slightly smaller spacer in the rear to pair with a less aggressive drop than they were likely originally designed for?
I've done plenty of suspension work on my other cars, but have not touched the V and am unfamiliar with where everything's at. How long did the project take?
Car looks awesome and is exactly what I'm looking for. I guess I can sell my spare set of front shocks now that I won't be doing a perch relocation.
I've done plenty of suspension work on my other cars, but have not touched the V and am unfamiliar with where everything's at. How long did the project take?
Car looks awesome and is exactly what I'm looking for. I guess I can sell my spare set of front shocks now that I won't be doing a perch relocation.
It's pretty easy - you'll need an angle grinder that accepts a cutting wheel. Some of the cheap ones don't, only thicker grinding wheels. My $60 Milwaukee unit from Home Depot worked great. At least with my hotchkiss sway bars, you'll have to disconnect the sway bar end links in the rear to to allow the lower shock mount to drop down enough to get the spring out - you may have to wrestle it a bit or use a jack to compress it a bit. The front is standard strut stuff, I also recommend disconnecting one end of sway bar link to help get the stock strut out - it'll be under pressure and wedge itself in there if you don't allow the LCA to drop more. Also hope your end links aren't corroded and strip out on you - took me a long time to deal with those in the back, and I replaced them after. Just know that you'll need spring compressors to get the upper mount back on. No need to compress them when taking the strut top nut off - it's not under that much pressure just put a towel over it and have it on the ground as it will pop the nut out a ways. When re-installing cut spring you need to pay attention to aligning the lower strut mount with the top mount so everything lines up - the lower mount doesn't spin like some models to help line up the bolt holes.
Otherwise it is all relatively easy stuff if you like working on it. Use a jack stand and then use your jack help installing and lining things up. Change your front sway bar bushings when you're in there... my poly ones are loose so I gotta get back in there.
03-08-2016, 06:19 PM
#6
I actually set up my MM spacers in a different way to keep the top of the shock bolt closer to the 2" mark. The top sleeve typically found right under the shock nut I located on the underside as opposed to the top side. I don't have a good picture of it, but it seems to work just fine and doesn't cause the extra drop as mentioned. I also have a 3/8" rubber spacer under the rear H&Rs (The "Ed Mod"). My rear ride height is consistent and closer to even with the rear tire.
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03-09-2016, 01:44 PM
#12
TECH Enthusiast
FYI with regards to the nivomat shocks.
If you let the car sit the rear nivomat shocks will bleed down over a period of 8hrs depending on how the car is loaded. To get the proper ride height measurements you need to take the measurements right after you've driven around the block over a few bumps to have them pumped up. That's the height you will be driving around on.
If you let the car sit the rear nivomat shocks will bleed down over a period of 8hrs depending on how the car is loaded. To get the proper ride height measurements you need to take the measurements right after you've driven around the block over a few bumps to have them pumped up. That's the height you will be driving around on.
03-09-2016, 10:00 PM
#13
FYI with regards to the nivomat shocks.
If you let the car sit the rear nivomat shocks will bleed down over a period of 8hrs depending on how the car is loaded. To get the proper ride height measurements you need to take the measurements right after you've driven around the block over a few bumps to have them pumped up. That's the height you will be driving around on.
If you let the car sit the rear nivomat shocks will bleed down over a period of 8hrs depending on how the car is loaded. To get the proper ride height measurements you need to take the measurements right after you've driven around the block over a few bumps to have them pumped up. That's the height you will be driving around on.
03-09-2016, 11:12 PM
#14
TECH Enthusiast
If you go and put a bunch of stuff in your trunk you'll see that the rear will drop in height statically. If you drive around the block it should be raised back to your new "normal lowered" ride height for at least 8 hours, at which point they will lose their pressure and bleed back down until pumped up again by driving again.
The stance of your car looks good! I wish they would have knocked the inch off from the factory!
03-11-2016, 08:40 AM
#16
TECH Fanatic
By reducing the number of active coils, you've effectively reduced the spring rate making the spring defect more to achieve the same load rate. You've explained the process very well, and your car looks really great, but just so it's understood that there's a trade off to get the car lower. The price is a softer ride with a greater chance of the springs being bottomed out (i.e. fully compressed) on a bump.
03-11-2016, 09:42 AM
#18
TECH Enthusiast
By reducing the number of active coils, you've effectively reduced the spring rate making the spring defect more to achieve the same load rate. You've explained the process very well, and your car looks really great, but just so it's understood that there's a trade off to get the car lower. The price is a softer ride with a greater chance of the springs being bottomed out (i.e. fully compressed) on a bump.
By reducing the number of coils in his case you are Increasing the spring rate and the load is unchanged.
You can reference this article below with actual calculations proving the fact.
https://www.eatondetroitspring.com/c...-calculations/
03-11-2016, 10:01 AM
#20
TECH Enthusiast
The more coils you cut the worse the shock conditions will get. Since you didn't really lop off that much on your setup you are probably still in the realm of tolerable performance, just know it could be optimized better with an adjustable shock that's designed for the lower amount of travel and stiffer spring rate you now have.