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We may as well start hashing this out. If and when I ever need to do the engine in mine, I'll be taking it out the bottom so a cradle swap could be warranted in that kind of scenario....
My interest in this was originally peeked but Fuzzylogic but barrok69 seemed to confirm that the front cradle bolt pattern is the same between the two cars in the thread below...
So, a few of questions I have right off the bat....
One, if the LCAs seem to be roughly the same between the V1 and the V2, why would the V2 aluminum spindle be taller than the V1 spindle? Are the V2 shock towers taller than the V1? I like the work Fuzzy and Naf did on their V2 spindle swap and if suspension travel wasn't compromised by the added height of the V2 spindle, I'd be all over it...I drive to much to worry about it.
Second, it looks like the V2 cradle has extra chassis "tie ins" that couldn't help but add additional stiffness to the car...Anybody ever seen how these are tied into the V2 body?
Third, could you use the V2 motor mounts and is the engine in the V2 further back or lower in the car to help accommodate the V2 blower than in the V1? There seems to be an extra inch or so to move the engine back in the V1 and I certainly doubt this would upset brake, AC or electrical systems...could be wrong. Looking at the pictures above, it looks like the V2 cradle is lower profile than the V1 cradle in the oil pan area...
Fourth, are the V1 shocks and the V2 shocks the same length? I'd have no interest in adding the complexity of magnetic ride control to my V1 so I'd be swinging towards a V1 shock for this....
And finally, what happens to the steering shaft...
Obviously, there will be a little fab work needed to do this but it could be well worth the payoff...however, I need to answer these questions before going too much further with my V2 6060 and rear cradle swap...
So why not just go buy a V2? I don't want the added complexity of things like the electric parking brake etc and I like the extra leg room the V1 has because it never had to accommodate the portly 6 speed automatic. Beyond that, I'm in a financial and personal position where I don't care to show a lot of vehicular assets just now so for me, this swap could make a lot of sense.
What could be gained from this?
In a perfect world, better motor mounts, more room for a blower, lighter weight (100lbs or more I'd think) and better steering and suspension geometry. Not to mention that there are currently very low mileage V2 cradles floating around out there and all those fresh suspension and steering components would save a ton of effort and cash on rebuilding the V1 stuff....that alone could cover the cost of a v2 front cradle if you shopped it hard enough.
Not sure if the V1 has a spot for bolts to go...would need close up shots of both cars.
As for the motor mounts, yeah, the brackets are a better design, but the mounts still fail. I bought my car with 55k miles and the driver side mount was already busted. I've heard of a good amount of other people with busted driver side (and a few passenger) mounts, so it's not a perfect solution.
Thanks for the reply. Yes, the rear support bars could be easily done...don't know about the fronts. Guessing GM used the front ones to help support the added weight of the intercooler???
Also of note, you mention taller V2 spindles. I think you mean STS spindles.
I have already done the STS swap. It required the STS spindles and some upper ball joints to be pressed into the UCA. While much lighter i can't say i notice the improvement in every day driving.
What i did notice is the lack of camber adjustment around the 0 deg mark. I understand that we don't want to run 0, but just to illustrate the point the farthest positive i can go now (i am lowered) is -2.5. This value required lengthening the LCA camber slots inward (center of car) and effectively reduced my front track width. This can be overcome by spacers, but that would then likely require new studs and so on down the mod hell rabbit hole. Especially if/when something goes wrong.
Now as for the cradle swap, I know with certainty that my motor and cradle will be out this fall. So.....aside from the cost (which could likely be recouped if i needed to sell it) what do I have to risk in trying this for the weight reduction and the "newer" parts. The real gain would be if the motor can be lowered for blower clearance.
As for lowering there are some threads where it seems that at one point D3 (who had the parts from energy suspension) had motor mounts with adjustable height up to 1/2 inch lower. This would indicate that even in the V2 the motor could lower if it wasn't at a lower starting point to the V1 to start. And if the motor mounts could be made to be adjustable, there isn't any reason why we couldn't have shorter non adjustable ones made.
Sadly in the back of my mind I have a little voice that keeps telling me there may be a concern with drive line angles considering all the trouble some people have had with vibrations. This is were my experience/knowledge runs out. I AM going to try this mod, but I have no idea what lowering the motor (and perhaps the trans mount) by some value greater than 1/2 inch will do to the shaft harmonics of the 2 piece or a custom 1 piece.
....Also of note, you mention taller V2 spindles. I think you mean STS spindles....
Yes I did....thanks for the clarity on that! AFAIK, it was a lower ball joint issue than prevented the use of the V2 spindle on the V1.
Originally Posted by PLA TME
...Now as for the cradle swap, I know with certainty that my motor and cradle will be out this fall. So.....aside from the cost (which could likely be recouped if i needed to sell it) what do I have to risk in trying this for the weight reduction and the "newer" parts. The real gain would be if the motor can be lowered for blower clearance.
As for lowering there are some threads where it seems that at one point D3 (who had the parts from energy suspension) had motor mounts with adjustable height up to 1/2 inch lower. This would indicate that even in the V2 the motor could lower if it wasn't at a lower starting point to the V1 to start. And if the motor mounts could be made to be adjustable, there isn't any reason why we couldn't have shorter non adjustable ones made....
So what we're worried about now is ground clearance to the oil pan. Mine is almost even with the bottom of the V1 cradle as it is....
As far as the money goes, I think you're right. The investment for me would be about a wash when the rebuild cost of all my worn V1 parts is combined with any money I get out of the parts I'm taking off the car.
And newer parts? Fuzzy referred to "Magnasteer" which I'll assume the V2 rack has but I'd bet it needs its own ECU to function and that could be a can of worms I don't care to deal with....
Originally Posted by PLA TME
....Sadly in the back of my mind I have a little voice that keeps telling me there may be a concern with drive line angles considering all the trouble some people have had with vibrations. This is were my experience/knowledge runs out. I AM going to try this mod, but I have no idea what lowering the motor (and perhaps the trans mount) by some value greater than 1/2 inch will do to the shaft harmonics of the 2 piece or a custom 1 piece.....
I think the problems we're having with vibrations isn't so much the car but what we're doing to it. I haven't gotten a 1 piece yet that I thought was the right length and as my car is smooth in the summer and a bit rough in the winter, I'll blame the majority of the minor vibes I have left on all the poly the car has. That's one reason I would celebrate the better, although not perfect, hydraulic motor mounts of the V2...
U-joints and flex disc require alignment, CVs don't.
So what we're worried about now is ground clearance to the oil pan. Mine is almost even with the bottom of the V1 cradle as it is....
And newer parts? Fuzzy referred to "Magnasteer" which I'll assume the V2 rack has but I'd bet it needs its own ECU to function and that could be a can of worms I don't care to deal with....
The V1 and V2 show the same part number for oil pan. If you used V2 mounts (which I'm pretty sure you would have to at this point), I don't see why it would lower the pan. This is going off the assumption that all Gen IV blocks (and most Gen III) have the same bracket location. I think the only difference between LS2/3/7/A related to that is deck height, not position of mount brackets...
Also, didn't barrok say that you have to use the V2 steering rack with the cradle?
The V1 and V2 show the same part number for oil pan. If you used V2 mounts (which I'm pretty sure you would have to at this point), I don't see why it would lower the pan. This is going off the assumption that all Gen IV blocks (and most Gen III) have the same bracket location. I think the only difference between LS2/3/7/A related to that is deck height, not position of mount brackets...
Also, didn't barrok say that you have to use the V2 steering rack with the cradle?
So my take away from this is that you don't think the engine in the V2 sits lower in the car than it does for the V1? I also assumed that the LS engines had the same deck height...am I wrong?
And yes, barrok69 figures that the V2 rack is a must have in this swap. My only concern here is whether or not it does more thinking than the V1 rack. After checking them out on ebay, it looks like each rack has a 2 wire connector but that doesn't prove much these days...
So my take away from this is that you don't think the engine in the V2 sits lower in the car than it does for the V1? I also assumed that the LS engines had the same deck height...am I wrong?
And yes, barrok69 figures that the V2 rack is a must have in this swap. My only concern here is whether or not it does more thinking than the V1 rack. After checking them out on ebay, it looks like each rack has a 2 wire connector but that doesn't prove much these days...
Hmm, yeah could have sworn deck height was different, but it must be the heads. I can't definitively say if the engine sits lower or not, though. Seems to me if it uses the same oil pan and the block is the same size, it's going to match up the same, yeah?
No idea on the steering rack. It's one of those things I hope I never have to touch, haha. I did a fluid flush right when I bought it, so I hope that keeps it happy.
I thing we're speculating...hoping...that the engine might sit a little lower in the car to help with hood clearance but who knows! The engine in my V1 couldn't sit much lower without the oil pan hanging out in the wind!
What I've been trying to say is, the motor mount brackets bolt to the same spot on the LSA and the LS2/6. That means that the oil pan, which is the same, cannot physically extend below the cradle because everything else is the same dimensions.
What I've been trying to say is, the motor mount brackets bolt to the same spot on the LSA and the LS2/6. That means that the oil pan, which is the same, cannot physically extend below the cradle because everything else is the same dimensions.
If the v1 and v2 share the same oil pan, this makes sense but I'm getting different part numbers for the two.
And I get that the engine blocks all share the same mount locations but we don't know if the V2 mount locations on the cradle are the same as the v1s. A half inch could make a sizable difference here...
The Front brackets are for the radiator/cooling module. The rear are most likely for updated crash safety rating IIHS 5star stuff. I wouldn't use the rear brackets as they are usually designed to fail in such a way that certain components are directed in a specific direction during a crash. I'm guessing the V2 also got an updated higher strength floorpan too so I would stay way from integrating them into the V1. Look at it as more weight save cutting them off . I would hate to see the engine go through the cabin instead of pushing under it if somebody were to keep those braces and get into a front end collision.
The only thing I have left to verify is that the shock tower locations are the same V1 to V2.
A steering rack adapter shouldn't be a big deal. or like I mentioned earlier possibly, use V2 steering linkage. I'm not sure how the magnasteer is controlled, so that would need to be looked into more.
If you don't already have V2 calipers you'll need to run bolt sleeves with your V1 calipers in the V2 knuckles.
The Front brackets are for the radiator/cooling module. The rear are most likely for updated crash safety rating IIHS 5star stuff. I wouldn't use the rear brackets as they are usually designed to fail in such a way that certain components are directed in a specific direction during a crash. I'm guessing the V2 also got an updated higher strength floorpan too so I would stay way from integrating them into the V1. Look at it as more weight save cutting them off . I would hate to see the engine go through the cabin instead of pushing under it if somebody were to keep those braces and get into a front end collision.
The only thing I have left to verify is that the shock tower locations are the same V1 to V2.
A steering rack adapter shouldn't be a big deal. or like I mentioned earlier possibly, use V2 steering linkage. I'm not sure how the magnasteer is controlled, so that would need to be looked into more.
If you don't already have V2 calipers you'll need to run bolt sleeves with your V1 calipers in the V2 knuckles.
07-02-2017, 05:56 PM
V2 front cradle swap.... 
. I would hate to see the engine go through the cabin instead of pushing under it if somebody were to keep those braces and get into a front end collision.