Spun bearing, what to do?!
04-06-2018, 09:08 AM
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Spun bearing, what to do?! Hey all, first off I want to say thank you and I’ve enjoyed reading a ton of good info here in the ctsv group. Never had to post anything yet cause I always find what I need on here already. I am in a little bit of a pickle and need some advice.....
I bought my V a little over a year ago with about 50k miles on her and some upgrades done by the previous owner....volant CAI, kooks long tube w/corsa exhaust, not sure which big cam it has but it sure does lope, #42 injectors?, fast 92mm intake manifold, billet fuel rail, g-force halfshafts, CS motormounts/shift bushings and I just put in an LS7 LuK clutch, remote bleeder, new slave and master. It has been tuned but always ran pretty rich.
The V now has about 70k miles on the clock and I think it spun a main bearing. I don’t usually keep my driver display set on oil pressure but I noticed a weird vibration and what seemed like an exhaust leak from where the headers mate to the exhaust but only during load. So I was cycling through the driver info display and noticed at hot idle with the temps about 200*, I was seeing oil pressure at about 12-15psi. Way too low. I limped her home a short distance and began reading up on what this could be. Long story slightly shorter I think I spun a bearing and caused too much damage to the block. I haven’t ripped into the engine yet to see the damage but I see stripper glitter in my oil when I drained it. The magnetic drain plug has the metal glitter stuck to it as well. I haven’t cut the oil filter open yet to see if there’s any metal chunks but I’m expecting the worst case scenario. Trying to troubleshoot it a little after the oil change, I did a brief cold start and only saw oil psi at about 20-25...still very low to me. I reved it up to about 2k rpm and the oil pressure went up to about 30 and then at 3k rpm it rose to about 40psi. I think the oil pump seems to be working since it’s chain driven and the pressure rises with engine rpm.
My my main question is what should I do? I don’t really want to try and salvage this block and waste time and money. If the block and crank need to be repaired and machined I’m afraid it will be weaker even if I add forged components in the bottom end. I’ve been doing a bit of research on maybe swapping a new ls1 or ls3 block and crank that is already built a little from ThompsonMS or Texas-speed. From what I’ve read, I should be able to swap over my ls6 heads, headers, intake manifold, throttle body...etc right? I’m not looking for a crazy HP motor but I’m trying to re-use as much as I can from my current motor to save money and time/labor. Anyone have experience with this type of swap or configuration? I can turn a wrench but I’m no master engine builder and money is an issue. I know I will be spending at least roughly 3-4k$ on a new bottom end. What’s your opinion on motor combinations?
I bought my V a little over a year ago with about 50k miles on her and some upgrades done by the previous owner....volant CAI, kooks long tube w/corsa exhaust, not sure which big cam it has but it sure does lope, #42 injectors?, fast 92mm intake manifold, billet fuel rail, g-force halfshafts, CS motormounts/shift bushings and I just put in an LS7 LuK clutch, remote bleeder, new slave and master. It has been tuned but always ran pretty rich.
The V now has about 70k miles on the clock and I think it spun a main bearing. I don’t usually keep my driver display set on oil pressure but I noticed a weird vibration and what seemed like an exhaust leak from where the headers mate to the exhaust but only during load. So I was cycling through the driver info display and noticed at hot idle with the temps about 200*, I was seeing oil pressure at about 12-15psi. Way too low. I limped her home a short distance and began reading up on what this could be. Long story slightly shorter I think I spun a bearing and caused too much damage to the block. I haven’t ripped into the engine yet to see the damage but I see stripper glitter in my oil when I drained it. The magnetic drain plug has the metal glitter stuck to it as well. I haven’t cut the oil filter open yet to see if there’s any metal chunks but I’m expecting the worst case scenario. Trying to troubleshoot it a little after the oil change, I did a brief cold start and only saw oil psi at about 20-25...still very low to me. I reved it up to about 2k rpm and the oil pressure went up to about 30 and then at 3k rpm it rose to about 40psi. I think the oil pump seems to be working since it’s chain driven and the pressure rises with engine rpm.
My my main question is what should I do? I don’t really want to try and salvage this block and waste time and money. If the block and crank need to be repaired and machined I’m afraid it will be weaker even if I add forged components in the bottom end. I’ve been doing a bit of research on maybe swapping a new ls1 or ls3 block and crank that is already built a little from ThompsonMS or Texas-speed. From what I’ve read, I should be able to swap over my ls6 heads, headers, intake manifold, throttle body...etc right? I’m not looking for a crazy HP motor but I’m trying to re-use as much as I can from my current motor to save money and time/labor. Anyone have experience with this type of swap or configuration? I can turn a wrench but I’m no master engine builder and money is an issue. I know I will be spending at least roughly 3-4k$ on a new bottom end. What’s your opinion on motor combinations?
Last edited by 05v4me; 04-06-2018 at 09:13 AM. Reason: Oops
04-06-2018, 09:39 AM
#2
First things first: double check that your oil pressure is reading correctly. Remove and clean ALL your ground cables underhood and make sure they are replaced tightly. Consider a new oil pressure sender, just because. Very common to see low indicated OP due to these 2 reasons, especially the first. Some stripper glitter, while not optimal, may not be catastrophic. I had some in one oil change with no noises and no returning in subsequent changes. These LS6s like to burn oil and can get pretty low pretty quickly, esp with the easy revving nature. This will be exacerbated by your big cam. Not saying you don't have an issue, just run it to ground 100% before you pull the motor.
If indeed oil pressure is low and your suspicion is correct, I'd find a low mile factory longblock, throw it in there with your FAST and headers, re-tune it, and get down the road. You can get all that done with your labor easily within your budget. That will give you time to tear down and diag and rebuild your engine properly and economically and still enjoy the car in the process. Doing it any other way is going to eat money and time while your car is down. Ask me how I know...
If indeed oil pressure is low and your suspicion is correct, I'd find a low mile factory longblock, throw it in there with your FAST and headers, re-tune it, and get down the road. You can get all that done with your labor easily within your budget. That will give you time to tear down and diag and rebuild your engine properly and economically and still enjoy the car in the process. Doing it any other way is going to eat money and time while your car is down. Ask me how I know...
04-06-2018, 02:05 PM
#3
I'd be tempted to pull heads off, then yank the block, disassemble to inspect bearings, replace cam and main bearings, do some minimal cleanup, replace other wear items like timing chain and oil pump (the chain was probably replaced with the cam though, so not even necessary) then put it back together and reinstall. Don't forget the pilot bearing for the trans while it's out too. Could also be a good chance to upgrade the lifters since the cam seems like it could be high-lift along with solid bronze trunnion bushing if they're not already. It's a big can of worms, but not so bad with a little research. When you take it all apart it makes a lot more sense.
Aluminum blocks aren't cheap--no sense in tossing a perfectly good one because of bearings.
Aluminum blocks aren't cheap--no sense in tossing a perfectly good one because of bearings.
04-06-2018, 05:23 PM
#4
Bud's advice is solid. That's exactly what I would do:
1. if you have another reliable car to drive and can take your time
or
2. you sling another long block in there as I suggested and are going through it on a stand leisurely and most economically
You have to overlay your time+money+skill onto this thing and pick the route that makes more sense for your situation.
1. if you have another reliable car to drive and can take your time
or
2. you sling another long block in there as I suggested and are going through it on a stand leisurely and most economically
You have to overlay your time+money+skill onto this thing and pick the route that makes more sense for your situation.
04-06-2018, 06:39 PM
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Thanks for the advice guys. I keep searching around for replacement ls6 motors or even rebuilt ones for a decent price but it’s like finding a needle in a haystack! I’m searching for a damn unicorn over here...
So it would be way more difficult to swap in an Ls3 block and use what I can off of my ls6 and call it a day? Please school me on this! I’ve done some research and from what I found some sensors are a little tricky to get working but as far as heads, headers, intake, transmission,...it all bolts right up no? Engine mounts should be the same on another ls motor. As long as it produces about the same power I have now, I’ll be a happy camper. And while I’m enjoying a hybrid ls3/ls6 motor I can take my time dismantling/cleaning/building the old block right.
So it would be way more difficult to swap in an Ls3 block and use what I can off of my ls6 and call it a day? Please school me on this! I’ve done some research and from what I found some sensors are a little tricky to get working but as far as heads, headers, intake, transmission,...it all bolts right up no? Engine mounts should be the same on another ls motor. As long as it produces about the same power I have now, I’ll be a happy camper. And while I’m enjoying a hybrid ls3/ls6 motor I can take my time dismantling/cleaning/building the old block right.
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04-07-2018, 09:20 AM
#8
He ls3 swap isn't bad. The things that would be different if you get a ls3 short block.
The crank would have a 58x reluctor vs the 24x that's needed. If you get an aftermarket crank you can keep the 24x. If not you'll need to run a lingenfelter control box to convert the 58x to a 24x signal.
The knock sensors move from under the valley cover to sides of the block by the oil pan (drilling and tapping the factory ls3 holes to fit the ls6 style sensor). An extension harness is required.
The cam sensor moves to the front and utilizes a ls2 style front cover. An extension harness is required, some even integrate with the knock sensor extension for a clean install.
If the ls3 you get has a cam, you'll need to swap to a three bolt cam and be sure to use the single pole ls2 style cam gear.
The valley cover is different, you'll need a newer style ls3 valley cover.
Everything else, like alternator, ac compressor, water pump all bolt up to the ls3 block. You could even keep your heads and run cathedral ports on it if you're trying to keep within a budge since you have all that already. Otherwise it's ls3 heads, new intake, fuel rails, etc etc.
It just depends what you want out of the car and how long you plan to keep it. Rebuilding the ls6 is an option, it won't be weaker. Adding forged components is nice, but not required.
The crank would have a 58x reluctor vs the 24x that's needed. If you get an aftermarket crank you can keep the 24x. If not you'll need to run a lingenfelter control box to convert the 58x to a 24x signal.
The knock sensors move from under the valley cover to sides of the block by the oil pan (drilling and tapping the factory ls3 holes to fit the ls6 style sensor). An extension harness is required.
The cam sensor moves to the front and utilizes a ls2 style front cover. An extension harness is required, some even integrate with the knock sensor extension for a clean install.
If the ls3 you get has a cam, you'll need to swap to a three bolt cam and be sure to use the single pole ls2 style cam gear.
The valley cover is different, you'll need a newer style ls3 valley cover.
Everything else, like alternator, ac compressor, water pump all bolt up to the ls3 block. You could even keep your heads and run cathedral ports on it if you're trying to keep within a budge since you have all that already. Otherwise it's ls3 heads, new intake, fuel rails, etc etc.
It just depends what you want out of the car and how long you plan to keep it. Rebuilding the ls6 is an option, it won't be weaker. Adding forged components is nice, but not required.
04-07-2018, 01:10 PM
#9
Aluminum blocked engines cost a good bit more than a gen 3 cast iron lq9 and only weigh 75lbs less...not worth the extra cash if you’re on a budget...you won’t need a reluctor wheel swap and you can bolt ls3 heads to an lq9 or lq4
but, there’s this...https://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-...ock-cts-v.html
but, there’s this...https://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-...ock-cts-v.html
04-08-2018, 04:29 AM
#10
Staging Lane
FWIW, I've thought about what I'd do in the instance of a bottom end failure like what you think you may have. If the block was salvageable I'd probably throw in a stroker kit if it was in my budget at the time. Or polish up the crank, new bearings, bore it out a bit while you're there, and send her. Figure out what cam you're running and maybe freshen up the valve springs if you don't know the history of the swap.
04-08-2018, 11:45 AM
#11
For my performance cars, I keep spare engines on the shelf. I've never had one of mine fail, but I see other people do things like cam swaps and trash their engines because of filthy workmanship.
Everything Depends on budget. I am going to assume you have the least amount of $$ to spend so I will recommend the cheapest thing to get you back on the road. Find the lowest mileage stock engine that you can, and treat it like a heart surgery patient, sterile and clean inside if you open it. Follow service manual procedure. And it should last a long time after that as long as you don't hand it off to anybody for anything. Like machine work, heaven knows I've sent 10 of the same blocks out for machine work and gotten 10 different things back from 10 different places. And none of it was any f@!&$ good.
Everything Depends on budget. I am going to assume you have the least amount of $$ to spend so I will recommend the cheapest thing to get you back on the road. Find the lowest mileage stock engine that you can, and treat it like a heart surgery patient, sterile and clean inside if you open it. Follow service manual procedure. And it should last a long time after that as long as you don't hand it off to anybody for anything. Like machine work, heaven knows I've sent 10 of the same blocks out for machine work and gotten 10 different things back from 10 different places. And none of it was any f@!&$ good.
04-08-2018, 04:29 PM
#14
whats your location? any good machine shops local? i think first things first would be to check the oil again after an oil change, put on a mechanical oil pressure gauge. if it all seems like its gone bad, tear it down first, and see how bad the damage is. no point in going to the expensive route when you can repair it for cheap.
04-08-2018, 10:04 PM
#16
When I go to put a engine together, it is ideal to start with an engine you owned and maintained, but if not, you try to get one that is all original and never been apart. The original front cover gasket, head gaskets, cam, lifters, etc... and try to get a service record. Because the only other thing people usualy do is visually inspect it, which doesn't tell the whole story.
04-09-2018, 08:15 AM
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I’m located in Fredericksburg Virginia. Still not sure what to do at this point...so many ways to go with rebuild. I’m a pretty mechanically inclined person but I’m not sure I would have the complete know how, right now anyway, to tear the whole engine down and piece it back together without it taking me an entire year. I just want something swapped in there as easy as possible for now so I can take my time to dismantle and rebuild, if possible, the ls6. So as far as swaps are concerned to perhaps a lq9 iron block...could I still use the entire top end from ls6 and keep all the sensor locations, accessories the same? I can already hear myself complaining about having to get the tap and dye set out to change up sensor location for an ls3 swap. I don’t mind adding a bit of weight as long as it makes it nice and easy and cheap! I’ll spend money and rebuild the ls6 with the nicer Parts and throw that back in when I’m finished. I could always use a spare motor for an old 80’s grand wagoneer I’m doing a slow restoration on. So if I can’t find a complete ls6 bottom end, either a low mileage or rebuilt than what’s the absolute easiest swap out there?
04-09-2018, 10:38 AM
#19
X10000
I went to car-part.com
Found the first crashed 5.3 in an escalade on the list,
called the place, it has 88,000 miles come look, okay,
I look at it. Gorgeous original engine in a crashed truck. perfect. How much?
$800
Thats one.
Next engine I cared even less, called the next place about a gen3 5.3, they said "how much you want to give us for it?" I was like err $400? He said sure NP and delivered it to my door.
Thats two.
Bought one from ebay for $450 shipped it came rusty and had a bad head gaskets. Ebay sends back 100% refund and the guy refuses to pick up the engine.
Thats three.
In three days I had acquired three engines, most expensive iron 5.3 was 800 cheapest was free. All of them delivered to my door. And all of them support 600+ horsepower the way they sit, more or less., according to what you read.
I went to car-part.com
Found the first crashed 5.3 in an escalade on the list,
called the place, it has 88,000 miles come look, okay,
I look at it. Gorgeous original engine in a crashed truck. perfect. How much?
$800
Thats one.
Next engine I cared even less, called the next place about a gen3 5.3, they said "how much you want to give us for it?" I was like err $400? He said sure NP and delivered it to my door.
Thats two.
Bought one from ebay for $450 shipped it came rusty and had a bad head gaskets. Ebay sends back 100% refund and the guy refuses to pick up the engine.
Thats three.
In three days I had acquired three engines, most expensive iron 5.3 was 800 cheapest was free. All of them delivered to my door. And all of them support 600+ horsepower the way they sit, more or less., according to what you read.
04-09-2018, 11:37 AM
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And while I agree with your comments about contamination in general, it seems to me that in actual practice failures caused by previous contamination are exceptionally rare. There are a **** tons of rebuilt engines out there running just fine.