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Cam sensor fault 6014, start issue sometimes

 
Old 12-11-2018, 05:35 AM
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Default Cam sensor fault 6014, start issue sometimes

I have a 2000 5.3, 6014 box, carbed. Has a cam sensor fault. New sensors, 2 new boxes tried. Runs like a stripped *** ape, but has a cranking issue. 1 out of 4 times it backfires while cranking, let off the button, hit it again and it starts fine. Itís been doing this since the swap. It actually quit firing all together, so I ordered a new ignition box, still wouldnít fire. Changed all the coils and it now is back to running fine but still has the crank issue. Any ideas as to why it would have killed the coils or why it has the cam sensor fault and the crank issue? Grounds are top notch. Iíve messaged msd multiple times with no response, talk about **** pour service to say the least. Iím stumped....
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Old 12-11-2018, 08:08 AM
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Main question, what cam sensor do you have installed? My dealings with the exact same issue led me to the fact that the MSD box almost always WILL NOT read an aftermarket cam sensor. It has to be a genuine GM sensor.

That said, I finally converted to a front cam sensor setup and it works great and reads the cam sensor every time, now. The early Gen III engines use the 1X cam gear from a 2004 GTO, and a front timing cover for any Gen IV engine. I got all my stuff from BTR.

Front cover --> https://www.briantooleyracing.com/ls...-12633906.html
Timing gear--> https://www.briantooleyracing.com/ls...-12576407.html

I actually have the timing gear. I ordered it to make the conversion, but my timing chain was stretched, so the machine shop ordered a Cloyes double roller setup.
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Old 12-11-2018, 09:04 AM
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Thank you for the response! I cut no corners, crank and cam sensors are both ac delco. Has a stage 2 gm hot cam directly from gm as well. I will try another new cam sensor, if that doesnít work, I guess I can try moving the setup to the front of the engine. I have read so many threads with similar issues, (minus the killed coils) but no one seems to reply with what, if anything, remedied the issue. I donít expect to just jump online and find the answer to my problems, but after spending so much time and money on parts that I just assumed would fix it, I have no where else to turn to for knowledge. It seems so simple, plug and play, but itís been a real headache to this point.
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Old 12-11-2018, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Riley View Post
Thank you for the response! I cut no corners, crank and cam sensors are both ac delco. Has a stage 2 gm hot cam directly from gm as well. I will try another new cam sensor, if that doesnít work, I guess I can try moving the setup to the front of the engine. I have read so many threads with similar issues, (minus the killed coils) but no one seems to reply with what, if anything, remedied the issue. I donít expect to just jump online and find the answer to my problems, but after spending so much time and money on parts that I just assumed would fix it, I have no where else to turn to for knowledge. It seems so simple, plug and play, but itís been a real headache to this point.
I did some extensive research on my own with little results. Even MSD couldn't help me much. The bad part is that I used a 6010 box without a single issue for nearly 5 years. I switch to the "better" 6014 box, and had tons of issues.
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Old 12-11-2018, 03:52 PM
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A malfunctioning cam sensor will cause exactly the problem you are seeing. Cam sensor is only needed to start the motor, not once it is running.

I would guess wiring. Did you swap out the harness when you swapped boxes? Some people have had to add resistors across the cam sensor wires, I'm not sure why, but sure you have read the threads. Also the outer wires are swapped between the early and later sensors. The LS2 extension harness did this swap. The cam sensor itself has labels in the connector for the wires.

By the way, I have read dozens of threads of people who have swapped out a cam sensor but honestly don't think I have read one where swapping a cam sensor fixed anything.

You shouldn't have to do all this trial and error replacing parts. The MSD software should tell you if it is getting a cam signal.

How do you know the coils are dead? I assume you used a voltmeter to ensure they are getting power correctly. You can test the coils individually by hooking them to 12V and triggering them with a 9V battery. It is possible swapping the coils just fixed some connector problem. Check your harness over carefully. Lots of threads with mixed up harness wires, bad connections and wires shorting out in some fashion.
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Old 12-11-2018, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Pop N Wood View Post
A malfunctioning cam sensor will cause exactly the problem you are seeing. Cam sensor is only needed to start the motor, not once it is running.

I would guess wiring. Did you swap out the harness when you swapped boxes? Some people have had to add resistors across the cam sensor wires, I'm not sure why, but sure you have read the threads. Also the outer wires are swapped between the early and later sensors. The LS2 extension harness did this swap. The cam sensor itself has labels in the connector for the wires.

By the way, I have read dozens of threads of people who have swapped out a cam sensor but honestly don't think I have read one where swapping a cam sensor fixed anything.

You shouldn't have to do all this trial and error replacing parts. The MSD software should tell you if it is getting a cam signal.

How do you know the coils are dead? I assume you used a voltmeter to ensure they are getting power correctly. You can test the coils individually by hooking them to 12V and triggering them with a 9V battery. It is possible swapping the coils just fixed some connector problem. Check your harness over carefully. Lots of threads with mixed up harness wires, bad connections and wires shorting out in some fashion.
Thanks again for the replyís! I did buy the coil, cam, crank, temp harness when I bought the second box. It came with both harnesses for the front and rear mounted cam sensor as did the kit when I bought it originally. I have swapped that harness and box, and been thru every inch of the other harness pigtails included. As for the coils, it has the round style, every single coil puts out a yellowish orange spark instead of blue. But when I put the new coils on, itís always blue. Iíve swapped back and forth thinking the same thing you were, bad connection, but the yellowish orange spark never changes in the original set. When I said quit firing in the first post, I actually meant firing up or starting. It still had spark, just not enough to fire the engine. And I can never make the new coils spark yellow instead of blue. The software is showing cam sensor signal, just pops up a cam sensor fault. One box sets it off immediately when the starter engages, the other, it takes a few revolutions of the engine. With the sensor unplugged totally, it always trips the no cam signal, not the cam sensor fault.

Last edited by Mike Riley; 12-11-2018 at 06:08 PM.
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Old 12-17-2018, 07:19 AM
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So, over the weekend I worked extensively on this ignition system. Went thru the entire system, painstakingly removed all of the pins from each pigtail, conducted continuity tests on every wire, inspected every inch of wiring. Used electrical jelly on every connector. I have ruled out the wiring, box, sensors, and coils. Swapped every component from a buddies car that runs perfectly fine, and We put all of mine on his. His still started fine, and mine didnt. I pulled the front off the engine, new timing chain has significant slack, more than I would expect, but dots line up perfectly. After all the troubleshooting, Iím down to the gm stage 2 camshaft reluctor maybe having an issue. Looks fine thru the cam sensor hole, but I am going to go ahead and swap to the front mounted cam sensor. I feel itís the last option for attempting to remedying the issue. Slick 68, as you recommend from the beginning. I will update as soon as the conversion is complete. If that is the issue, For what the camshaft and springs cost me, Iíd expect perfection from gm. I hope it fixes the issue. Been beyond frustrating.....
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Old 12-17-2018, 08:40 AM
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Is there any chance that you have a 58 tooth reluctor on your crank? If so that might be the problem if you are trying to use the back cam sensor. The box may be recognizing the 58 if its on auto and your using the wrong cam sensor. Not sure if you can put them in manually or not. So as been already stated, going to the front cover cam sensor should do it if it is a 58 tooth. Otherwise please post up what you found. We just went to a 6014 ourselves because our 6012 fried for some reason. MSD must have realized the grounding problem because they added a second ground to the 6014 harness so that each one goes to each head eliminating the need for the jumper between heads. The 6014 is way more advanced than the 6010 or the 6012. If fact those both have been discontinued.
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Old 12-22-2018, 12:49 PM
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Here is a video of the slack in the chain, new set, but seems like too much to me. Dots line up fine, patently waiting for front cover conversion to arrive.
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Old 12-24-2018, 10:26 AM
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Sounds like you are on the right path. If the box says no cam signal than you will keep having issues until it sees one. The reluctor is all that is left.

Not that this will help you but I wonder why GM didn't go to a design that doesn't need a cam sensor. Ford's EDIS system doesn't use one, they instead fire two plugs at the same time (wasted spark). I wonder if it is possible to rewire the harness to a wasted spark configuration. That way the cam sensor wouldn't matter, each cylinder would always get a spark when it needed one. Might be a useful hack for situations like yours.
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