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Sealed Crate Engine Lsx Class

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Old 10-17-2013, 03:50 PM   #41
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Yeah Coyote Stock is biased towards manual transmissions, which I think doesn't work for LSX racers. Though it were only up to me, I'd let the T56 guys lighter than the auto guys.

I was reading over some CS stuff and they reserved the right to swap the pcm out randomly which I thought was kinda cool.

Also looks like the CS package comes with the fuses and wiring. I would just wonder about the non-4th gen guys on this.... That and the oil pan. Would need a swap pan under there for other GM cars. Maybe 2 part numbers, one for 4th gen oil pan and the other one is universal.

I would like to see C/S and this potential LS/S have the ability to race each other at a race or two (just my personal wish) like at the Superbowl.
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Old 10-17-2013, 04:15 PM   #42
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My combo would definitely be a manual trans regardless of a weight break. If we have someone like Scoggin Dickey build them they will have a multitude of oil pans available to them. So just have that as an option on the order form. The harness will be tricky to line out on factory LS1 cars. We will have to figure out if the engine will be 24x or 58x.

Im ready to do this NOW!! LOL. Ive wanted this to happen for a few years now. I hope we can iron out the details and make it a reality.
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Old 10-17-2013, 04:54 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by nmass399 View Post
they look to be .3 to .5 behind from the manual. Not sure if its on 60ft or such a drain in power. Their mph is pretty far behind so i assume its power drain from the trans.
I seen your in Hattiesburg the man you need to talk to is at mitchel racing in petal I use to work there . He is a nesmith builder for the this same class in dirt track racing. The only thing that is not sealed is the valve covers . They even run the ls3 motor in some of these cars it's a great class and I think you have a great idea
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Old 10-17-2013, 05:36 PM   #44
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Old 10-17-2013, 05:55 PM   #45
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The harness is a problem, if were going to make tho more than a f body race... But some 5th gen and Vette guys aren't going to want to run a new harness in there car. Idk I'm sure it'll get ironed out. My names Joey Moore btw
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Old 10-17-2013, 09:21 PM   #46
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I am sure the crate engines will be 58x and the pcm/harness will be similar to what the e-rod is supplied with. A simple to hook up swap style harness with a drive by wire pedal included. This is not really about vette guys, gto guys, fifth or fourth gen guys. This is about an affordable heads up class for racing guys !
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Old 10-17-2013, 11:59 PM   #47
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I seen your in Hattiesburg the man you need to talk to is at mitchel racing in petal I use to work there . He is a nesmith builder for the this same class in dirt track racing. The only thing that is not sealed is the valve covers . They even run the ls3 motor in some of these cars it's a great class and I think you have a great idea
Thanks for the info man i was not aware that he did that. I take no credit for coming up with the idea, just want to get the idea out there to all interested.
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Old 10-18-2013, 07:28 AM   #48
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I've read all the posts, and I would also like to see a budget heads up class as well. IMO do you guys really see having to spend around $10k for a engine alone being a truly budget oriented class? Why not do a class around STOCK cylinder heads, and stock blocks? Put weight on the Ls7/bigger ci applications. This would allow in a wide variety of "budget" racers.
[email protected] and I had a discussion last night on FB and I was viewed as being negative toward a crate class. I personally feel as if the "crate" stuff is still a little expensive for the budget oriented racer. I have saw the dirt late model classes with the crate style engines be dominated by the guys who can spend big money to have their crates "cheated up".
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Old 10-18-2013, 08:09 AM   #49
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Chevrolet Performance has listened to their customers, and are actively persuing to create the class for 2014. Let's keep our fingers crossed!

Hopefully an automatic will be competitive with the LS combination.
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Old 10-18-2013, 08:13 AM   #50
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Quote:
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I've read all the posts, and I would also like to see a budget heads up class as well. IMO do you guys really see having to spend around $10k for a engine alone being a truly budget oriented class? Why not do a class around STOCK cylinder heads, and stock blocks? Put weight on the Ls7/bigger ci applications. This would allow in a wide variety of "budget" racers.
[email protected] and I had a discussion last night on FB and I was viewed as being negative toward a crate class. I personally feel as if the "crate" stuff is still a little expensive for the budget oriented racer. I have saw the dirt late model classes with the crate style engines be dominated by the guys who can spend big money to have their crates "cheated up".
I still think you are missing the point of this class. It isn't supposed a "budget" class. If is just a cheaper form of heads up racing that doesn't require a $100,000.00 racing budget... Policing a "stock" head class would be much more difficult than a sealed crate motor class. You would have an infinite number of combinations to keep up with and then you will be really chasing the money guys with aluminum rod, 15:1 LS7 motors (that is what I would build for that kind of loose rule class).

The proposed sealed crate engines could have breakaway fasteners to prevent someone getting inside and reassembling the engine. I know the breakaway fasteners have been used in the circle track engines as well but they are carbureted. A sealed and locked ECM calibration should level the field because a "cheated up" motor would need to be tuned differently.
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Old 10-18-2013, 08:29 AM   #51
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I guess I was thinking too "budget". Hopefully it will get great support. I do like what John said about randomly making people change out ECM's.
Yes, an aluminum rod Ls7 would do good, and I agree it might be hard to police so many different combinations. You could also place a cap on the class. If you have someone who breaks the cap they carry more weight. If they break it in the final round to win, they carry weight the next race. We have a class called cheap street here and it works in a similar fashion. It has had great success.
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Old 10-18-2013, 08:41 AM   #52
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I would make a giant effort to be in name Zach Gregory! I would sell my engine and whatever to be in this class. Also I am a m6 guy.
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Old 10-18-2013, 08:53 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matchstick View Post
I've read all the posts, and I would also like to see a budget heads up class as well. IMO do you guys really see having to spend around $10k for a engine alone being a truly budget oriented class? Why not do a class around STOCK cylinder heads, and stock blocks? Put weight on the Ls7/bigger ci applications. This would allow in a wide variety of "budget" racers.
The problem with this would be a car from NHRA Stock or Super Stock could easily come and win. I know a guy personally who's stock headed, unported FAST with stock TB, and stock cube LS1 went 9.7X in Memphis last weekend.
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Old 10-18-2013, 10:34 AM   #54
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Matchstick - I can definitely see your side of this... As much as most of us would rather do Heads up racing it is very hard to justify a Sealed Longblock stuck with X PCM class. But it does level the playing field. Personally I don't think the LSX crowd should follow the Coyote Stock NMRA rules to the "T"... The LSx crowd of enthusiast covers a Much wider area at the moment with different setups for different platforms, So why not let GMPP and the LSx crowd shine??

1: Ditch the Rules of GM Body only (If they spent the coin to get the sealed crate they are obviously a GM enthusiast, beside your going to require a fox body to run a GM Perf sticker and all the other contingency decals all over their car anyway.)

2: Must have a Headliner. WTH for?? If the car weighs xxxx at the scales I would careless.

3: MAF must be 8" off the Throttle Body. Going to be a tuff spec to meet with a Fbody

4: Only Auto Trans allowed is a C4 (this case Th350). Amend to Any GM Trans is allowed, this should keep Liberty 5 speeds and Lenco out.

5: Maybe contact Holley EFI to look into the PCM issue. (This would allow people a decent investment into a PCM that is VERY capable, HP EFI for instance, this way if the do decide to get out of the class or move up into Real Street they will have a PCM that would fit the bill well.)

6: possibly 2 different sealed intake options. (I'm going to Tie this into the Holley HP EFI) 1 single plane, 1 LS3 style. Both will be using the same cam shaft, both on the same timing and tune up. This would open the door for carb guys to get in with something like the Holley Terminator EFI.

#6 is really questionable but it brings the possibility to see a larger car count. The LSx market has a HUGE aftermarket. And in a spectator stand point it would be more entertaining to me to see Jeremy Jones with a Traditonal LS3 intake running door to door with someone using a single plane Holley Terminator system in a Fox Body with a 2004R Trans. Both powered by the same Sealed Longblock.

Last edited by 06X6spdGTO; 10-18-2013 at 10:48 AM.
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Old 10-18-2013, 10:56 AM   #55
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Having also organized races myself going to back 2001 - 2006, this class idea that matchstick mentioned was something we did but folks would still push the envelope.

For a class like LS/S if it happened, the transmission list and the allowed transmission mods would need some thought put into the rules.

2ton are you that Impala guy? Cool car never had a chance to check it out.

Last edited by Pro Stock John; 10-18-2013 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 10-18-2013, 11:13 AM   #56
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To bad you can't trust anybody!! I see the class as you buy the engine and PCM and harness, set race weight, pick your Trans within set rules, make sure the car is legal and race! Would keep it "budget enough"
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Old 10-18-2013, 11:16 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro Stock John View Post
Having also head races myself going to back 2001 - 2006, this class idea that matchstick mentioned was something we did but folks would still push the envelope.

For a class like LS/S if it happened, the transmission list and the allowed transmission mods would need some thought put into the rules.

2ton are you that Impala guy? Cool car never had a chance to check it out.
Agreed, I could see RobZ being a top contender from the word go!

It might be a long shot, but have you seen the SGMP race coming up in November with the street light start PSJ?? Would sure make a class like this focus on Driver Skill before buying new sealed bolts off EBay.
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Old 10-18-2013, 11:24 AM   #58
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You know you're my homie LJ. But Ive gotta add my 2 cents LOL.

1.) I would love the class to be open to all chassis (considering I have a fully built fox body rolling chassis in my garage). But if GM is going to be on board to help this get off the ground it will not happen. And I would hate to see the class dominated by a bunch of fox bodies.

2.) I understand why they want a headliner. I like the idea of retaining a stock interior appearance other than racing seats and rear seat delete.

3.) I agree about the MAF rule. It is kind of splitting hairs.

4.) I agree that the transmission rules should allow any GM transmission.

5.) Also I think the controller should be a GM ECM like their EROD motors. This will keep the cost down vs buying an expensive Holley ECM that you cant even use half of the features with this class anyway. The GM ECM will work perfect and can be locked once the final calibration is loaded to prevent tampering.

6.) I don't think we should allow anything but a stock LS3 intake. If we allow a single plane people will want to carb the motors. And it will affect the power potential of the engines. I want to see what everyone can do with an equal power plant.
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Old 10-18-2013, 11:26 AM   #59
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I agree with everything Jeremy just said.
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Old 10-18-2013, 11:29 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 06X6spdGTO View Post

1: Ditch the Rules of GM Body only.

2: Must have a Headliner.

3: MAF must be 8" off the Throttle Body.

4: Only Auto Trans allowed is a C4 (this case Th350). Amend to Any GM Trans is allowed, this should keep Liberty 5 speeds and Lenco out.

5: Maybe contact Holley EFI to look into the PCM issue.

6: possibly 2 different sealed intake options. (I'm going to Tie this into the Holley HP EFI) 1 single plane, 1 LS3 style. Both will be using the same cam shaft, both on the same timing and tune up. This would open the door for carb guys to get in with something like the Holley Terminator EFI.
1. If GM is going to support this class do you really think that they would want any product other than a GM getting press? It doesn't make much marketing sense.

2. The sanctioning bodies usually like cars in entry level classes to look pretty stock.

3. No opinion. The whole air intake deal does need to be well thought out.

4. I am fine with this one, but be careful what you ask for!

5 - 6. If you throw these kinds of variable into this type of class everyone has to become a tuner or they will get left behind. At least with a sealed computer it takes away one advantage that some people might have and levels the playing field.

(I guess I type a little slower than Jeremy!)
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