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Sealed Crate Engine Lsx Class

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Old 10-15-2013, 12:20 PM   #1
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Default Sealed Crate Engine Lsx Class

Talked alot about this during the Lsx shootout and i am very interested in getting this going. I want to get names of all the people who would like to participate in this.

This will be a completely sealed crate engine class with a sealed tune. That means you will not be able to pull a valve cover, intake manifold, head ect. off these engines. This is to keep the power differences non existent.

Some rules i have seen that are worth mentioning from coyote stock in the nmra are, spec fuel, limited primary size on headers, limited transmission choices, steel torque converter, 10" minimum clutch size, oem water pump, accessory belt drives, limited rear end choices(9inch, 12bolt ect.), tire size, minimum weight(around 3200 to 3300), gm bodied ect.

About which crate engine we will use does not look to be set in stone exactly yet but i think it will be Ls3 based. Either a stock ls3 or the 515 horse version with the asa cam in it.

Was looking to keep the class in the mid to low 10's range so no one will need nhra licensce or 8 point to compete. This way you can basically buy a 6 point bolt in to go racing heads up.

Here is a link to the Coyote Stock rules in nmra class to give you some ideas of all the rules. http://www.nmradigital.com/cat/class...oyote-2013.pdf

I credit Pro Stock John for really getting me into the idea of this, i had already seen the interest from the other thread that had been started and was only kind of interested for a while.

Justin Cesler is another person really pushing for this to happen, John and Justin have already been talking to Dr. Jamie Meyer and Steve Wolcott about this and they are both interested from what i hear.

Cost of engine looking at 7000 to 10000 for the crate engine from what me and others are guessing and maybe even getting a deal for the first few that get one.

There are more just not sure who all so post up if you are interested even if you are maybe cause i want to see all who are interested in this class. Post up your interest in rules and what you think will help keep the class even. I think we need at least 20 names to really push this thing. Even if you are not interested, run it by your friends please.

Names of people who are very interested in this class
Nicholas Massengale(me)
Keith Vaughn
Brian Palcisco
Kevin Lumsden
Bryan Williams
John Costello
John Ryan
Cliff LeBlanc
Doyle Patterson
Don Baskin
Al Corda
Jeremy Jones
Daren Poole-Adams
Joey Moore
Zach Gregory
Andy Warren
Josh Perrymon.
David Rickey
Shawn Calabrese

Last edited by nmass399; 10-31-2013 at 02:46 PM.
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:50 PM   #2
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Studderin = John Costello

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Old 10-15-2013, 07:08 PM   #3
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I think this would be a great class! Im in...
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Old 10-15-2013, 08:05 PM   #4
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I think this could be pretty cool.
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Old 10-15-2013, 09:05 PM   #5
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Using a crate LSx 376??

Any chance on allowing carb or fuel injection manifolds??
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Old 10-15-2013, 09:47 PM   #6
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sound like a great idea and more affordable way into heads up lsx racing. It should be easy to convert my 4th gen f-body from bracket car to this class.
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Old 10-16-2013, 12:12 AM   #7
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Using a crate LSx 376??

Any chance on allowing carb or fuel injection manifolds??
Yes it will more than likely be a 376 ls3 style sealed crate engine, complete intake to oil pan ready to run.

I think by having a stock ls3 intake would be best because it will make it easier to fit under stock hoods on f-bodies and vettes. Also with the mass air flow sensor it would be easier to use with that intake vs trying to setup a tube for a carb style intake to fit in.

The biggest thing i see being a problem at this point is the different style oil pans required for an 4th gen f-body and for a 5th gen and up vette. I am not sure what other choices people will make on the chassis they put the engine in. There are so many different cars from gm and i am not sure what oil pan would fit what.

Last edited by nmass399; 10-16-2013 at 12:19 AM.
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Old 10-16-2013, 06:02 AM   #8
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Studderin = John Costello

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John Ryan
Hey John. It was great to talk with you at the LSX Shootout. Here is my website www.finish-line.org address. Let me know if it is beneficial to you.
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Old 10-16-2013, 07:19 AM   #9
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any word on sponsors for contingency programs
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Old 10-16-2013, 08:24 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmass399 View Post
Yes it will more than likely be a 376 ls3 style sealed crate engine, complete intake to oil pan ready to run.

I think by having a stock ls3 intake would be best because it will make it easier to fit under stock hoods on f-bodies and vettes. Also with the mass air flow sensor it would be easier to use with that intake vs trying to setup a tube for a carb style intake to fit in.

The biggest thing i see being a problem at this point is the different style oil pans required for an 4th gen f-body and for a 5th gen and up vette. I am not sure what other choices people will make on the chassis they put the engine in. There are so many different cars from gm and i am not sure what oil pan would fit what.
Something like a Vic Jr either carbed or Fuel injected would be great for the LSx swap crowd. I'm pretty sure the crate LSx 376 is designed to be carbed or fuel injected. Maybe allow 2 different intake setups??

As for oil pans I think the LSX 376 comes with just a dust cover so u can pick what fits ur application.
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Old 10-16-2013, 08:30 AM   #11
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This would be a good way to add a fair and affordable heads up all motor class. The sealed crate engine is the great equalizer. I am interested in being a part of this!

Cliff LeBlanc
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:03 AM   #12
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I don't think anything other than a stock OEM instake which is sealed would be allowed if they followed the Coyote Stock rules:

Quote:
1.19 CARBURETORS: Prohibited.
1.20 FUEL INJECTION: Stock OEM Ford Copper Head engine control Ford Racing PN# CM-12A650-A5LA computer system required. Chips and EEC computer “add-ons” prohibited. Ford EEC-IV or Ford EEC-V Speed density prohibited for all combinations. OEM engine control computer must be functional. Racers are required to run FRPP Spec tune provided by NMRA and FRPP. Random calibration check and PCM swaps can and will be performed at anytime during an event.
1.20a) THROTTLE BODY: Only OEM Stock throttle bodies permitted. Single throttle body must mount in stock location. Maximum throttle body size is 80mm 5.0LC must use unmodified, OEM-supplied stock throttle body. PCM and OB2 port must be mounted out of the reach of the driver.
http://www.nmradigital.com/cat/class...oyote-2013.pdf

Nick, Don Baskin, Al Corda and Doyle Patterson (last name right?) expressed interest at the track.
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:54 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro Stock John View Post
I don't think anything other than a stock OEM instake which is sealed would be allowed if they followed the Coyote Stock rules:



http://www.nmradigital.com/cat/class...oyote-2013.pdf

Nick, Don Baskin, Al Corda and Doyle Patterson (last name right?) expressed interest at the track.
Was just curious, didn't know if NMRA would change it up since I had seen some Carb intakes being released for the Coyote
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Old 10-16-2013, 11:05 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 06X6spdGTO View Post
Something like a Vic Jr either carbed or Fuel injected would be great for the LSx swap crowd. I'm pretty sure the crate LSx 376 is designed to be carbed or fuel injected. Maybe allow 2 different intake setups??

As for oil pans I think the LSX 376 comes with just a dust cover so u can pick what fits ur application.
To me one intake is the best idea because there will have to be more than one weight for the different intakes to keep it legal. With having two intake setups and having different weights would make it a problem to me, people would have to send the motor back to gm to get the intake swapped if they wanted(probably if the other intake is faster). Reason being its hard to get rules changed during the season and that setup would be the underdog all season or most of the season.

But with that said I know there are people who might rather have the carb intake than a stock style in there car or truck. If this becomes an issue we could get a vote on it before the final rules are made.

The crate engine will have to come with an oil pan fully installed so there would be no tampering involved. Not sure what you could do to the bottom end really but i am sure there could be something to give a performance advantage to someone.
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Old 10-16-2013, 11:19 AM   #15
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any word on sponsors for contingency programs
I think its to early to tell at this point but i think John and Justin might be able to answer that. Might have to get in touch with Steve Wolcot, i think he would be the one to really know.

Thanks to all who have posted up, anyone else looking but who has not posted go ahead and do so. The more people we have committed the more likely we will get this class and the sooner the better. Just think Gm would love to sell 30 more Crate engines than normal.

If some of you guys don't know about setting up suspension, transmission and even what stuff to buy, i have no doubt most everyone in the class would not mind giving you their best advice and even lending a hand at the races.
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Old 10-16-2013, 11:21 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmass399 View Post
To me one intake is the best idea because there will have to be more than one weight for the different intakes to keep it legal. With having two intake setups and having different weights would make it a problem to me, people would have to send the motor back to gm to get the intake swapped if they wanted(probably if the other intake is faster). Reason being its hard to get rules changed during the season and that setup would be the underdog all season or most of the season.

But with that said I know there are people who might rather have the carb intake than a stock style in there car or truck. If this becomes an issue we could get a vote on it before the final rules are made.

The crate engine will have to come with an oil pan fully installed so there would be no tampering involved. Not sure what you could do to the bottom end really but i am sure there could be something to give a performance advantage to someone.
Something like a Vic Jr that can be carbed or EFI would fit the bill...



I partial towards carbs since that's what I'm running... So if a change is mandatory so be it...

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Old 10-16-2013, 11:36 AM   #17
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It would be nice if someone could let us know the probability of this happening for next season. My plan is at this point to finish gathering parts and put my car together for real street over the winter. This would be about the same money and easier to be competitive(which I would not be in real street).

I vote for this engine! https://sdparts.com/details/chevrole...mance/19301360
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Old 10-16-2013, 01:02 PM   #18
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1.20b) MASS AIR SIZE & TYPE PERMITTED: Aftermarket mass air housing permitted on all combinations (Stock OEM, unmodified, sample tube and elements as produced from Ford required). Mass air sensor is required to be functioning. Mass Air meter must be no closer than 9 inches to the throttle body and no further than 18 inches away from throttle body.


So would these be permitted??
http://www.fullthrottlespeed.com/ite...ic=050LS1TRANS

Edit: Never mind, I read on a post on the bullet that NO AFR changes are allowed and tunes are flashed by the NMCA. So if conforming to "CS" rules the class would not be allowed a Carburetor since AFR manipulation would be easy. Nor are they allowed to run a MAF manipulator

525hp LSx376 would be awesome!!

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Old 10-16-2013, 02:20 PM   #19
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After some reading i have done I wanted to let everyone be aware of some things. I want this to be as fair as possible and let everyone know what they are getting themselves into.

This is head up racing, some and most all of what happens in heads up classes everywhere can happen in this class also.

Even tho the engine is sealed and the same as another, one will make more power than another. I think we all know this lol. So that makes for the potential of someone who can buy several of these engines just to see which one makes the most power and then use it to get an advantage.

Also i have read people will break the seals off of sealed engines to modify them then use replacement seals that they can get to reseal them. Someone can go as far as advancing the cam or doing something like that that will give extra power. Need to police this as much as possible.

Lightweight clutches and torque converters, lighter wheels, lighter axles, lighter spools ect. Even tho there are minium sizes on clutches and having a steel converter one can still get more weight off of them to help give them an advantage. Even different types of oil used in the engine can net power gains.

People are gonna push these rules regardless of what we all might think. If there is a spot in the rules that can give someone a competitive advantage you know most everytime they will take it. I think this is why we need some very very specific rules to go by to keep it even and not have the class be run off with.

With that said more time spent testing a combination and parts usually puts that combination in a better spot to be competitive. Drivers are different and will always make a difference in et and reaction times.

I hope all who want to race this class will be honest with what they do and stay to the rules. If not the class will die. I don't want this to happen and i know none of you guys want this to happen either. People can easily get discouraged if there setup is not performing and bow out of the class especially if someone is running off with the class.

Last edited by nmass399; 10-16-2013 at 02:40 PM.
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Old 10-16-2013, 02:49 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmass399 View Post
After some reading i have done I wanted to let everyone be aware of some things. I want this to be as fair as possible and let everyone know what they are getting themselves into.

This is head up racing, some and most all of what happens in heads up classes everywhere can happen in this class also.

Even tho the engine is sealed and the same as another, one will make more power than another. I think we all know this lol. So that makes for the potential of someone who can buy several of these engines just to see which one makes the most power and then use it to get an advantage.

Also i have read people will break the seals off of sealed engines to modify them then use replacement seals that they can get to reseal them. Someone can go as far as advancing the cam or doing something like that that will give extra power. Need to police this as much as possible.

Lightweight clutches and torque converters, lighter wheels, lighter axles, lighter spools ect. Even tho there are minium sizes on clutches and having a steel converter one can still get more weight off of them to help give them an advantage.

People are gonna push these rules regardless of what we all might think. If there is a spot in the rules that can give someone a competitive advantage you know most everytime they will take it. I think this is why we need some very very specific rules to go by to keep it even and not have the class be run off with.

With that said more time spent testing a combination and parts usually puts that combination in a better spot to be competitive. Drivers are different and will always make a difference in et and reaction times.

I hope all who want to race this class will be honest with what they do and stay to the rules. If not the class will die. I don't want this to happen and i know none of you guys want this to happen either. People can easily get discouraged if there setup is not performing and bow out of the class especially if someone is running off with the class.
If policing becomes an issue your next best bet is embrace the aftermarket. Instead if requiring X intake with Y tune... You let them tune there own setup and run whatever "BOLT-ONS" they want (Superchargers and Nitrous Prohibited of course)

No since in spending Years on creating a super specific set of rules with a definitive parts combinations you must run. Lets face it the oil pan issue is already a problem with different platforms taking different pans.

Is a Stock Sealed Longblock class a possibility??

I could care less if someone advances the cam, besides if they did they are all flashed with the NMCA tuner on race day, you wanna pull your oil pan off and file the rod caps down, Have at it!!!

No sense it hindering the outcome with excessive policing..

Maybe a Tire Requirement, Fuel Requirement, Weight Requirement, Stock Sealed Long Block, whatever Intake, 1.875" LTs, and exhaust you like run it.

Just throwing some ideas out there
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