carb car - fuel pump question
08-31-2009, 03:50 PM
#1
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carb car - fuel pump question I'm spec'ing out a carbed setup for a car. Car could trap 135-138mph NA.
1) What fuel pump setup would you reccomend. One datapoint is a guy I know is running an Aeromotive A1000 kinda pump. How about a Holley black pump.
2) How do the returns work with a carb setup. Is there needed a return by the fuel pump? If a return is reccomended, how would it be run and should it be -6?
3) -10 to the front sound good?
1) What fuel pump setup would you reccomend. One datapoint is a guy I know is running an Aeromotive A1000 kinda pump. How about a Holley black pump.
2) How do the returns work with a carb setup. Is there needed a return by the fuel pump? If a return is reccomended, how would it be run and should it be -6?
3) -10 to the front sound good?
08-31-2009, 04:24 PM
#2
With a Carb setup. you generally run 7-8psi.. but would need volume to be adjusted for your HP requirement.
IMO A Carb setup would not be too much different than a EFI in design.. just use the correct pump, filter and regulator for the lower pressure.
My past setups.. they have been with Holley pump(s), a Holley Regulator up near the carb(s). Many have just dead headed the regulator, others have used a return from there back to the tank. AN -6 should be more than enough size for a return. By running a return, it does decrease the load on the pump. For a Street car, I would run a return. But may not be required for a race only setup.
For what you might be trying to run, most likely -10 would most likely be your requirement.
A few of my friends with Blown (some with Tunnel Rams) BBC, SBC and Big Mopar's (440, Hemi and other Wedges engines) setups, run these simple setup just fine.
IMO.. a fuel setup designed isn't set on requirements of a Engine brand or type, but number of carbs, CID and HP output (as is a EFI, just minus the cars and use TB's).
You have gone fast enough to be around many of these sub 10 second cars. Just take a look at how simple they really are.
P.S... anyone need a body/shell or parts (keeping engine,trans and brakes), parting out a clean title 02 Z28, had minor front damage.. would be great for a track car!
IMO A Carb setup would not be too much different than a EFI in design.. just use the correct pump, filter and regulator for the lower pressure.
My past setups.. they have been with Holley pump(s), a Holley Regulator up near the carb(s). Many have just dead headed the regulator, others have used a return from there back to the tank. AN -6 should be more than enough size for a return. By running a return, it does decrease the load on the pump. For a Street car, I would run a return. But may not be required for a race only setup.
For what you might be trying to run, most likely -10 would most likely be your requirement.
A few of my friends with Blown (some with Tunnel Rams) BBC, SBC and Big Mopar's (440, Hemi and other Wedges engines) setups, run these simple setup just fine.
IMO.. a fuel setup designed isn't set on requirements of a Engine brand or type, but number of carbs, CID and HP output (as is a EFI, just minus the cars and use TB's).
You have gone fast enough to be around many of these sub 10 second cars. Just take a look at how simple they really are.
P.S... anyone need a body/shell or parts (keeping engine,trans and brakes), parting out a clean title 02 Z28, had minor front damage.. would be great for a track car!
08-31-2009, 04:54 PM
#3
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Car would be driven on the street, so I'm thinking a return would a good idea. So it's best to put the pump up front, not in back? I'm thinking 7-7.5 psi would be around where the fuel pressure would be.
08-31-2009, 05:06 PM
#4
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I would recommend the Barry Grant 280HR. The 280HR pump set up comes with a regulator and is desgned for continous duty so it is street friendly and very quiet. I have a buddy with a 70 Chevelle that wieghs 4070 pounds with him in it and it runs 9.90's at 135 with a 515 BBC and a 300 shot and he has used the BG280HR for 3 years with no issues and it sees a lot of street driving. He went thru a couple of returnless pumps before going to the BG set up--street drivng is really hard on the retrunless pumps.
08-31-2009, 05:58 PM
#5
The BG pump are a proven preformer too. (I am just old, LOL).. and no, never put a pump in the front, they are designed to pushed fuel from the back to the front and work very badly when they have to pull (suction) fuel..
Regulator can be in the front.. moving the fuel with a return line will help kept the fuel and the pump cool.
Yeah.. IMO, dead heading a pump into the regulator for a street driven car will cause premature failure due to the loading of presure.
Regulator can be in the front.. moving the fuel with a return line will help kept the fuel and the pump cool.
Yeah.. IMO, dead heading a pump into the regulator for a street driven car will cause premature failure due to the loading of presure.
08-31-2009, 06:20 PM
#6
Here is a good reference. They are a little conservative on their fuel line sizes. Typically you can get by with less
http://www.centuryperformance.com/fu...e-spg-140.html
Electric pump in the back and return style regulator is the high end solution. Can get a little pricey.
One suggestion I heard is to plumb two AN 6 pipes instead of an AN 10 since the smaller diameter pipe is much easier to work with. The site above recommends making the return pipe the same size as the supply, but seems like not many people do it that way.
I have an $85 summit 140 GPH pump and a Mallory 4207 return style regulator fed by 3/8 tubing. All fittings are Russel AN style. Works well with my 440 HP crate LS2. I started with a $250 Mallory georotor pump but that only lasted a few hours before it got scored with some build debris. The Holley pumps look just like the Summit pump, as well as a few other brands. I am not sure what the difference is other than price, They are probably all made by the same group of Chinese.
http://www.centuryperformance.com/fu...e-spg-140.html
Electric pump in the back and return style regulator is the high end solution. Can get a little pricey.
One suggestion I heard is to plumb two AN 6 pipes instead of an AN 10 since the smaller diameter pipe is much easier to work with. The site above recommends making the return pipe the same size as the supply, but seems like not many people do it that way.
I have an $85 summit 140 GPH pump and a Mallory 4207 return style regulator fed by 3/8 tubing. All fittings are Russel AN style. Works well with my 440 HP crate LS2. I started with a $250 Mallory georotor pump but that only lasted a few hours before it got scored with some build debris. The Holley pumps look just like the Summit pump, as well as a few other brands. I am not sure what the difference is other than price, They are probably all made by the same group of Chinese.
08-31-2009, 07:29 PM
#7
138 mph in the quarter is a 3000lb car w/ approx 725 hp
i would put an A1000 with -10 feed and -8 return put the pump in the tank if possible keep it quiet and cool setup always works on cars ive done in the past
i would put an A1000 with -10 feed and -8 return put the pump in the tank if possible keep it quiet and cool setup always works on cars ive done in the past
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08-31-2009, 09:24 PM
#9
I'm using a BG-220HR setup with return regulator. It's rather noisy, but I mainly bought it because it was rated for continuous duty (i.e. street use). This thing really pumps some fuel, too! Earlier this week I had to pull my sending unit for an "adjustment" and pumped out 10 gals of fuel in less than 3 minutes...
09-01-2009, 06:47 AM
#12
if your not running boost, prob a pump around 200 GPH would work, but i run an A1000, #10 feed, #8 return, with their reg(forgot the #, boost ref.)
i use a filter before and after, again cant remember the micron #'s, whatever they rec.-i run a Procharger with the carb, has plenty of fuel-if i ever switched to FI, i think i could use the same pump, diff reg., but not sure if i could run it boosted w/FI, maybe would need to change to an FI pump
back in the day, i ran a BB with a 671 blower, feed it with a Mallory 140 pump, seemed to be ok
just make sure your pump is rated for cont. use if street driven
i prefer a return style setup, helps keep the fuel cooler, easier on the pump
a #6 return might be to small, it can act like a rest., so fuel pres. may stay higher than you want
i use a filter before and after, again cant remember the micron #'s, whatever they rec.-i run a Procharger with the carb, has plenty of fuel-if i ever switched to FI, i think i could use the same pump, diff reg., but not sure if i could run it boosted w/FI, maybe would need to change to an FI pump
back in the day, i ran a BB with a 671 blower, feed it with a Mallory 140 pump, seemed to be ok
just make sure your pump is rated for cont. use if street driven
i prefer a return style setup, helps keep the fuel cooler, easier on the pump
a #6 return might be to small, it can act like a rest., so fuel pres. may stay higher than you want
09-01-2009, 08:24 PM
#13
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Seems like you guys like the a1000.... any particular part number in the jegs or summit catalogs? are they noisy?
I'm going to run this carbed setup in a 2000 z/28, so my plan is to have bungs welded into a 1998 tank which are metal. so I need two bungs right, -10 feed, and then -6 or -8 return right?
I don't want a noisy pump like say a weldon 2025, I had one once and it was annoying.
other possibility is i run a 99-02 plastic tank and run 1-2 in-tank 255 walbros, and then drop the fuel pressure down from say the stock 57psi to 7 psi with a regulator... i never knew you could do that so i am wary of that setup, seems like a big drop in fuel pressure and the pump(s) might not like it?
I'm going to run this carbed setup in a 2000 z/28, so my plan is to have bungs welded into a 1998 tank which are metal. so I need two bungs right, -10 feed, and then -6 or -8 return right?
I don't want a noisy pump like say a weldon 2025, I had one once and it was annoying.
other possibility is i run a 99-02 plastic tank and run 1-2 in-tank 255 walbros, and then drop the fuel pressure down from say the stock 57psi to 7 psi with a regulator... i never knew you could do that so i am wary of that setup, seems like a big drop in fuel pressure and the pump(s) might not like it?
09-01-2009, 08:56 PM
#14
If youre doing an external Id say -12 from the tank to the pump, and -10 forward. Depending on engine's fuel requirements and the pump size -8 or -6 return.
If you do a carb pump with a bypass, your return line goes from the pump back to the tank, with the A1000 youll need to run the return line from the regulator back to the tank.
Im running the Magnafuel ProStar 500, the bypass returns fuel back to the tank and regulates line pressure to around 25psi, then up front I have 2 - 2port Magnafuel regulators (deadheaded) that go from 4-12 psi.
If you do a carb pump with a bypass, your return line goes from the pump back to the tank, with the A1000 youll need to run the return line from the regulator back to the tank.
Im running the Magnafuel ProStar 500, the bypass returns fuel back to the tank and regulates line pressure to around 25psi, then up front I have 2 - 2port Magnafuel regulators (deadheaded) that go from 4-12 psi.
