8.1L Vortec/Allison 5sp install into 56 Ford Victoria (info Needed)
11-08-2009, 07:09 PM
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8.1L Vortec install into 56 Ford Victoria I am helping my Father in-law to install a 2002 8.1L Vortec along with an Allison 1000 5sp auto into his 56 Ford Victoria car. We are in the preliminary planning stage and I am trying to round up info as he is computer illiterate. We have a complete engine and transmission with accessories and most sensors. It looks like we are only missing a MAF and both the engine computer and Allison TCM. We are missing the engine & transmission harnesses as well as we will need a TAC throttle pedal. I am looking for a little direction to track down some of these parts. So far I have found street and performance has the harnesses and I have found the ECM for $120 and the TCM for $400 at Rock auto. I am considering purchasing EFI live V2 programing to do the programming as they seem to have programming for both the engine and the Allison as well as I can use it to program my 4.8L LR4 in my Jeep project. Does anyone have any better suggestions or directions on this part?
As for the rest of the project, the car has already had a G body front clip grafted on and has been set up for a big block Chevy. He wanted to run his big block with fuel injection and I stumble across this engine and tranny combo for cheap so we have just decided to install the whole works. I don't see any issues with the tall deck block install but the tranny is huge and I am expecting to do some serious firewall/tranny tunnel mods to get this to work. We were already going to do some big changes to the frame and custom rear suspension (currently thinking of Hotrods to Hell Truck arm Rear suspension with air bags) so I will get all that to work no problem along with crossmembers and such. We are thinking shockwave airbags for the G body suspension as well. I will build it all to fit around that huge tranny. Any suggestions for a shifter for this tranny? We have the accessory drive that came with the engine (it was a Chevy 4500 series truck) but it is really bulky and heavy. So far I am told that standard big block chevy accessories fit fine so I think we will run an older serpentine setup that he had already had planned for the Mark IV he had for the car. The only real mods we are planning for the engine are to install a Comp 270HR cam for the 8.1 as well as build a good cold air intake and run some long tube headers. I believe it will have plenty of power to move this car well, I expect an easy 475HP and 550lb/ft out of this combo. We won't actually be starting into this project for several months yet as we need to finish building a new shop but I am trying to sort out how some of it will come together and start tracking down parts. I think I will document the buildup here as it comes together. Might just have to wait a little bit yet though. Thanks for any info you guys might have.
Greg
As for the rest of the project, the car has already had a G body front clip grafted on and has been set up for a big block Chevy. He wanted to run his big block with fuel injection and I stumble across this engine and tranny combo for cheap so we have just decided to install the whole works. I don't see any issues with the tall deck block install but the tranny is huge and I am expecting to do some serious firewall/tranny tunnel mods to get this to work. We were already going to do some big changes to the frame and custom rear suspension (currently thinking of Hotrods to Hell Truck arm Rear suspension with air bags) so I will get all that to work no problem along with crossmembers and such. We are thinking shockwave airbags for the G body suspension as well. I will build it all to fit around that huge tranny. Any suggestions for a shifter for this tranny? We have the accessory drive that came with the engine (it was a Chevy 4500 series truck) but it is really bulky and heavy. So far I am told that standard big block chevy accessories fit fine so I think we will run an older serpentine setup that he had already had planned for the Mark IV he had for the car. The only real mods we are planning for the engine are to install a Comp 270HR cam for the 8.1 as well as build a good cold air intake and run some long tube headers. I believe it will have plenty of power to move this car well, I expect an easy 475HP and 550lb/ft out of this combo. We won't actually be starting into this project for several months yet as we need to finish building a new shop but I am trying to sort out how some of it will come together and start tracking down parts. I think I will document the buildup here as it comes together. Might just have to wait a little bit yet though. Thanks for any info you guys might have.
Greg
Last edited by avmechanic; 11-26-2010 at 12:23 PM. Reason: more relivent title
07-06-2010, 12:48 PM
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Finding info on this combo has been really tough. In the end we ended up selling the Allison tranny. Nobody could give us any info on installing an Allison at all. The tranny is also extremely large and difficult to fit. I would have liked to run a 4L80E, but he wants to run a TH400 to keep that part simple and he already has one. We are still going to run the 8.1L Vortec though. We have picked up the engine harness, Tac module, pedal and computer now. Wiring and engine management for the 8.1L is essentially the same as the LS based gen III engine. We are going to modify a stock harness to stand alone and do the programming with HP tuners or EFI live. He also ended up with another accessory drive for the engine out of an 8.1L 2500 chevy truck. It is a nicer accessory drive and more compact. I don't have a whole lot more to report as we are still in the planning and parts collecting phase.
Greg
Greg
07-06-2010, 05:43 PM
#4
Ah yes the allison. only place i could think of that might have info would be banks. but they dont seem to respond to emails. but i get lots of emails about there sales. I am curious what brackets you got. me personally i used mega squirt box to run the efi and the msd ls1 box to run the ignition much easier to tune and dont have to worry about vin issues. you can run a normal camaro throttlebody. But seems like you already have all the pieces 
10-09-2010, 10:09 AM
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Sorry, not much to report. We have quite a few things on the go right now so the car is back burnered till probably next summer right now. We have picked up an accessory drive for the 8.1L that is more suited for a car. This accessory drive is from a 2500 truck instead of a Topkick like we had. We also picked up a wiring harness and computer for the engine. It is a factory truck harness that we will mod into a stand alone. Tranny choices have changed a few times for the Ford. My father in law is back to wanting to run a toploader behind the 8.1L. It has been interesting. I am looking forward to putting this car together but we have two other cars to do as well. I will keep you guys posted when we actually get some significant progress.
Greg
Greg
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10-09-2010, 07:30 PM
#9
Well, just remember a std 2 piece seal 427 flywheel will bolt on the big block but you gotta use metric flywheel bolts. I would recommend a 6 speed and then run 4.11's 4.56's with that heavy car
10-09-2010, 07:31 PM
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11-26-2010, 12:13 PM
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yeah, i know you said summer, but i wanna see it..
any idea the differences in physical dimension? Is this basically just a ~500" gm tall deck? Do they use regular genIV heads?
I know those allisons are friggin massive, but it woulda been cool. Now you have a ton of options though.
any idea the differences in physical dimension? Is this basically just a ~500" gm tall deck? Do they use regular genIV heads?
I know those allisons are friggin massive, but it woulda been cool. Now you have a ton of options though.
11-26-2010, 12:24 PM
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Well, i meant the dimensions of the 8100, but i did some googlin, looks like its all gen3 more or less, but uses iron heads... I wonder if the OP/his pa-in-law will be upgrading from the factory longblock, because the intakes ive seen for the engine dont look like normal composite intakes; wondering if the geometries are the same and all the same aftermarket stuff would bolt up..
Basically, do these engines actually span from 4.8 liters to 8.1?
Basically, do these engines actually span from 4.8 liters to 8.1?
11-26-2010, 12:31 PM
#17
no 8100 is a bbc 4.250 bore 4.370 stroke with an ls1 style head on it but it is closer to a big block then anything. Tall deck. if you changed 3 head bolt locations you could bolt a older style head on it. But it wouldnt be worth the work. Everything on it is metric. Now if you had a large mill it might worth the hassle. Then you could fix the head bolts and re drill it. anything else you want to know just drop me an email
edward.coss@gmail.com
edward.coss@gmail.com
11-26-2010, 12:40 PM
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yeah, i know you said summer, but i wanna see it..
any idea the differences in physical dimension? Is this basically just a ~500" gm tall deck? Do they use regular genIV heads?
I know those allisons are friggin massive, but it woulda been cool. Now you have a ton of options though.
any idea the differences in physical dimension? Is this basically just a ~500" gm tall deck? Do they use regular genIV heads?
I know those allisons are friggin massive, but it woulda been cool. Now you have a ton of options though.
As far as the engine, it is a tall deck block so it is a little taller and wider than the mark iv it looks like it will work well though. We are going to redo the firewall and slip the engine back a little into the engine compartment. we are going to use big block Chevelle headers and they look like they will fit well. (the car has a G body GM clip grafted on the front of the frame) The heads are totally different than any other big block GM. The intake ports are spaced evenly and are more LS1 like. The exhaust ports are spaced the same, so regular headers or manifolds will fit. Overall I think it will work well. It should push the 56' Ford around just fine. They are pretty lightweight cars. Should only be in the 3300 Lb range when done. Hope to have some pictures and some real updates in the spring or summer.
Greg
11-26-2010, 12:46 PM
#19
Well, i meant the dimensions of the 8100, but i did some googlin, looks like its all gen3 more or less, but uses iron heads... I wonder if the OP/his pa-in-law will be upgrading from the factory longblock, because the intakes ive seen for the engine dont look like normal composite intakes; wondering if the geometries are the same and all the same aftermarket stuff would bolt up..
Basically, do these engines actually span from 4.8 liters to 8.1?
Basically, do these engines actually span from 4.8 liters to 8.1?
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11-26-2010, 12:50 PM
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Okay that makes more sense, considering the aftermarket just came out with big block cubes on the new platform a few years back. Cool kind of crossover though; itll be cool when its done.