LSx into a 72 Chevelle Wagon - mounting location
11-09-2010, 09:55 PM
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LSx into a 72 Chevelle Wagon - mounting location Anyone using Trans Dapt 4572 motor mount plates or similar? They claim to put the LSx in the same chassis location as the original SBC. I'm wondering if these plates would allow me to mount an LSx at the factory frame mount locations and bolt it up to my TH350 without having to shorten the driveshaft.
If this is the case, would an Fbody pan fit? This is for a 72 Chevelle Wagon. Thanks guys!
If this is the case, would an Fbody pan fit? This is for a 72 Chevelle Wagon. Thanks guys!
11-10-2010, 12:29 AM
#3
I looked at the web site for those. They are the Standard type of Plates. The plate put the engine mount in a location to mate up with the SBC (350) Frame Stands. But if using a TH350, you will have to move the trans froward about 1" to meet up with the back of the Engine. You can use the 1" setback to have the engine mate up with the TH350 in its stock location and not have to worry about transmission mounts and the drive shaft.
You can use a F-Body pan, it is tight. Use the Early BRP style and mounting method. That is moving the Frame Stand back. Else the F-Body pan will not clear the X-Member. In doing so. the Engine will be back against the firewall with about 1/4" to 3/8" and about the same for the pan to X-Member.
You can use a F-Body pan, it is tight. Use the Early BRP style and mounting method. That is moving the Frame Stand back. Else the F-Body pan will not clear the X-Member. In doing so. the Engine will be back against the firewall with about 1/4" to 3/8" and about the same for the pan to X-Member.
11-10-2010, 08:40 AM
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I looked at the web site for those. They are the Standard type of Plates. The plate put the engine mount in a location to mate up with the SBC (350) Frame Stands. But if using a TH350, you will have to move the trans froward about 1" to meet up with the back of the Engine. You can use the 1" setback to have the engine mate up with the TH350 in its stock location and not have to worry about transmission mounts and the drive shaft.
You can use a F-Body pan, it is tight. Use the Early BRP style and mounting method. That is moving the Frame Stand back. Else the F-Body pan will not clear the X-Member. In doing so. the Engine will be back against the firewall with about 1/4" to 3/8" and about the same for the pan to X-Member.
You can use a F-Body pan, it is tight. Use the Early BRP style and mounting method. That is moving the Frame Stand back. Else the F-Body pan will not clear the X-Member. In doing so. the Engine will be back against the firewall with about 1/4" to 3/8" and about the same for the pan to X-Member.
I definitely want to stick with a factory type pan for cost and reliability reasons. The car is lowered, so the Fbody pan seems like the ticket.... now how to make it fit without having to move the transmission? I guess I wouldn't mind cutting the xmember a bit if need be, but of course would prefer not to.
Last edited by austindub; 11-10-2010 at 09:13 AM.
11-10-2010, 10:36 AM
#5
Sorry to confuse you, Yes, Use the 1" setback plates, which will locate the engine to the stock TH350 trans flange location.
There are two different type of plates. the Standard (and 1" setback), they refer to them as S&P or ATS plates, which many of the manufactor (Hooker, Edelbrock, TransDap, Car Shop, etc) use and then there is the early BRP style of plates.
The templates of the plates can be found in the Sticky. see Post #4 and you can see why the Standard and BRP are differnent in there motor mount locations.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...swap-faqs.html
I only mention the BRP style if you are trying to use a Un-modified F-Body Pan. The Standard or 1" set back will require a notching of the F-Body pan or aftermarket.
With the Early BRP way of conversion, you pertty much bolt on the plates, motor mounts and frame stands together. Drop it in and bolt it to the tramssion that can already be in the car and bolted to the crossmember (or bolted to the engine for a engine/trans drop in).
Mark the location where the frame stands need to be and (remove engine) then just redrill and rebolt the stands where they need to be... or just weld them in.
Just keep asking question..! good luck.
There are two different type of plates. the Standard (and 1" setback), they refer to them as S&P or ATS plates, which many of the manufactor (Hooker, Edelbrock, TransDap, Car Shop, etc) use and then there is the early BRP style of plates.
The templates of the plates can be found in the Sticky. see Post #4 and you can see why the Standard and BRP are differnent in there motor mount locations.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...swap-faqs.html
I only mention the BRP style if you are trying to use a Un-modified F-Body Pan. The Standard or 1" set back will require a notching of the F-Body pan or aftermarket.
With the Early BRP way of conversion, you pertty much bolt on the plates, motor mounts and frame stands together. Drop it in and bolt it to the tramssion that can already be in the car and bolted to the crossmember (or bolted to the engine for a engine/trans drop in).
Mark the location where the frame stands need to be and (remove engine) then just redrill and rebolt the stands where they need to be... or just weld them in.
Just keep asking question..! good luck.
11-10-2010, 10:55 AM
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You sir, are a wealth of information. Thank you SO much!
So, if I use standard 1 inch setback plates with factory motor mounts -
The tranny will bolt right up to the motor, put the Fbody pan will hit the x-member and require some trimming to fit (trimming the x-member, not the pan I hope).
If I use BRP style plates and motor mounts -
The tranny will bolt up, but the mount itself will have to be relocated on the frame. The Fbody pan will clear the x-member (I'm assuming because it would sit higher?).
So... what is the best source for BRP style mounts, or should I just go the cheaper route and use 1 inch setback plates and trim the x member? OR, can I use the 1 inch setback plates and use tall/narrow mounts instead of short/wide mounts to lift the engine some? I'm assuming some holes wouldn't line up with that scheme.
So, if I use standard 1 inch setback plates with factory motor mounts -
The tranny will bolt right up to the motor, put the Fbody pan will hit the x-member and require some trimming to fit (trimming the x-member, not the pan I hope).
If I use BRP style plates and motor mounts -
The tranny will bolt up, but the mount itself will have to be relocated on the frame. The Fbody pan will clear the x-member (I'm assuming because it would sit higher?).
So... what is the best source for BRP style mounts, or should I just go the cheaper route and use 1 inch setback plates and trim the x member? OR, can I use the 1 inch setback plates and use tall/narrow mounts instead of short/wide mounts to lift the engine some? I'm assuming some holes wouldn't line up with that scheme.
11-10-2010, 11:07 AM
#7
Yes on the 1" setback.. people have done both on notching the pan or the Crossmember. You might look into the RetroLSX or the so to be released MAS oil plans.. I am using the early BRP and a a CTS-V pan myself..
With the BRP you place the engine where you want and that is the bottom line. The un-modified F-Body pan is a very tight fit. but it does go in. I tried it. But I didn't like the close fitting of the pan to the x-member.. I wanted a bit more clearance and air in between. So I went with the CTS-V pan, which gave me a bit more more (cooling).
BRP is no longer marketing the early style, they are now marketing a new complete kit. I was able to duplicate mine with a few hours of work. I used 1/4" plate steel, but i would recommend 3/8" or 1/2". I just used cutting wheels, grinder, files, drill and a tap.
With the BRP you place the engine where you want and that is the bottom line. The un-modified F-Body pan is a very tight fit. but it does go in. I tried it. But I didn't like the close fitting of the pan to the x-member.. I wanted a bit more clearance and air in between. So I went with the CTS-V pan, which gave me a bit more more (cooling).
BRP is no longer marketing the early style, they are now marketing a new complete kit. I was able to duplicate mine with a few hours of work. I used 1/4" plate steel, but i would recommend 3/8" or 1/2". I just used cutting wheels, grinder, files, drill and a tap.
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11-10-2010, 12:01 PM
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You mentioned that the BRP mounts let you mount the engine wherever you want, but in my case there is only one position that would work and still keep the same driveshaft length. I theory, all mounts would allow you to move the engine closer or farther from the firewall as long as you redrill the mounts on the frame.
I'm assuming that the BRP mounts set the engine higher, thus creating more room for the oil pan. If that is the case, couldn't I just use the 1 inch setback plates and raise the stock motor mounts by putting a plate under them and re-drill because the holes would be off at that point? If you have to reposition the BRP mounts on the frame anyway it seems like it would just be cheaper to use shimmed factory-style mounts or go to tall/narrow mounts from short/wide mounts. Is my logic correct?
I'm assuming that the BRP mounts set the engine higher, thus creating more room for the oil pan. If that is the case, couldn't I just use the 1 inch setback plates and raise the stock motor mounts by putting a plate under them and re-drill because the holes would be off at that point? If you have to reposition the BRP mounts on the frame anyway it seems like it would just be cheaper to use shimmed factory-style mounts or go to tall/narrow mounts from short/wide mounts. Is my logic correct?
11-10-2010, 12:26 PM
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If your primary goal is to keep the trans in the stock location, I would get a set of plates (maybe both standard and 1" set back) and see where that puts you. You may have to move the frame stands you may not, but after thats done you will need to figure out which oil pan will now clear the crossmember. The way I apporched it (may not be the best way), was I wanted to use the F-body pan and decided I would make everything fit around it.
11-10-2010, 01:17 PM
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If your primary goal is to keep the trans in the stock location, I would get a set of plates (maybe both standard and 1" set back) and see where that puts you. You may have to move the frame stands you may not, but after thats done you will need to figure out which oil pan will now clear the crossmember. The way I apporched it (may not be the best way), was I wanted to use the F-body pan and decided I would make everything fit around it.
My approach to the swap is pretty much the same - use the Fbody pan due to ground clearance and work around that + have the motor mount to the tranny without having to chop or extend the driveshaft.
For those of you that have notched your engine crossmember, did you have to weld new metal into the part you cut out, or just leave it be?
11-10-2010, 11:10 PM
#11
The plates alone will not what determines the height the engine will sit ... what will make the engine sit higher or lower is a combination of a few things.. I have found that by mixing and matching you can adjust the height of the engine as needed.
1) Adapter Plate thickness (Usually 1/4" to 1/2")
2) Motor Mounts (s/w 1 3/4" or t/n 2 3/16")
3) Frame Stand (s/w or t/n, arond 2", not sure the different bewteen the two).
4) if your using Energy Suspesion, using or not using the pre-load plate.
Warning, E/S requires it be use of the pre-load plate, but if you using a adapter plates, the plate itself will act as the pre-load plate and you can do away with it.
Some of the frame stand information have been posted here in the forum.
others have turned the plate/mount upside down to adjust it some.
I ended up using a combination of the Tall and Narrow Mounts, no preload plate and modified Short and Narrow Frame stands to get my engine the height I wanted.
1) Adapter Plate thickness (Usually 1/4" to 1/2")
2) Motor Mounts (s/w 1 3/4" or t/n 2 3/16")
3) Frame Stand (s/w or t/n, arond 2", not sure the different bewteen the two).
4) if your using Energy Suspesion, using or not using the pre-load plate.
Warning, E/S requires it be use of the pre-load plate, but if you using a adapter plates, the plate itself will act as the pre-load plate and you can do away with it.
Some of the frame stand information have been posted here in the forum.
others have turned the plate/mount upside down to adjust it some.
I ended up using a combination of the Tall and Narrow Mounts, no preload plate and modified Short and Narrow Frame stands to get my engine the height I wanted.
11-11-2010, 05:15 PM
#12
If I am reading your post correctly I don't think you can accomplish your goal. If your goal is: to install the motor so that it sits where the factory motor did (so you can use an early model trans and stock driveshaft) and use the f-body oil pan, without cutting something. I agree with bczee at looking at the retrolsx pan give you the frame clearance of the truck pan but is the same depth as the f-body pan. I am using the "swap pan" and I am a little less than impressed with it due to the height. I used the set back plates and moved my stands back about two inches, this put my passenger side head about 3/4" from the firewall. I was not concerned with the trans/driveshaft location though as I am using a t56. Hope this helps.
