Spectra efi gas tank??yay or nay???
02-11-2011, 07:44 PM
#81
This is a shot of the pan. notice the two humps, one in the front and the other towards the rear. This will be a pain in the *** to work around as the sides start to angle up as you try to fit the cylinder to the humps. Sort of a complex situation. All of this and trying to do that through the 3 1/8" hole. Its looking worse by the minute for my idea. That and you will try to use a heavy enough gage of metal that will be solid will be almost impossible. This is discouraging for sure!!!
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02-11-2011, 07:47 PM
#82
This is a site through the hole showing the pan is also offset towards the rear. This will have to be taken into consideration also. That and the filter is truned funky and the float (which can be moved around) pivots on the backside of the assembly makes for an even worse situation.
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02-11-2011, 08:00 PM
#83
With all of this to consider, I feel its not going to be worth the trouble to try the cylinder. Now if I cut this mother open I would prolly use the cylinder along with some other type of baffles throughout the tank. So I am at the same friggin crossroad I started on. I am seriously considering making a way of forcing the foam everywhere but the pan. I mean stuff this thing full from front to back and side to side. If I can control the fuel from sloshing in the tank I am sure the fuel will be stable in the pan. Thats what they make the foam for, right? I was going to say the circle track guys use it but they are using a carb and a temporary fuel loss doesnt affect them like it does on fuel injection. I do have another idea, yeah I know, here he goes again with the idea thing. Just thought about this! Volkswagen uses a sump tank that is small and has a high pressure bosch pump in it. It has a pusher pump in the fuel tank to send fuel to the sump that feeds the main pressure pump. There is a reserve of fuel in this sump or surge tank that keeps fuel to the main pump. It is connected by hoses and could be used for our application. Use the El piece O **** Spectra pump to feed the sump/surge and problem solved. The last one of these pumps I used was rated at 80 psi. Will that affect anything? I am using the Corvette filter/regulator to regulate my pressure and if I put it last in the pressure system I should be ok, right? Do you think the Spectra pump may put out to much pressure for the reserve tank?
02-12-2011, 08:08 AM
#86
Even though it is one sweet piece I refuse to pay that. Its not that I couldnt afford it it is the principle. But you are right once and done and sometimes that has a price!! Beats the crap out of trying to "jerry rig" my setup. Good luck Steve lets get that 68 a rollin'!!!
02-12-2011, 09:01 AM
#87
There is only so much you can do due to the factory shape of the tank.I think the best thing is ziz wheel a rectangluar opening in the top.You could leave one side connected and gently bend it up just enough to have working room,build a nice sheetmeatal baffel/bucket system then weld it or have it welded back.Put in a walbro pump and call it done.None of the modification will be visible because it will be on top of the tank.
02-12-2011, 11:38 AM
#89
Even though it is one sweet piece I refuse to pay that. Its not that I couldnt afford it it is the principle. But you are right once and done and sometimes that has a price!! Beats the crap out of trying to "jerry rig" my setup. Good luck Steve lets get that 68 a rollin'!!!
I'm going to do this once and not come back and have to change something to to fuel starvation, or a leak or ?????
02-12-2011, 01:22 PM
#90
I think it would help,its just a little complicated with all the extra connections for me.I like things as simple as possible.My spectra tank is allready in and working well unless you get below a1/4 tank.Its a stock ls1 cruiser,67chevelle convt. so I will leave it alone as long as it gives no more trouble than that.BUT,I am going to do a 66 chevy II with ls1or2 and six speed,it will be a little more performance orintated.I will do the mods I described above on a spectra tank or mabye just do this with a new aftermarket tank which should save a lot of money if I do it myself.I just like the look of a factory type tank myself.Buy an aftermarket tank for about $150,new walbro about what,a$100,few fittings,etc.do the above mods.If you do the work yourself you should have a tank that will fit like factory and work like you want it to for about$300.Even if you take it to a pro to get it welded back up it wouldnt be too bad.I dont like the idea of welding on one that has had gas in it although there are ways of doing this safley,Im just not going to do it if I dont have to.
02-12-2011, 02:16 PM
#91
I understand your point Steve. I say I can afford the Ricks but I have alotted some money for this project and now I am over the budget. I still need the Vintage A/C setup and some brackets and pulleys. We will "get by" for now and maybe on down the road when we are looking to upgrade my setup the Ricks will fall right in line.
Superboost I am with you on the whole mod point of view! I am fail to say earlier in this post, but Rock issued a store credit not a refund so it sort of forces me to either keep my Spectra tank and mod it or send it back and opt for a pump assembly like firstgenguy with my credit. Sort of want to keep the new tank because like you said I am not fond of cutting on a tank that has a combustible gas in it already. My safety is more important than a few hundred dollars.
Superboost I am with you on the whole mod point of view! I am fail to say earlier in this post, but Rock issued a store credit not a refund so it sort of forces me to either keep my Spectra tank and mod it or send it back and opt for a pump assembly like firstgenguy with my credit. Sort of want to keep the new tank because like you said I am not fond of cutting on a tank that has a combustible gas in it already. My safety is more important than a few hundred dollars.
02-12-2011, 03:16 PM
#92
Yes,if I were you I would mod the spectra tank you have now before you put it in.If I had known of the problem before I installed mine thats what I would have done.You will still be way under the cost of a ricks tank. You dont even have to spend the money on the pump,just use the one you have till it quits if you want to.Mine has been working fine for about 8-9 months.
02-12-2011, 07:53 PM
#93
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Has anyone thought that maybe people are just assuming they have 1/4 tank during this fuel starvation problem but in reality they may actually be almost empty. Im seriously wondering if most of the people that aren't having trouble are the ones with a fuel gauge that is compatible with the 140 ohm sender or whatever it is. Maybe the 90 ohm fuel gauges are showing a false reading of 1/4 tank?? just a thought.
I still feel that the pan is much tooo wide for the pump. Look at the size of the Tanks inc stuff much skinnier = no problems. The pan IMHO should be not much wider than the sock on the bottom.
I still feel that the pan is much tooo wide for the pump. Look at the size of the Tanks inc stuff much skinnier = no problems. The pan IMHO should be not much wider than the sock on the bottom.
I had one of the first design tanks from them. It was a nice looking tank and fairly simple design. Quiet pump and good pressure. I found the fuel sender was not accurate at the full position if I remember correctly. It worked great till you run down below 1/2 tank and hit some corners. I just read the have a newer version of the tank so it might be better, I don't know. I ended up making my own and can run till empty with no starvation issues.
02-12-2011, 09:03 PM
#94
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Team Chevelle website.......
The ZR1 assembly isn't just a baffle (a baffle alone usually is not sufficient) it's an entire pump module with a small surge tank and venturi pump to feed it.
My tank is baffled right now and the baffles alone just don't cut it when the fuel level gets under 1/2 tank. Baffles only slow the slosh and do not eliminate it. I need to add a surge tank. The OEM solution is elegant because it has a venturi scavenge pump and a small surge tank all built into a single drop in module.
Baffles are certainly a good idea as they slow the fuel sloshing during cornering, braking, and acceleration loads, but as mentioned baffles only slow the sloshing and do not eliminate it. A vertically oriented surge tank filled by either a second pump or by a venturi pump powered by the main pump ensures that the fuel pump will always have fuel at the pickup even during situations where the venturi pump might be uncovered; the vertical surge tank keeps a small amount of fuel in reserve and making it vertically oriented is the most effective method to resist acceleration forces. In order for the main pump to suck air means the secondary pump intake must first be uncovered and then the cornering load must be sustained long enough that the main pump can then empty the surge tank. If the system is properly designed and sized this situation should be nearly impossible to achieve.
My tank is baffled right now and the baffles alone just don't cut it when the fuel level gets under 1/2 tank. Baffles only slow the slosh and do not eliminate it. I need to add a surge tank. The OEM solution is elegant because it has a venturi scavenge pump and a small surge tank all built into a single drop in module.
Baffles are certainly a good idea as they slow the fuel sloshing during cornering, braking, and acceleration loads, but as mentioned baffles only slow the sloshing and do not eliminate it. A vertically oriented surge tank filled by either a second pump or by a venturi pump powered by the main pump ensures that the fuel pump will always have fuel at the pickup even during situations where the venturi pump might be uncovered; the vertical surge tank keeps a small amount of fuel in reserve and making it vertically oriented is the most effective method to resist acceleration forces. In order for the main pump to suck air means the secondary pump intake must first be uncovered and then the cornering load must be sustained long enough that the main pump can then empty the surge tank. If the system is properly designed and sized this situation should be nearly impossible to achieve.
02-12-2011, 10:36 PM
#96
Has anyone thought that maybe people are just assuming they have 1/4 tank during this fuel starvation problem but in reality they may actually be almost empty. Im seriously wondering if most of the people that aren't having trouble are the ones with a fuel gauge that is compatible with the 140 ohm sender or whatever it is. Maybe the 90 ohm fuel gauges are showing a false reading of 1/4 tank?? just a thought.
I would assume that they were checking to see how much fuel they added to figure the amount that was left in the tank when the problems arose.
I have decided to send the Spectra back and use my credit to buy the exact same setup as firstgenguy as mentioned previously on this thread. All in one unit and will require about as much work as modding the Spectra. I already own the tank and will have money left over once I get the Spectra back to where it came from. I will have to still take it to have it coated for reassurance but it should be alot cheaper than having them weld it and then coat it. Once this is done I feel confident with the built in sump that fuel starvation will be eliminated. I am sure the fuel pump that is in the assembly will be more than enough since it was installed in a 460ci vehicle. I would assume the 460 would drink more gas than my warmed over 6.0.
02-12-2011, 11:06 PM
#97
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Since my tank was bought from who-knows-where by the previous shop in PA, I have no idea if I could return it. Since you have decided not to try out your idea, I think I will give it a shot. I really think it deserves a try. I think it's feasible.
02-12-2011, 11:14 PM
#98
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I have made my decision. I am going to buy a thin sheet of metal and fabricate the same exact thing as in the picture, but I will add a small notch to the front and back for the bumps in the pan. Instead of attaching it to the pump assembly itself i'll center it over the bumps, Tack weld in the front and back and thats it. Bumps are raised off of the floor of the tank so no worries there. The height of the side walls will be no taller than the float in the empty position and a 1/4 inch hole in the front just like in the picture. No cutting of the tank required and a similar proven setup used in multiple other tanks. The more I think about it it seems like Spectre tried to improve on that design and in the process totally effed up the whole thing.
Im done stressing about it too so decision is made. My logic is
Proven design + no cutting of the tank = best effin solution I can come up with
02-12-2011, 11:18 PM
#99
The other problem they have is the sender OHM, the OHM is actually 114 vs your standard 90 OHM or 240 OHM. So when they asked them if they would fix this issue with the new tank. The Rep said no, because they have a large order of the 114 OHM senders in stock, and they will not change the senders to a more accurate 90 OHM until they use and sell the large supply of 114 OHM senders they have in stock. So if you know the fuel level will not be accurate with your sending unit or tank, then why the hell are they selling the tank with the inaccurate sending units? To cut cost? Now that speaks volumes about their integrity and passing the buck to the customer.
So here is a list of issues and how its been handled:
1. So besides having a fugged up sending unit first, 90 OHM fuel gauge on the car, 114 OHM sender
2. then they lengthened the pick up because they said it was too short and causeing the fuel starvation.
3. Then after lengthing the pick up, they still had fuel starvation issues.
4. Then the fuel pumps were going out. I wonder why? The best way to fry a intake pump is periods of not being able to stay cool by surrounding fuel.
5. The fuel pump and its correlation to slosh and starvation were sucking air.
6. So after all of this they finally came to a conclusion that the baffle design was fugged up.
Now thats just a breif overview, but you do the math. Sounds like to me, you would have a better chance of building your own tank or baffle system than play the odds or roulette that you will not have any of these problems.
$350-$500 is the range I have seen them go for but, after you buy another pump $150 and the time wasted chasing your tail which is priceless, makes you wonder if a Rick's tank is worth it or a Cheap $50 Imapla tank, but oh yeah its ugly, but the Spectra tank people buy for looks, but they are a fugged up design... How many more people are going to chase the cosmetic "it looks good" vs risking fuel issues and lean issues which can kill your motors fast.
I have the impala tank and have had no issues other than a pump go out, but if I had to or chose to buy another tank, it will be a Ricks. Unless they show signs of fuggn up too...lol
Folks wake up and stop being zombies or cattle, you have the power to affect the LSX products prices which are highly infalted. The power you have is the ability to not buy the outrages priced parts, especially if they are inferrior and of poor quality.
And if I ever did get one of these tanks, I would wait at least several months after they come out and all of the sh*tty sending units are sold as well people have tested the new tanks. I don't have $350-$500 to experiement with, I spent $50 and if the impala tank crapped out, I am out of $50 vs $350-$500+.
Bozz
So here is a list of issues and how its been handled:
1. So besides having a fugged up sending unit first, 90 OHM fuel gauge on the car, 114 OHM sender
2. then they lengthened the pick up because they said it was too short and causeing the fuel starvation.
3. Then after lengthing the pick up, they still had fuel starvation issues.
4. Then the fuel pumps were going out. I wonder why? The best way to fry a intake pump is periods of not being able to stay cool by surrounding fuel.
5. The fuel pump and its correlation to slosh and starvation were sucking air.
6. So after all of this they finally came to a conclusion that the baffle design was fugged up.
Now thats just a breif overview, but you do the math. Sounds like to me, you would have a better chance of building your own tank or baffle system than play the odds or roulette that you will not have any of these problems.
$350-$500 is the range I have seen them go for but, after you buy another pump $150 and the time wasted chasing your tail which is priceless, makes you wonder if a Rick's tank is worth it or a Cheap $50 Imapla tank, but oh yeah its ugly, but the Spectra tank people buy for looks, but they are a fugged up design... How many more people are going to chase the cosmetic "it looks good" vs risking fuel issues and lean issues which can kill your motors fast.
I have the impala tank and have had no issues other than a pump go out, but if I had to or chose to buy another tank, it will be a Ricks. Unless they show signs of fuggn up too...lol
Folks wake up and stop being zombies or cattle, you have the power to affect the LSX products prices which are highly infalted. The power you have is the ability to not buy the outrages priced parts, especially if they are inferrior and of poor quality.
And if I ever did get one of these tanks, I would wait at least several months after they come out and all of the sh*tty sending units are sold as well people have tested the new tanks. I don't have $350-$500 to experiement with, I spent $50 and if the impala tank crapped out, I am out of $50 vs $350-$500+.
Bozz
