AArrgh! Water--lots of water--in the oil pan of my 3k junkyard L96. What next?
03-02-2011, 12:48 PM
#41
I don't understand what you think isn't promising. They are offering a full refund if you really don't want it, or a kick back on price if you chose to keep it. Sounds like they are making an effort.
That looks like moisture from sitting. As long as it wasn't run with that milkshake then there shouldn't be any real damage.
I once bought a used motor that had a valve rusted shut. Just freed the valve, cleaned it up and went on with it.
That looks like moisture from sitting. As long as it wasn't run with that milkshake then there shouldn't be any real damage.
I once bought a used motor that had a valve rusted shut. Just freed the valve, cleaned it up and went on with it.
03-02-2011, 02:26 PM
#42
If I accept the risk and nothing happens, then all is good. If I take apart to verify, then I'm out much more than $75, not to mention my time and effort. The least risky thing is to return it, but the way I read their email they expect me to pay shipping (although I'm sure I could ultimately get that). That said, the posters today and other friends are convincing me the risk is fairly low and I ought to just take $75 and run.
I think the original purchase price is a very good price--but its also sort of irrelevant. As a business, they sold me a 3k mile motor that should be brand new. And they're basically telling me I can't have that, but they will give me my money back. Here's what's interesting--my original ? to them was what will you do with it? they said sell it to someone else. I said, "Without fixing?" they said, yes, this is just cosmetic. To be fair, they had at that point not seen the pictures, but even after that you see in the response they consider this a non-problem and would likely therefore pass to someone else. I wonder what price they could get with an ad that says, "3k mile motor for sale, minor cosmetic rust from water in the engine on crank and rod and one cylinder wall" I at least would have steered away.
I will probably clean the rust per my friends recco, and get some cheap oil flush the system, drain it, pull pan, and proceed on. Will look more at the rust line per above post, and if the bearings above it, probably won't even pull the rod bolts since they are (I think) TTY.
Appreciate the many varied opinions and thoughts all of you have provided.
03-02-2011, 06:57 PM
#44
Even if they hadanother one sitting in their yard, they wouldn't tell you about it....As far as they are concerned it's a done deal......Too bad you are getting a compromised engine that you paid good money for............I'm sure if you would have know what you were getting up front you wouldn't have taken a chance on it.........Try and get your money back.......I've had very good luck dealing with Cleveland-Pick-A-Parts..........
Ken
Ken
that yard is a joke! dont get me started on the water logged crap I got and they wanted me to pay for all the shipping on there screw up
03-02-2011, 07:33 PM
#45
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Phoenix/Tempe, AZ
Posts: 1,969
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nothing would be fine if nothing else is needed.
I think the original purchase price is a very good price--but its also sort of irrelevant. As a business, they sold me a 3k mile motor that should be brand new. And they're basically telling me I can't have that, but they will give me my money back. Here's what's interesting--my original ? to them was what will you do with it? they said sell it to someone else. I said, "Without fixing?" they said, yes, this is just cosmetic. To be fair, they had at that point not seen the pictures, but even after that you see in the response they consider this a non-problem and would likely therefore pass to someone else. I wonder what price they could get with an ad that says, "3k mile motor for sale, minor cosmetic rust from water in the engine on crank and rod and one cylinder wall" I at least would have steered away.
I think the original purchase price is a very good price--but its also sort of irrelevant. As a business, they sold me a 3k mile motor that should be brand new. And they're basically telling me I can't have that, but they will give me my money back. Here's what's interesting--my original ? to them was what will you do with it? they said sell it to someone else. I said, "Without fixing?" they said, yes, this is just cosmetic. To be fair, they had at that point not seen the pictures, but even after that you see in the response they consider this a non-problem and would likely therefore pass to someone else. I wonder what price they could get with an ad that says, "3k mile motor for sale, minor cosmetic rust from water in the engine on crank and rod and one cylinder wall" I at least would have steered away.
hows this shop better than any other illegitimate seller on ebay/craigslist/forums who pulls a bait and switch? and not expect to pay for shipping for every guy who wants a return because it wasnt as advertised
it sounds like some people have had decent experiences in situations like this- your buddys suggestion sounds pretty.. sound... so good luck if you go that route (ie, if you dont find any other deal breakers) and be sure to post updates
03-02-2011, 07:35 PM
#46
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: IL
Posts: 698
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"When removing rust from the crank, it is easy to create particle contamination that will be worse than the rust. Don’t use Scotch-Brite like someone on the chat room suggested - instant contamination! I’d use a rag or Q-tips saturated with a weak phosphoric acid solution. Metal Prep or something similar used for preparing sheet metal for painting will work. I get bottles of phosphoric acid from the hardware store paint department; they call it Metal Etch. Read and follow the label directions. Just dampen the surface, let it sit a few minutes, and wipe it off while still wet with a clean dry rag. You will be surprised how fast the phosphoric acid eats up fresh surface rust. Clean a small area at a time. Use a rag dampened with WD-40 to wipe the freshly cleaned and dried area before you go to the next area. You can use his method on the bottom of the cylinder bore that has surface rust, and the connecting rods. After the engine block is assembled, you can use the acid and a stainless steel toothbrush to clean up the outside of the block before you paint it."
Turn the engine on the stand right side up, blow it off with compressed air, and then clean it with parts cleaner, and then coat with oil. It's not like the ring gets that deep into the cylinder walls to begin with. Any solid particles that do come off will fall onto the ground.
03-02-2011, 07:38 PM
#47
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Phoenix/Tempe, AZ
Posts: 1,969
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i bet on a molecular level theres a ton more contamination from the scotch brite leavings/ rust residue/ tiny shavings
i bet the margin for error on a molecular level is pretty wide though; weve all seen these engines go through a lot.
i bet its still better than leaving the rust there lol
i bet the margin for error on a molecular level is pretty wide though; weve all seen these engines go through a lot.
i bet its still better than leaving the rust there lol
03-02-2011, 08:13 PM
#48
TECH Resident
iTrader: (55)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cleveland, Oh
Posts: 847
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OMG that engine is perfectly fine. You've got rust in areas that will clean right off and not effect anything. I would fire it up and run it with no concern at all. Change the oil after the first run and it'll be fine. I've used engines with rust in the cylinders and never had an issue. Hell my 383 had the heads off over the winter and the cylinder walls looked all rusty. I just scotch brighted them with oil and put it together. I've had no issues and it's been running since 2005 after doin g that plus it is a LT1.
03-03-2011, 05:25 AM
#49
Well, no, they sold you a used motor out of wrecked vehicle that sat in a yard for s few months during the winter.
I feel your pain, I wouldn't want to deal with it either. Especially after all the gloom and doom on your first page. But doesn't sound like the yard was dishonest with you, they probably didn't know either. Now if they don't tell the next guy, another story.
I watched a power block episode just last night where they bought a used mopar 360 off the net for a "budget small block build". They got 2 quarts of water before any oil, and had slight surface rust on valve springs and such. Now they did do a complete tear down to check for a cracked block, but everything checked out.
I feel your pain, I wouldn't want to deal with it either. Especially after all the gloom and doom on your first page. But doesn't sound like the yard was dishonest with you, they probably didn't know either. Now if they don't tell the next guy, another story.
I watched a power block episode just last night where they bought a used mopar 360 off the net for a "budget small block build". They got 2 quarts of water before any oil, and had slight surface rust on valve springs and such. Now they did do a complete tear down to check for a cracked block, but everything checked out.
03-03-2011, 05:42 AM
#50
Well, no, they sold you a used motor out of wrecked vehicle that sat in a yard for s few months during the winter.
I feel your pain, I wouldn't want to deal with it either. Especially after all the gloom and doom on your first page. But doesn't sound like the yard was dishonest with you, they probably didn't know either. Now if they don't tell the next guy, another story.
I watched a power block episode just last night where they bought a used mopar 360 off the net for a "budget small block build". They got 2 quarts of water before any oil, and had slight surface rust on valve springs and such. Now they did do a complete tear down to check for a cracked block, but everything checked out.
I feel your pain, I wouldn't want to deal with it either. Especially after all the gloom and doom on your first page. But doesn't sound like the yard was dishonest with you, they probably didn't know either. Now if they don't tell the next guy, another story.
I watched a power block episode just last night where they bought a used mopar 360 off the net for a "budget small block build". They got 2 quarts of water before any oil, and had slight surface rust on valve springs and such. Now they did do a complete tear down to check for a cracked block, but everything checked out.
But I was thinking about group psychology last nite. Notice ALL the posts on page one were universally negative and now they are almost all positive? Don't think it was due to more facts (photos on page 2 showed there was rust we didn't know about on page 1). Groupthink? In any case, I do appreciate ALL the comments and feedback!
03-03-2011, 07:56 AM
#51
On The Tree
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Loveland, Ohio
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I never said they were dishonest, and I understand accidents happen. Further I should have been a bit more precise: they were selling me a motor that was "virtually brand new". Sitting in a yard since december is NO issue, if they don't leave it with the oil filter cap off and then power wash it. Read their response to me--they see it as a virtually brand new engine also--just with a little "cosmetic" problem.
But I was thinking about group psychology last nite. Notice ALL the posts on page one were universally negative and now they are almost all positive? Don't think it was due to more facts (photos on page 2 showed there was rust we didn't know about on page 1). Groupthink? In any case, I do appreciate ALL the comments and feedback!
But I was thinking about group psychology last nite. Notice ALL the posts on page one were universally negative and now they are almost all positive? Don't think it was due to more facts (photos on page 2 showed there was rust we didn't know about on page 1). Groupthink? In any case, I do appreciate ALL the comments and feedback!
I'm in cincinnati, there were are few LSx engines available on cincinnati.craigst.com yesterday for decent prices.
Also, for a seriously clean engine and for a not significant drive for you, I got my engine from Tester auto parts here in cincinnati. I paid a little more than average for it, but it was fully documented and hadless than 200 miles on it (2006 L59 DBW with harness pedal and TAC for ~1700).
In my opinion, take the refund and either try your luck with another from them, or follow the leads I provided.
Best of luck to you, its going to be a sweet ride.
03-03-2011, 11:38 PM
#52
Man I would clean that motor up and run it. However, since its already broken down I would replace all the bearings and gaskets (piece of mind), plus make sure ALL rust was removed completely. If everything else checks out take the money and call it a day.
03-04-2011, 06:15 AM
#53
03-04-2011, 09:00 PM
#56
TECH Enthusiast
I got a little story for you that I will use a visual depiction:
A guy buys a motor, and pulls the oil pan and water runs out-
Owner:
Ask the The members on the board and the knowledgable old farts-
Junkyard tells him it was just from a pressure wash-
Some members tell him to keep it and run it:
Owner comes back in here and craps on good advice from the wise:
GROUPTHINK?
A fews weeks or months down the line something goes wrong-
Owner:
So he calls the junkyard-
Junkyard salesman:
Owner after buying a motor that had water in it:
Owner now wants to drive to the junkyard and get violent:
Then he post back on the board after the problem and the members are like:
group psychology at its finest.......GROUPTHINK?.....LOL
Who buys a motor with known water in it and puts it in and says cool I am going to keep it and run it......You are setting yourself up for failure, you don't know for sure how long the water has been sitting in there....
Epic failure......
THE END
Excecutive Produced by Bozz
Co Produced by LS1tech Filmz
2011 Oscar nominee
Goldhawg Best leading Actor
Junkyard Best supporting Actor
A guy buys a motor, and pulls the oil pan and water runs out-
Owner:
Ask the The members on the board and the knowledgable old farts-
Junkyard tells him it was just from a pressure wash-
Some members tell him to keep it and run it:
Owner comes back in here and craps on good advice from the wise:
GROUPTHINK?A fews weeks or months down the line something goes wrong-
Owner:
So he calls the junkyard-
Junkyard salesman:
Owner after buying a motor that had water in it:
Owner now wants to drive to the junkyard and get violent:
Then he post back on the board after the problem and the members are like:
group psychology at its finest.......GROUPTHINK?.....LOL
Who buys a motor with known water in it and puts it in and says cool I am going to keep it and run it......You are setting yourself up for failure, you don't know for sure how long the water has been sitting in there....
Epic failure......
THE END
Excecutive Produced by Bozz
Co Produced by LS1tech Filmz
2011 Oscar nominee
Goldhawg Best leading Actor
Junkyard Best supporting Actor
Last edited by bozzhawg; 03-04-2011 at 09:25 PM.
03-04-2011, 09:22 PM
#58
I got a little story for you that I will use a visual depiction:
A guy buys a motor, and pulls the oil pan and water runs out-
Owner:
Ask the The members on the board and the knowledgable old farts-
Junkyard tells him it was just from a pressure wash-
Some members tell him to keep it and run it:
Owner comes back in here and craps on good advice from the wise:
GROUPTHINK?
A fews weeks or months down the line something goes wrong-
Owner:
So he calls the junkyard-
Junkyard salesman:
Owner after buying a motor that had water in it:
Owner now wants to drive to the junkyard and get violent:
Then he post back on the board after the problem and the members are like:
group psychology at its finest.......GROUPTHINK?.....LOL
Who buys a motor with known water in it and puts it in and says cool I am going to keep it and run it......You are setting yourself up for failure, you don't know for sure how long the water has been sitting in there....
Epic failure......
Bozz
A guy buys a motor, and pulls the oil pan and water runs out-
Owner:
Ask the The members on the board and the knowledgable old farts-
Junkyard tells him it was just from a pressure wash-
Some members tell him to keep it and run it:
Owner comes back in here and craps on good advice from the wise:
GROUPTHINK?A fews weeks or months down the line something goes wrong-
Owner:
So he calls the junkyard-
Junkyard salesman:
Owner after buying a motor that had water in it:
Owner now wants to drive to the junkyard and get violent:
Then he post back on the board after the problem and the members are like:
group psychology at its finest.......GROUPTHINK?.....LOL
Who buys a motor with known water in it and puts it in and says cool I am going to keep it and run it......You are setting yourself up for failure, you don't know for sure how long the water has been sitting in there....
Epic failure......
Bozz
I for one would keep it and install new bearings and head gaskets little pricey now but well worth knowing what you really have.
03-04-2011, 11:18 PM
#59
Mine had rusty valves, some water, and some mold in the foam under the intake.
The dilemma was the same...return the engine-pay for freight, or accept less than what I had expected.
I took it apart to inspect all of the pertinent areas, replaced the affected valves, checked the seats, & that was 'it'.
If there was any contamination left, it has nowhere to hide after being bathed and covered in hot engine oil.
The engine runs like a top!
I enjoy transforming what others might refer to as a negative situation. Make the choice and go with it.
The dilemma was the same...return the engine-pay for freight, or accept less than what I had expected.
I took it apart to inspect all of the pertinent areas, replaced the affected valves, checked the seats, & that was 'it'.
If there was any contamination left, it has nowhere to hide after being bathed and covered in hot engine oil.
The engine runs like a top!
I enjoy transforming what others might refer to as a negative situation. Make the choice and go with it.
Last edited by gMAG; 03-04-2011 at 11:35 PM.
03-06-2011, 07:43 AM
#60
I got a little story for you that I will use a visual depiction:
A guy buys a motor, and pulls the oil pan and water runs out-
Owner:
Ask the The members on the board and the knowledgable old farts-
Junkyard tells him it was just from a pressure wash-
Some members tell him to keep it and run it:
Owner comes back in here and craps on good advice from the wise:
GROUPTHINK?
A fews weeks or months down the line something goes wrong-
Owner:
So he calls the junkyard-
Junkyard salesman:
Owner after buying a motor that had water in it:
Owner now wants to drive to the junkyard and get violent:
Then he post back on the board after the problem and the members are like:
group psychology at its finest.......GROUPTHINK?.....LOL
Who buys a motor with known water in it and puts it in and says cool I am going to keep it and run it......You are setting yourself up for failure, you don't know for sure how long the water has been sitting in there....
Epic failure......
THE END
Excecutive Produced by Bozz
Co Produced by LS1tech Filmz
2011 Oscar nominee
Goldhawg Best leading Actor
Junkyard Best supporting Actor
A guy buys a motor, and pulls the oil pan and water runs out-
Owner:
Ask the The members on the board and the knowledgable old farts-
Junkyard tells him it was just from a pressure wash-
Some members tell him to keep it and run it:
Owner comes back in here and craps on good advice from the wise:
GROUPTHINK?A fews weeks or months down the line something goes wrong-
Owner:
So he calls the junkyard-
Junkyard salesman:
Owner after buying a motor that had water in it:
Owner now wants to drive to the junkyard and get violent:
Then he post back on the board after the problem and the members are like:
group psychology at its finest.......GROUPTHINK?.....LOL
Who buys a motor with known water in it and puts it in and says cool I am going to keep it and run it......You are setting yourself up for failure, you don't know for sure how long the water has been sitting in there....
Epic failure......
THE END
Excecutive Produced by Bozz
Co Produced by LS1tech Filmz
2011 Oscar nominee
Goldhawg Best leading Actor
Junkyard Best supporting Actor
BTW, on the groupthink thing--I certainly don't think all the posts were that way, perhaps even none. But the correlation was suspicious!
Hopefully I can shut your movie off halfway thru! You can still win an Oscar for best FICTIONAL movie!
My current plan is to keep it, and get rid of the external rust per the recco of my friend posted above (probably today). Then bolt the cleaned up pan back on and send oil thru engine, drain, and go ahead. I'm going on probabilities and expected value. The probability of water causing damage on the bearings I believe to be low, and the cost of any further repairs is in the low hundreds of $$. Its all a risk/reward tradeoff. But I do appreciate your advice. All of it...
Anybody know whether you can rent these oil pressure tools? I don't want to spend $200+ for something I'll use once...
http://compare.ebay.com/like/2005745...=263602_309572