Russell quick disconnect fittings
06-02-2011, 08:03 AM
#61
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Very good information. I thank you for posting about this topic as I am in the middle of my build and want this to be a car that my wife and kids can safely enjoy!
Along with all of the differing opinions on what to use as replacements I have one also. I was looking at converting some power steering lines and cam across these. They can be used with a 37* flare or not. Very inexpensive!
http://www.aeroquip.cc/aeroquipversi...sadapters.aspx
Along with all of the differing opinions on what to use as replacements I have one also. I was looking at converting some power steering lines and cam across these. They can be used with a 37* flare or not. Very inexpensive!
http://www.aeroquip.cc/aeroquipversi...sadapters.aspx
06-02-2011, 05:14 PM
#62
TECH Regular
Thread Starter
Swagelok makes an excellent product, no doubt about that!
John, have you ever had a failure with a Swagelok tube fitting on a fuel line? I have been told that you shouldn't use compression fittings on fuel lines, however, I know this isn't your typical compression fitting. I have one on my fuel rail, feel pretty good about it, and have not had a problem with it yet. I had a nice discussion with my local distributor (very knowledgeable) and he felt that the application would be fine.
Swagelok insists that you should never use any other brand component with a Swagelok fitting. So if you are going to use a Swagelok fitting, use the whole fitting - don't mix and match the small parts with Parker brand, etc.
Is brass suitable for fuel line use? I used brass on mine but I am thinking about changing it. I heard that the brass will react with the fuel and eventually cause the fuel to gum up.
John, have you ever had a failure with a Swagelok tube fitting on a fuel line? I have been told that you shouldn't use compression fittings on fuel lines, however, I know this isn't your typical compression fitting. I have one on my fuel rail, feel pretty good about it, and have not had a problem with it yet. I had a nice discussion with my local distributor (very knowledgeable) and he felt that the application would be fine.
Swagelok insists that you should never use any other brand component with a Swagelok fitting. So if you are going to use a Swagelok fitting, use the whole fitting - don't mix and match the small parts with Parker brand, etc.
Is brass suitable for fuel line use? I used brass on mine but I am thinking about changing it. I heard that the brass will react with the fuel and eventually cause the fuel to gum up.
I have never had a problem with Swagelok on fuel lines. The fittings are rated for way more pressure than they will ever see in a fuel system. These fittings are used on all sorts of high pressure and mission-critical applications.
I never meant to recommend mixing parts, just that The Parker line has almost every single fitting the Swagelok line does, at a lower price.
Brass is fine on fuel systems. Brass is used on almost all pre-quick disconnect systems. Look at any car that is more than a few years old and you will find brass fittings used for the entire system.
I really think that the new Russell fittings are going to be the best solution. They will be less expensive than the Swagelok fittings, and they will not leave a ferrule on the line stub that has to be replaced when you change a filter. I should have my new fittings tomorrow and will let you know my feelings on them. The new fittings should completely preclude the fittings ever coming off in use, but will be easy to remove without special tools.
Regards, John McGraw
06-02-2011, 05:20 PM
#63
TECH Regular
Thread Starter
Regards, John McGraw
06-02-2011, 05:43 PM
#64
The dorman retainer clip is OEM for Ford. Just because its dorman doesnt count it out. Lots of people have been having good results from the fittings
Proper install is to put the retainer in the fitting then press securely onto the fuel line for a positive click. Tug it to make sure its seated. Leaving the retainer on the fuel line when installing will give a false connection and is prone to blowing off
Proper install is to put the retainer in the fitting then press securely onto the fuel line for a positive click. Tug it to make sure its seated. Leaving the retainer on the fuel line when installing will give a false connection and is prone to blowing off
06-02-2011, 07:51 PM
#65
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I have never had a problem with Swagelok on fuel lines. The fittings are rated for way more pressure than they will ever see in a fuel system. These fittings are used on all sorts of high pressure and mission-critical applications.
I never meant to recommend mixing parts, just that The Parker line has almost every single fitting the Swagelok line does, at a lower price.
Brass is fine on fuel systems. Brass is used on almost all pre-quick disconnect systems. Look at any car that is more than a few years old and you will find brass fittings used for the entire system.
I really think that the new Russell fittings are going to be the best solution. They will be less expensive than the Swagelok fittings, and they will not leave a ferrule on the line stub that has to be replaced when you change a filter. I should have my new fittings tomorrow and will let you know my feelings on them. The new fittings should completely preclude the fittings ever coming off in use, but will be easy to remove without special tools.
Regards, John McGraw
I never meant to recommend mixing parts, just that The Parker line has almost every single fitting the Swagelok line does, at a lower price.
Brass is fine on fuel systems. Brass is used on almost all pre-quick disconnect systems. Look at any car that is more than a few years old and you will find brass fittings used for the entire system.
I really think that the new Russell fittings are going to be the best solution. They will be less expensive than the Swagelok fittings, and they will not leave a ferrule on the line stub that has to be replaced when you change a filter. I should have my new fittings tomorrow and will let you know my feelings on them. The new fittings should completely preclude the fittings ever coming off in use, but will be easy to remove without special tools.
Regards, John McGraw
I too am interested in how this turns out. I very much dislike the way 3rd gen fbodies have their sending units setup; does not make for an easy quick change fuel pump setup. If there's a safe and reliable compression option out there for a reasonable price, I can get going with modifying my sending unit
06-02-2011, 08:45 PM
#67
...Along with all of the differing opinions on what to use as replacements I have one also. I was looking at converting some power steering lines and cam across these. They can be used with a 37* flare or not. Very inexpensive!
http://www.aeroquip.cc/aeroquipversi...sadapters.aspx
http://www.aeroquip.cc/aeroquipversi...sadapters.aspx
06-02-2011, 09:42 PM
#68
The dorman retainer clip is OEM for Ford. Just because its dorman doesnt count it out. Lots of people have been having good results from the fittings
Proper install is to put the retainer in the fitting then press securely onto the fuel line for a positive click. Tug it to make sure its seated. Leaving the retainer on the fuel line when installing will give a false connection and is prone to blowing off
Proper install is to put the retainer in the fitting then press securely onto the fuel line for a positive click. Tug it to make sure its seated. Leaving the retainer on the fuel line when installing will give a false connection and is prone to blowing off
06-02-2011, 11:14 PM
#69
TECH Regular
Thread Starter
The dorman retainer clip is OEM for Ford. Just because its dorman doesnt count it out. Lots of people have been having good results from the fittings
Proper install is to put the retainer in the fitting then press securely onto the fuel line for a positive click. Tug it to make sure its seated. Leaving the retainer on the fuel line when installing will give a false connection and is prone to blowing off
Proper install is to put the retainer in the fitting then press securely onto the fuel line for a positive click. Tug it to make sure its seated. Leaving the retainer on the fuel line when installing will give a false connection and is prone to blowing off
This is the second time I have heard this and the last time I just let it go, but this is just wrong. If you read the Russell tech sheet on the fittings, you will see that the ONLY recommended way of installing these fittings is to install the clip on the line first and then seat the fitting on to the clip that is already installed on the line. Russell further says that installing the fitting with the clip already in it will almost assure a failure. I have been building cars for almost 40 years and have probably installed more of these fittings than most people have ever seen, and unlike you, I follow the manufacturers instructions, so the last thing I need is someone who does not even know me telling me that I don't know how to install these fittings. I have had 3 failures on my own personal cars, and several on customer's cars and I can assure you that every fitting was installed per the manufacturers instructions and double checked for security. 1 failed within 2 months of being installed and the other two failed after more than a year.
I don't doubt for a moment that many people have been served well by them. As a matter of fact, the vast majority of the ones that I have installed over the last 5 years are still secure and functioning well. That being said, it really sucks to be in the small percentage of people who have had these fittings fail. Even if the failure rate is only 1/2 percent, this is too high for a critical part like this. This connection is way too critical not to have positive retention of the fitting.
Regards, John McGraw
06-03-2011, 10:42 AM
#70
One thing to keep in mind, the tech support guy told me that the Russell fitting uses the Dorman clip! In my humble opinion, there is nothing wrong with the machining of the fitting. All the problem is from the Nylon clip which they tell me is sourced from Dorman. I think that some sort of positive retention system is an absolute imperative, and I think the new Russell fitting will meet that requirement.
Regards, John McGraw
Regards, John McGraw
I'm wondering why Russell didn't create it's original design utilizing the steel clip like the stock GM connector uses? Dorman offers a stock replacement steel clip, so availability isn't an issue. That said, the GM system (on the LS1 Camaro anyway) uses an additional clip-on retainer. I don't suspect they would have added it if it wasn't somehow necessary to insure that it wouldn't fail.
Thanks again John for the research. It's very informative, and has certainly alerted me to a potential problem. Now why Russell doesn't offer a new design replacement for the -6AN x 3/8 is beyond me.
Andy1
06-03-2011, 03:11 PM
#71
TECH Regular
Thread Starter
I'm wondering why Russell didn't create it's original design utilizing the steel clip like the stock GM connector uses? Dorman offers a stock replacement steel clip, so availability isn't an issue. That said, the GM system (on the LS1 Camaro anyway) uses an additional clip-on retainer. I don't suspect they would have added it if it wasn't somehow necessary to insure that it wouldn't fail.
Thanks again John for the research. It's very informative, and has certainly alerted me to a potential problem. Now why Russell doesn't offer a new design replacement for the -6AN x 3/8 is beyond me.
Andy1
Thanks again John for the research. It's very informative, and has certainly alerted me to a potential problem. Now why Russell doesn't offer a new design replacement for the -6AN x 3/8 is beyond me.
Andy1
They do make a 3/8 x -6AN, but it is probably just not in the catalog yet. These are the fittings that I am expecting today, but it is getting late in the day, so it may be Monday before I see them. I will post some pics and my thought on them after I have installed a couple of them.
Regards, John McGraw
06-03-2011, 05:05 PM
#72
B.S.!
This is the second time I have heard this and the last time I just let it go, but this is just wrong. If you read the Russell tech sheet on the fittings, you will see that the ONLY recommended way of installing these fittings is to install the clip on the line first and then seat the fitting on to the clip that is already installed on the line. Russell further says that installing the fitting with the clip already in it will almost assure a failure. I have been building cars for almost 40 years and have probably installed more of these fittings than most people have ever seen, and unlike you, I follow the manufacturers instructions, so the last thing I need is someone who does not even know me telling me that I don't know how to install these fittings. I have had 3 failures on my own personal cars, and several on customer's cars and I can assure you that every fitting was installed per the manufacturers instructions and double checked for security. 1 failed within 2 months of being installed and the other two failed after more than a year.
I don't doubt for a moment that many people have been served well by them. As a matter of fact, the vast majority of the ones that I have installed over the last 5 years are still secure and functioning well. That being said, it really sucks to be in the small percentage of people who have had these fittings fail. Even if the failure rate is only 1/2 percent, this is too high for a critical part like this. This connection is way too critical not to have positive retention of the fitting.
Regards, John McGraw
This is the second time I have heard this and the last time I just let it go, but this is just wrong. If you read the Russell tech sheet on the fittings, you will see that the ONLY recommended way of installing these fittings is to install the clip on the line first and then seat the fitting on to the clip that is already installed on the line. Russell further says that installing the fitting with the clip already in it will almost assure a failure. I have been building cars for almost 40 years and have probably installed more of these fittings than most people have ever seen, and unlike you, I follow the manufacturers instructions, so the last thing I need is someone who does not even know me telling me that I don't know how to install these fittings. I have had 3 failures on my own personal cars, and several on customer's cars and I can assure you that every fitting was installed per the manufacturers instructions and double checked for security. 1 failed within 2 months of being installed and the other two failed after more than a year.
I don't doubt for a moment that many people have been served well by them. As a matter of fact, the vast majority of the ones that I have installed over the last 5 years are still secure and functioning well. That being said, it really sucks to be in the small percentage of people who have had these fittings fail. Even if the failure rate is only 1/2 percent, this is too high for a critical part like this. This connection is way too critical not to have positive retention of the fitting.
Regards, John McGraw
I dont see how building cars for 40 years has anything to do with these fittings. They've only been out for a few years so the previous decades mean nil in this area
The fittings come in the common plastic display box with no info and this is as specific as Russel gets about any of their stuff. If you have any more info please post up for the benefit of us all
http://russellperformance.com/misc/tech/main.shtml
http://russellperformance.com/mc/adapt_fit/fuel.shtml
The trick with the plastic retainer was from trial and error after having the line pop off during testing. I spoke to a local speed shop that had experience in the matter and they suggested the same
To the people reading this thread, give it a try. Put the clip on the line first then snap the fitting on and try to pull it off by hand. Sometimes it pops off, sometimes not. Now try it again with the plastic up in the fitting first. Its not rocket science
06-03-2011, 05:28 PM
#73
I too had one that was not holding on my corvette filter.
I had an extra laying around. The extra clips(in packs of 5) are available from Summit and I'm sure your local parts store.
I plan to safety wire from the fitting to the filter just ensure no road debris knock them loose.
I had an extra laying around. The extra clips(in packs of 5) are available from Summit and I'm sure your local parts store.
I plan to safety wire from the fitting to the filter just ensure no road debris knock them loose.
06-03-2011, 10:20 PM
#75
TECH Regular
Thread Starter
Post up your data
I dont see how building cars for 40 years has anything to do with these fittings. They've only been out for a few years so the previous decades mean nil in this area
The fittings come in the common plastic display box with no info and this is as specific as Russel gets about any of their stuff. If you have any more info please post up for the benefit of us all
http://russellperformance.com/misc/tech/main.shtml
http://russellperformance.com/mc/adapt_fit/fuel.shtml
The trick with the plastic retainer was from trial and error after having the line pop off during testing. I spoke to a local speed shop that had experience in the matter and they suggested the same
To the people reading this thread, give it a try. Put the clip on the line first then snap the fitting on and try to pull it off by hand. Sometimes it pops off, sometimes not. Now try it again with the plastic up in the fitting first. Its not rocket science
I dont see how building cars for 40 years has anything to do with these fittings. They've only been out for a few years so the previous decades mean nil in this area
The fittings come in the common plastic display box with no info and this is as specific as Russel gets about any of their stuff. If you have any more info please post up for the benefit of us all
http://russellperformance.com/misc/tech/main.shtml
http://russellperformance.com/mc/adapt_fit/fuel.shtml
The trick with the plastic retainer was from trial and error after having the line pop off during testing. I spoke to a local speed shop that had experience in the matter and they suggested the same
To the people reading this thread, give it a try. Put the clip on the line first then snap the fitting on and try to pull it off by hand. Sometimes it pops off, sometimes not. Now try it again with the plastic up in the fitting first. Its not rocket science
40 years of experience simply says that I did not fall off the turnip truck last week and am not an idiot as you clearly assume. The Tech support person was very emphatic about not putting the fitting on with the clip already in the fitting and their technical instructions back this up. If I had any idea how to post the PDF in this string I would. When push comes to shove, I will always follow the manufacturers instructions, or you do not have any recourse otherwise.
The first thing out of the Russell tech support persons mouth was that I put the fitting on with the clip in the fitting and that this was against their instructions. When I told him that I follow the instructions to the letter, it shut him down. This discussion further reinforces that the fitting is not reliable. If you install it as the manufacturer specifies, then it pops of sometimes and sometimes it does not, your exact words. I have installed close to a hundred of these fittings over the last few years and am intimately aware with both the recommended installation technique and the indications that a fitting is not fully engaged. Just because you have never had one pop off in use, does not mean it does not happen. It just means it has not happened to you.
I hope after I send you the PDF, you will follow up with an acknowledgement that I am neither an idiot nor a liar. I will gladly send a copy of the tech sheet to anybody who wants it.
jmcgraw@austin.rr.com
Regards, John McGraw
06-03-2011, 10:42 PM
#76
TECH Regular
Thread Starter
Well, I just converted the PDF to a JPG and posted it on my photo hosting site for any that wish to view it.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-...tting_0001.jpg
Regards, John McGraw
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-...tting_0001.jpg
Regards, John McGraw
Last edited by John McGraw; 06-03-2011 at 10:58 PM.
06-03-2011, 11:12 PM
#78
TECH Regular
Thread Starter
No sweat man, I should not have taken your comments so personally.
I would agree with you. A lot of time the only way to get the tech sheets you need is to call them and have them send them to you. Their tech library needs a good going over!
Regards, John McGraw
I would agree with you. A lot of time the only way to get the tech sheets you need is to call them and have them send them to you. Their tech library needs a good going over!
Regards, John McGraw
06-16-2011, 11:24 AM
#80
I have used a fitting from Pure Choice Performance on my fuel rail since 2004. Never had any issues. It was used on my RX7 and is currently installed on my GTO.
http://www.purechoicemotorsports.com...rod&prd293.htm
Andrew
http://www.purechoicemotorsports.com...rod&prd293.htm
Andrew