LS1 --> 240SX s14 swap SMOG LEGAL - YES another one (5/2011)
05-14-2011, 04:40 AM
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LS1 --> 240SX s14 swap SMOG LEGAL - YES another one (5/2011) hey everyone,
im also working on an LS1 swap for my s14 and i have a few specific questions about the headers and emissions. im planning on using an 01+ motor (probably 01/02 f-body) also, i have done a LOT of searching (but if i missed something let me know), please read on!
1. if the motorset came with a 4A, can i bolt up a t56 without it affecting the refferee test? ECU needs to be reflashed i guess. i keep reading that the trans is taken into consideration because these motors' emissions were individually tested with the 4A and the 6M. but at the ref station, i can just say the car was manual in the first place, no?
2. in order to pass the ref test, the emissions equipment must remain the same as the donor vehicle (manifold to cats, and cats must be in the same location). but i haven't been able to confirm that f-body headers will fit (probably not). seems that C6 LS2 headers fit just fine without modification, however im not sure if this will fly at the BAR station. i don't know and i can't find any diagrams of 01/02 f-body/C6 LS2 exhaust system to compare (probably cause its 2am on a friggin friday). so…. what headers can i use?? C5 needs modification, don't know about GTO, i could "modify" CARB legal headers?
3. it is my understanding that the harness cannot be modified. to what degree? like, i can leave the engine harness alone and modify the chassis harness to accommodate the pins correctly?
thanks!
im also working on an LS1 swap for my s14 and i have a few specific questions about the headers and emissions. im planning on using an 01+ motor (probably 01/02 f-body) also, i have done a LOT of searching (but if i missed something let me know), please read on!
1. if the motorset came with a 4A, can i bolt up a t56 without it affecting the refferee test? ECU needs to be reflashed i guess. i keep reading that the trans is taken into consideration because these motors' emissions were individually tested with the 4A and the 6M. but at the ref station, i can just say the car was manual in the first place, no?
2. in order to pass the ref test, the emissions equipment must remain the same as the donor vehicle (manifold to cats, and cats must be in the same location). but i haven't been able to confirm that f-body headers will fit (probably not). seems that C6 LS2 headers fit just fine without modification, however im not sure if this will fly at the BAR station. i don't know and i can't find any diagrams of 01/02 f-body/C6 LS2 exhaust system to compare (probably cause its 2am on a friggin friday). so…. what headers can i use?? C5 needs modification, don't know about GTO, i could "modify" CARB legal headers?
3. it is my understanding that the harness cannot be modified. to what degree? like, i can leave the engine harness alone and modify the chassis harness to accommodate the pins correctly?
thanks!
Last edited by VlaDeMaN; 05-14-2011 at 12:38 PM.
05-17-2011, 07:29 PM
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I have similar questions, but not much in the way of answers...
If the tranny is controled/interacts with the ECU then I speculate you may get in trouble with a different tranny. I think I've seen discussions that stressed swapping engine and tranny simultaneously, if at all possible. There is one thread on this forum where a guy got in trouble trying to mix a GM engine with a porche (I think) tranny.
I don't think long tube headers are acceptable in any case, though I'm not sure that's actually what you are referring to in question 2. I'm not sure what flexibility you have switching manifolds. If you have CARB legal headers or manifolds for the donor car then you might be ok (again speculation).
I'm all ears regarding the third question...
Sorry I'm not more help...I subscribed to learn...
If the tranny is controled/interacts with the ECU then I speculate you may get in trouble with a different tranny. I think I've seen discussions that stressed swapping engine and tranny simultaneously, if at all possible. There is one thread on this forum where a guy got in trouble trying to mix a GM engine with a porche (I think) tranny.
I don't think long tube headers are acceptable in any case, though I'm not sure that's actually what you are referring to in question 2. I'm not sure what flexibility you have switching manifolds. If you have CARB legal headers or manifolds for the donor car then you might be ok (again speculation).
I'm all ears regarding the third question...
Sorry I'm not more help...I subscribed to learn...
05-17-2011, 09:00 PM
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well, if im picking up a motor form an auto car, the ecu needs to be reflashed with the manual transmission program. im wondering if i do that, will the ref know?
the thing with the headers is the fitment around the steering column. so to be street legal, i can't modify the headers whatsoever. the only one to fit without modding are the c6 ls2 headers, but im not sure that will fly with the state ref.
the thing with the headers is the fitment around the steering column. so to be street legal, i can't modify the headers whatsoever. the only one to fit without modding are the c6 ls2 headers, but im not sure that will fly with the state ref.
05-17-2011, 10:08 PM
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flashing to a manual tranny ECM will clear everything up as far as emissions go - to meet emissions requirements in cali (The only state that specifically cars about manifolds) also requires you to run a "car' motor - meaning an LS series motor - not a truck motor - although if you did a good reflash I doubt the emissions people would know the difference - figured i'd point it out though.
I imagine fitting the manifolds with the stock cats that hang right off of them will probably be tough but i'm not familiar with the 240's.
you can modify the wiring harness as long as the emission systems are fully intact and talking to the ECM and of course that the ECM is seeing all applicable inputs it needs for the emissions tests.
the big ones that aren't in the engine bay are the EGR system - the fuel tank pressure sensor and the vapor pump - you'll probably need to swap your fuel tank press sender for a GM one and wire it up but you can probably run your vapor pump (although technically I believe you need to run the chevy motor swap one to pass emissions)
the hardest wiring for the emissions IMO was the fuel tank sender - in order to run the evap system test the tank needs to be somewhere between 80% & 30% full - according to the range the GM PCM expects (you can find the expected value range on here pretty easily) you can either run two senders (a PITA) or hard wire a resistor in to the fuel level sensor to fool the PCM (the easiest & what I did, also technically not meeting the letter of emissions requirements - though it still can legit complete the test.)
not a lot of folks have dealt with the emissions part of the swap - it isn't particularly difficult but it isn't well documented.
I imagine fitting the manifolds with the stock cats that hang right off of them will probably be tough but i'm not familiar with the 240's.
you can modify the wiring harness as long as the emission systems are fully intact and talking to the ECM and of course that the ECM is seeing all applicable inputs it needs for the emissions tests.
the big ones that aren't in the engine bay are the EGR system - the fuel tank pressure sensor and the vapor pump - you'll probably need to swap your fuel tank press sender for a GM one and wire it up but you can probably run your vapor pump (although technically I believe you need to run the chevy motor swap one to pass emissions)
the hardest wiring for the emissions IMO was the fuel tank sender - in order to run the evap system test the tank needs to be somewhere between 80% & 30% full - according to the range the GM PCM expects (you can find the expected value range on here pretty easily) you can either run two senders (a PITA) or hard wire a resistor in to the fuel level sensor to fool the PCM (the easiest & what I did, also technically not meeting the letter of emissions requirements - though it still can legit complete the test.)
not a lot of folks have dealt with the emissions part of the swap - it isn't particularly difficult but it isn't well documented.
02-09-2012, 01:33 PM
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I know this is an old thread, but in Maryland if you spend $450 or more on emissions related repairs you can get a waver for the life of the car. So you can go in and fail, then have someone do a tune on your car and have them put "emissions" on the bill and turn the reciept in and yur good go go. Hope this helps
02-09-2012, 04:26 PM
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What state are you guys in again? Here what you have to do regardless:
Find the State Vehicle Code Book for you state. This is a FREE resource provided for each state in the us. It has EVERY law regaurding vehicles and highway use. It is a very long document (800+pages in pdf for NC). YOu just have to find the sections on emissions standard, print it out and mod accordingly. Little bit of adivice: bring the actually printed law with you for your inspection=no arguments.
Heres the section from NC as an exmaple:
Chapter 20.
Motor Vehicles.
Article 1.
Division of Motor Vehicles.........
§ 20‑128. Exhaust system and emissions control devices.
(a) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a highway unless such motor vehicle is equipped with a muffler, or other exhaust system of the type installed at the time of manufacture, in good working order and in constant operation to prevent excessive or unusual noise, annoying smoke and smoke screens.
(b) It shall be unlawful to use a "muffler cut‑out" on any motor vehicle upon a highway.
(c) No motor vehicle registered in this State that was manufactured after model year 1967 shall be operated in this State unless it is equipped with emissions control devices that were installed on the vehicle at the time the vehicle was manufactured and these devices are properly connected.
(d) The requirements of subsection (c) of this section shall not apply if the emissions control devices have been removed for the purpose of converting the motor vehicle to operate on natural or liquefied petroleum gas or other modifications have been made in order to reduce air pollution and these modifications are approved by the Department of Environment and Natural Resources. (1937, c. 407, s. 91; 1971, c. 455, s. 1; 1983, c. 132; 1989, c. 727, s. 9; 1997‑443, s. 11A.119(a); 2000‑134, s. 6.)
Then there is a specific section on vehicles 1996 or newer emissions
(b1) Emissions. – An emissions inspection of a motor vehicle consists of a visual inspection of the vehicle's emissions control devices to determine if the devices are present, are properly connected, and are the correct type for the vehicle and an analysis of data provided by the on‑board diagnostic (OBD) equipment installed by the vehicle manufacturer to identify any deterioration or malfunction in the operation of the vehicle that violates standards for the model year of the vehicle set by the Environmental Management Commission. To pass an emissions inspection a vehicle must pass both the visual inspection and the OBD analysis. When an emissions inspection is performed on a vehicle, a safety inspection must be performed on the vehicle as well.
(c) Reinspection After Failure. – The scope of a reinspection of a vehicle that has been repaired after failing an inspection is the same as the original inspection unless the vehicle is presented for reinspection within 60 days of failing the original inspection. If the vehicle is presented for reinspection within this time limit and the inspection the vehicle failed was a safety inspection, the reinspection is limited to an inspection of the equipment that failed the original inspection. If the vehicle is presented for reinspection within this time limit and the inspection the vehicle failed was an emissions inspection, the reinspection is limited to the portion of the inspection the vehicle failed and any other portion of the inspection that would be affected by repairs made to correct the failure. (1965, c. 734, s. 1; 1969, c. 378, s. 2; 1971, c. 455, s. 2; c. 478, ss. 1, 2; 1979, 2nd Sess., c. 1180, s. 3; 1981 (Reg. Sess., 1982), c. 1261, s. 1; 1989, c. 391, s. 2; 1991, c. 654, s. 2; 1993 (Reg. Sess., 1994), c. 754, s. 1; 1995, c. 473, s. 2; 2000‑134, ss. 8, 10, 12; 2001‑504, s. 7; 2007‑364, s. 1.)
Just find out your states laws from the online resource and go from there!
Find the State Vehicle Code Book for you state. This is a FREE resource provided for each state in the us. It has EVERY law regaurding vehicles and highway use. It is a very long document (800+pages in pdf for NC). YOu just have to find the sections on emissions standard, print it out and mod accordingly. Little bit of adivice: bring the actually printed law with you for your inspection=no arguments.
Heres the section from NC as an exmaple:
Chapter 20.
Motor Vehicles.
Article 1.
Division of Motor Vehicles.........
§ 20‑128. Exhaust system and emissions control devices.
(a) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a highway unless such motor vehicle is equipped with a muffler, or other exhaust system of the type installed at the time of manufacture, in good working order and in constant operation to prevent excessive or unusual noise, annoying smoke and smoke screens.
(b) It shall be unlawful to use a "muffler cut‑out" on any motor vehicle upon a highway.
(c) No motor vehicle registered in this State that was manufactured after model year 1967 shall be operated in this State unless it is equipped with emissions control devices that were installed on the vehicle at the time the vehicle was manufactured and these devices are properly connected.
(d) The requirements of subsection (c) of this section shall not apply if the emissions control devices have been removed for the purpose of converting the motor vehicle to operate on natural or liquefied petroleum gas or other modifications have been made in order to reduce air pollution and these modifications are approved by the Department of Environment and Natural Resources. (1937, c. 407, s. 91; 1971, c. 455, s. 1; 1983, c. 132; 1989, c. 727, s. 9; 1997‑443, s. 11A.119(a); 2000‑134, s. 6.)
Then there is a specific section on vehicles 1996 or newer emissions
(b1) Emissions. – An emissions inspection of a motor vehicle consists of a visual inspection of the vehicle's emissions control devices to determine if the devices are present, are properly connected, and are the correct type for the vehicle and an analysis of data provided by the on‑board diagnostic (OBD) equipment installed by the vehicle manufacturer to identify any deterioration or malfunction in the operation of the vehicle that violates standards for the model year of the vehicle set by the Environmental Management Commission. To pass an emissions inspection a vehicle must pass both the visual inspection and the OBD analysis. When an emissions inspection is performed on a vehicle, a safety inspection must be performed on the vehicle as well.
(c) Reinspection After Failure. – The scope of a reinspection of a vehicle that has been repaired after failing an inspection is the same as the original inspection unless the vehicle is presented for reinspection within 60 days of failing the original inspection. If the vehicle is presented for reinspection within this time limit and the inspection the vehicle failed was a safety inspection, the reinspection is limited to an inspection of the equipment that failed the original inspection. If the vehicle is presented for reinspection within this time limit and the inspection the vehicle failed was an emissions inspection, the reinspection is limited to the portion of the inspection the vehicle failed and any other portion of the inspection that would be affected by repairs made to correct the failure. (1965, c. 734, s. 1; 1969, c. 378, s. 2; 1971, c. 455, s. 2; c. 478, ss. 1, 2; 1979, 2nd Sess., c. 1180, s. 3; 1981 (Reg. Sess., 1982), c. 1261, s. 1; 1989, c. 391, s. 2; 1991, c. 654, s. 2; 1993 (Reg. Sess., 1994), c. 754, s. 1; 1995, c. 473, s. 2; 2000‑134, ss. 8, 10, 12; 2001‑504, s. 7; 2007‑364, s. 1.)
Just find out your states laws from the online resource and go from there!
