Originally Posted by fusion_ta66

Sorry to bump an old thread but had a couple of questions:

I have a 67 nova that is currently running a Gen I? 350 with a 621 bellhousing mated to a tko600 (26 spline input shaft). The car has a Keisler hydraulic throw out bearing. I am planning on putting in a LQ9 this winter.

I am wondering what I will have to change for the new motor while keeping the tko600 and Keisler TOB.

So it appears I have 2 options.

1) Use the Sachs 0.400" thicker flywheel and Sachs clutch.
PROS: makes up the 0.400" difference allowing me to keep my same TOB geometry as I have now and also allowing full engagement of the clutch splines on the input shaft. Cheaper.
CONS: Must only use Sachs clutch? Heavier rotating mass? Clutch holding power? Removed flywheel dowels could cause imbalance issues?

2) Use my flywheel/clutch of choice (probably LS7).
PROS: Can choose from a ton of flywheel/clutch options. Lighter rotating mass? More holding power from clutch? Short TOB throw necessary for disengagement?
CONS: 0.400" difference from trans to flywheel. Splines on clutch not fully seated on input shaft. Must make adjustments to hydraulic TOB.

Would the hydraulic TOB adjustment be as simple as shimming it 0.400" from the front of the trans?

Comments?


thanks
Joe

Originally Posted by APillow

Great info. Let me share what has worked for me and what I am working on.

71 C-10: 5.3 LM7, stock 71 truck bell housing, 1050 flywheel (Amazon), 71 stock SBC PP, Astro clutch disc, LS2 Pilot Bearing, stock mechanical linkage with custom Z-Bar mount and shortened Z-Bar, stock short pivot ball, Hamilton Intakes SBC/T5 spacer, S-10 T5, Hurst Mustang short shifter, and shortened stock driveshaft.

Yes, the Astro clutch does not fully line up as noted and photographed earlier. Yes, you have to ***** out the PP bolt holes a tad for the larger metric bolts. Not a big deal at all. So far so good after a couple years use! But I am nice to the non-world class T5, YMMV.

NEW Project, where this info really is coming in handy!

Idea: 2005 5.3 LM7 w LS7 cam, LS1 Flywheel, LS1 PP, conversion LS to Ford pilot bearing (they exist IDK PN yet), Ford Mustang 10 spline 11" clutch disc (2000+), square body aluminum bell housing (many flavors but essentially a 621 - used are cheap!), Wilcap BHA-350-FT5 adapter, Hydraulic TO bearing (TBD), Ford Mustang WC T5 transmission, and custom driveshaft.

The Wilcap BHA-350-FT5 adapter is the best kept secret around for a late GM F-Body T5 or Ford T5 conversion... They did not respond to my e-mail yet on LS conversions... But if they could reduce the adapter plate thickness by .4" then this would be a cake swap!

Honestly, if I can find a cheap GM F-Body T5 with the 28 spline input shaft I will switch up. I just have a Ford T5 in my garage at the moment. The GM T5 would be super easy as you could use any LS based clutch disc, like a full LS7 fly/PP/disc kit which are crazy cheap for the value.

More to come as I collect parts. The hardest part will be finding a stock compatible hydraulic TO bearing, probably Ford... I like to run stock parts whenever possible. In my experiences, the aftermarket stuff is what usually breaks.

Let me know what you guys think!

Originally Posted by Stampede4ever

Does anyone know of any good factory options for a t-5 hydraulic throw out bearing?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by APillow

Incorrect. The V6 T5 in the Gen 4 Camaro/Firebirds has a hydraulic TO bearing.

Saw one yesterday in the pick-n-pull, but the input shaft was all screwed up so I passed on it. The TO bearing did not look healthy either, otherwise I would have grabbed it.

BUT it just shows there is a GM part that can be used! Looked very similar (if not spot on) to the T56 TO bearing. Two offset screw mounting with the hard metal quick disconnects out the bellhousing.

Originally Posted by Stampede4ever

Thats great news on the tob. Does anyone know what the input shaft length is for a muncie four speed?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by garys 68

I've seen and answered a lot of questions on putting a earlier Gen trans behind an LS motor here and in emails. I've done a Richmond 6 speed, Muncie, and T10 (in progress) behind LS motors. So I thought I would cut and paste the various answers in one post (also will remind my feeble mind what I did) If I make any mistakes or you have additions, please post.

Transmissions: Earlier Gen trans had a 6.66" long input shaft with a 0.59" diameter pilot bearing ID. Early T10s and Muncies had 10 spline input, later ones, TKOs, T5s are 26 spline. Richmonds can be either. The spline count will determine your flywheel/clutch. Ford trans have entirely different input shafts and trans/bellhousing bolt patterns. T5s that came from V6 f bodies have the ford trans/bellhousing pattern and wont even bolt up.

Bellhousings: Use a 621 BBC bell housing. It has the correct trans bolt pattern but is missing 1 bolt hole for the motor mounting. Keisler has a version with the added bolt hole. I bought one, it is a nice piece. SBC bellhousings have clearance problems, truck have the wrong diameter bearing retainer. Just get a 621. Be sure to zero it with offset dowels if needed. Some clearancing for the starter may be required.

Pilot bearing: LS7 PN 12557583. It's got the correct ID and seats in the outside flange of the crank. It does leave a gap between the taper on the input shaft, but the shaft does seat the full length into the bearing. There was an extended bearing offered aftermarket, but I dont see any advantage over the $15 LS7 bearing. There are reliable sources on the net that state the ID of the bearing is 22.7mm or (.894") . Don't know where they started, but they're wrong. The ID is 0.59.
One other note on pilot bearing removal. The LS cranks are drilled through the rear flange to the 7/8 journal (no idea why). The only thing that prevents oil from the pan leaking is a pressed in plug. If you use the hydraulic grease/bread method to remove the bearing, you can push the plug into the pan.

Flywheel/clutch: For 26 spline, I've used the LS1 flywheel/clutch. Info here indicates you're best off to buy matching flywheel/clutch combos. One note, the flywheel will be about 0.4" farther from the trans. This means the front of the disks internal splines will run off the splines on the input shaft. I've not heard of anyone having problems with this. It also means you'll need a longer throwout bearing (PT614037) compared to the BBC setup.
For 10 spline you can use a flywheel off an 05 Silverado 1 ton truck (Sachs 1050). It bolts to the crank and is drilled for an old school 11" BBC clutch. For pressure plate and 10 spline disk, just get one for any late 60s/early 70s BBC application. I think transmissions switched to 26 splies around 73, so you can even use this flywheel with a 26 spline clutch. The other advantage is that the flywheel is about 0.400" thicker, so the disk is correctly placed on the trans input shaft and the earlier throwout bearing and clutch fork geometry will be the same as the BBC application. Downside is that flywheels extra thickness comes with extra weight. Oh yeah, and the Sachs 1050 flywheel is about $60, and 11" clutch is only about $120.
The only modification with the sachs flywheel is that it comes with location dowels that need to be removed, no holes on the BBC pressure plate. And 3 of the bolt holes were too small on the pressure plate I got. I only bored them big enough to keep the plate correctly centered. Since there are no locator pins, it might be a good idea to have the flywheewl/pressure plate balanced together. I didn't on mine, but probably would if I did it again. Btw, one aftermarket company (Pace) sells this combo for about $700 with bellhousing, bolts, etc.
http://paceperformance.com/i-5146180...rsion-kit.html

Flywheel/clutch bolts: I bought the GM bolts for the flywheel/crank combo. I'm not sure if all bolts are the same length/thread. Note, the flywheel bolts come with a sealant. The crank flang holes are drilled al the way through, without the sealant oil from the pan can leak through.. If you reuse them, they will leak. Buy new ones. For the pressure plate bolts, I use the ones specific to the flywheel. This is important on the Sachs 1050, since it's threads are deeper. Pressure plate bolt #12561465.

Throwout bearing: The thicker Sachs flywheel will work with the old 1.25" throwout bearing, clutch fork, and pivot ball. An adjustable pivot ball is always a good idea, and here's a good site for clutch for geometry.
http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/clutches_etc.htm
And the shallower LS1 flywheel will require a longer, about 1 3/4", GM throwout bearing (PT614037).
I've never done a hydraulic on this combo, so feel free to add your info.

Speedo/VSS: Most old trans have a mechanical speedo. You can use this but you'll need a VSS signal to the ECU to prevent stalling issues. Dakota Digital sells a pass thru VSS that can be put inline. It can be, but doesnt need to be, tuned to give correct speed and will still prevent stalling issues. It will not provide enough pulses per mile to get a DBW cruise control working properly. One note, Dakota Digital has an unlisted 8" extension cable if you dont have enogh clearance to mount the VSS directly on the trans.

Inspection Plate covers: The oil pan fills in the center section of the bell housing opening. There is a cover on each side that bolt to the block. PN 12558718 and 12561536. Updated numbers 24261712 and 24261713.

Tuning: I dont do any....but....I've had a problem with rpm hanging or even increasing on DBW ECU from auto trans cars when the throttle is dropped and clutch engaged. Not sure if it's related to trans, traction control, etc, but it went away with a manual trans ECU. Maybe someone can help with this.

An LQ9 with LS1 intake, Keisler LS 621 bellhousing, Ls1 clutch, Richmond 6 speed


Sachs 1050 flywheel, pins removed, with 11" BBC 10 spline clutch.
Note 3 bolt holes are smaller and extra thickness of flywheel.



And mounted to an 05 LM59 (flex fuel 5.3)


With a Muncie attached to a standard 621 bellhousing

Originally Posted by BIGRLZ

Hey Gary wanted to know if you ever did that 4-speed with a LS engine because I'm having a problem with the fork for the throw out bearing. I thought about going with a hydraulic clutch, just wanted to see what way you went.
Richard

Originally Posted by BIGRLZ

Hey Gary wanted to know if you ever did that 4-speed with a LS engine because I'm having a problem with the fork for the throw out bearing. I thought about going with a hydraulic clutch, just wanted to see what way you went.
Richard