L33 help for swap into Porsche 944
11-22-2011, 12:42 PM
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L33 help for swap into Porsche 944 Hello,
I'm a noob so please bear with me as I learn about LSx motors.
My plan is to swap a L33 (cause they're cheaper than LS1 in the used market) into a Porsche 944. The car will see track duty 90% of the time but will remain street legal just for kicks. I am looking to build a motor that will rev well and produce a broad power band. I don't need a bunch of torque because it's not a drag car and it's relatively light (2800 lbs). Also, I need to keep an eye on the budget here so if there are common cam grinds, acceptable springs that are not exotic (read expensive), etc that will work for me please let me know. *I plan to ditch the truck intake for a LS1 intake, injectors, etc. Also I will be running a short pipe style header with a custom exhaust with a much free flow as I can get.
Finally, what else do I need to address while I've got the motor on the stand? I will try for the lowest mileage one I can find, I want to avoid a complete rebuild if I can. I know that a new cam will require lifters and springs, I assume push rods too. If the bottom end is in good shape can I just leave it? Will it stand up to a lot of on/off throttle and higher RPMs? Again I don't know much about LSx motors all my experience is with German motors that like to rev.
Thanks in advance for any help. This should be a cool build if I can pull it all together.
-Roo
I'm a noob so please bear with me as I learn about LSx motors.
My plan is to swap a L33 (cause they're cheaper than LS1 in the used market) into a Porsche 944. The car will see track duty 90% of the time but will remain street legal just for kicks. I am looking to build a motor that will rev well and produce a broad power band. I don't need a bunch of torque because it's not a drag car and it's relatively light (2800 lbs). Also, I need to keep an eye on the budget here so if there are common cam grinds, acceptable springs that are not exotic (read expensive), etc that will work for me please let me know. *I plan to ditch the truck intake for a LS1 intake, injectors, etc. Also I will be running a short pipe style header with a custom exhaust with a much free flow as I can get.
Finally, what else do I need to address while I've got the motor on the stand? I will try for the lowest mileage one I can find, I want to avoid a complete rebuild if I can. I know that a new cam will require lifters and springs, I assume push rods too. If the bottom end is in good shape can I just leave it? Will it stand up to a lot of on/off throttle and higher RPMs? Again I don't know much about LSx motors all my experience is with German motors that like to rev.
Thanks in advance for any help. This should be a cool build if I can pull it all together.
-Roo
11-22-2011, 03:41 PM
#2
I meet a guy with a Calif Smog legal 944 a few years back.. so it is doable for sure !
Would try and pickup a use Z06 / LS6 Cam if on a budget (HOT CAM would be a good step up) and some new LS6 Spring.. that would wake up that 5.3 for the track. Spend a little extra on a LS6 Intake and maybe some larger injectors. Use a LS2 timing chain and a new (LS6) oil pump.
If the bottom end looks good, swap out the Rod Bolts for some ARP ones.
IMO Better to spend a little more now than later..
Keep us posted..
BC
Would try and pickup a use Z06 / LS6 Cam if on a budget (HOT CAM would be a good step up) and some new LS6 Spring.. that would wake up that 5.3 for the track. Spend a little extra on a LS6 Intake and maybe some larger injectors. Use a LS2 timing chain and a new (LS6) oil pump.
If the bottom end looks good, swap out the Rod Bolts for some ARP ones.
IMO Better to spend a little more now than later..
Keep us posted..
BC
Last edited by bczee; 11-22-2011 at 04:57 PM.
11-22-2011, 04:40 PM
#3
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I too would do a LS6 cam and matching springs. Either the "yellow" springs, or flip for some good dual springs with titanium retainers. You don't need new lifters when you swap cams. New pushrods should also be added.
I would also do the Katech rod bolts and maybe a ported oil pump. If you will be road racing, an Accusump is highly recommended.
I suspect the above combo should be very good for road racing since it will have a nice torque curve, which will be easier to drive. It should also make about 350rwhp give or take...
Andrew
I would also do the Katech rod bolts and maybe a ported oil pump. If you will be road racing, an Accusump is highly recommended.
I suspect the above combo should be very good for road racing since it will have a nice torque curve, which will be easier to drive. It should also make about 350rwhp give or take...
Andrew
11-22-2011, 04:58 PM
#4
^^^
These guys pretty much covered it. Although, I'd say that 300+ RWHP is a closer estimate w/ that cam & LS6 intake. Also, the mentioned Katech rod bolts are generally preferred in reference to not having to bore the rods due to the rod bolt stretch. Just keep a close eye on rod bearing clearance before & after torquing, to be sure that the proper clearance remains.
I've still got a set of engine mount plates for the LSX swap into a 944. If interested, send me a PM. I'll get 'em to you cheap.
These guys pretty much covered it. Although, I'd say that 300+ RWHP is a closer estimate w/ that cam & LS6 intake. Also, the mentioned Katech rod bolts are generally preferred in reference to not having to bore the rods due to the rod bolt stretch. Just keep a close eye on rod bearing clearance before & after torquing, to be sure that the proper clearance remains.
I've still got a set of engine mount plates for the LSX swap into a 944. If interested, send me a PM. I'll get 'em to you cheap.
11-22-2011, 05:13 PM
#5
auto or t56?
the reason I ask is that if you are going for a budget it would be better to just find a wrecked ls1/t56 car. It will be cheaper in the long run. If you are going auto (odd for a track car) then the l33 would keep is cheaper.
the reason I ask is that if you are going for a budget it would be better to just find a wrecked ls1/t56 car. It will be cheaper in the long run. If you are going auto (odd for a track car) then the l33 would keep is cheaper.
11-22-2011, 11:04 PM
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Fellas, thank you very much for the advice on the cam, springs, push rods, etc. I'll look into katech rod bolts too.
LS1-450 - PM has been sent re. the mounts.
Marky522 is correct, using a C5 bell housing and a custom bracket by the guys at Texas Performance Concepts, you can mate the LSX to the 944 torque tube/transaxle. It helps to have a 944 Turbo transaxle with LSD to put the power down especially if the car is gonna be tracked like I plan to do.
Its going to take a while to pull all the parts together, I'll start a thread and keep it updated once the project really begins. At the moment its all on paper and in my head.
Andrew
LS1-450 - PM has been sent re. the mounts.
Marky522 is correct, using a C5 bell housing and a custom bracket by the guys at Texas Performance Concepts, you can mate the LSX to the 944 torque tube/transaxle. It helps to have a 944 Turbo transaxle with LSD to put the power down especially if the car is gonna be tracked like I plan to do.
Its going to take a while to pull all the parts together, I'll start a thread and keep it updated once the project really begins. At the moment its all on paper and in my head.
Andrew
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11-23-2011, 07:32 AM
#8
Not to mention the trans re-enforcement plate to keep the trans housing from flexing. There's a lot for him to address other than the motor.
11-23-2011, 09:49 AM
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11-23-2011, 11:18 AM
#10
944hybrids.forumotion.com is a great resource for V8 swap info; it's a must read.
If you're going to track the car (track days I assume), you'll likely need to consider an Accusump to ensure you get no oil starvation on long sweeping turns. It's a problem most LSx roadracers have to deal with. Further, I would suggest you spend your money on safety equipment, suspension, and tires. The 951 transaxle with LSD would be a huge improvement.
Andy1
Andy1
If you're going to track the car (track days I assume), you'll likely need to consider an Accusump to ensure you get no oil starvation on long sweeping turns. It's a problem most LSx roadracers have to deal with. Further, I would suggest you spend your money on safety equipment, suspension, and tires. The 951 transaxle with LSD would be a huge improvement.
Andy1
Andy1
11-24-2011, 09:30 AM
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Yeah, I've spent hours on 944hybrids forum already. I'll look into an accusump system, it sounds expensive. I see SLP makes an hi-po oil pump, any thoughts on this unit?
As a few of you have noted, there is a bunch of other stuff to address on a 944 swap besides just dropping in an LSx. I plan to add a cage, 4 point harnesses, address the brakes (big reds, big blacks) and then make sure i stuff enough tire tire under the fenders to keep in on the track and shinny side up. Of course an LSD would be preferred I'll have to find one of those too.......
My parts list is getting pretty long already.
Thanks for all the input and Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours.
-Andrew
As a few of you have noted, there is a bunch of other stuff to address on a 944 swap besides just dropping in an LSx. I plan to add a cage, 4 point harnesses, address the brakes (big reds, big blacks) and then make sure i stuff enough tire tire under the fenders to keep in on the track and shinny side up. Of course an LSD would be preferred I'll have to find one of those too.......
My parts list is getting pretty long already.
Thanks for all the input and Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours.
-Andrew
11-24-2011, 03:16 PM
#12
Andrew,
An Accusump is not expensive especially considering the alternative, which is oil starvation leading to losing the motor. Read up on LSx oiling issues over on the Roadracing section. There's a lot of discussion on that subject.
Look forward to your progress, and ultimate results. Once you get the car on the track, the work starts. You'll need to develope the handling characteristics through methodical testing and adjustment.......Sorry, I'm getting ahead of you, Good luck on the build.
Andy1
Andy1
An Accusump is not expensive especially considering the alternative, which is oil starvation leading to losing the motor. Read up on LSx oiling issues over on the Roadracing section. There's a lot of discussion on that subject.
Look forward to your progress, and ultimate results. Once you get the car on the track, the work starts. You'll need to develope the handling characteristics through methodical testing and adjustment.......Sorry, I'm getting ahead of you, Good luck on the build.
Andy1
Andy1
01-10-2012, 07:17 PM
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I too am doing this same swap. I just purchased my motor (2000 LS1 out of a Camaro SS).
Motor has about 90k on it. I wanted to blow it apart and bore it just a bit to make it an even 6.0L. What do you guys think?
I want to keep it streetable but very aggressive. This will not be a daily driver; just a toy for street/strip.
After looking I thought of Diamond pistons and Scat rods to take care of the bottom for now. Sound good?
I'll probably go with a Quiaffe diff instead of a turbo stocker.
Any advice on the motor work would be much appreciated.
Motor has about 90k on it. I wanted to blow it apart and bore it just a bit to make it an even 6.0L. What do you guys think?
I want to keep it streetable but very aggressive. This will not be a daily driver; just a toy for street/strip.
After looking I thought of Diamond pistons and Scat rods to take care of the bottom for now. Sound good?
I'll probably go with a Quiaffe diff instead of a turbo stocker.
Any advice on the motor work would be much appreciated.
