Sublime Dak

Some more

Verz

iTrader: (21)

Build looks great and love the longtubes and mounts. May have to "borrow" that design but use poly mounts if possible. For trans crossmember I ended up picking up a generic crossmember that ill shorten and make frame plates to work, couldnt pass it up for $10. Also if you have pics of the autometer setup id appreciate it. Arizzo_22@hotmail.com

Just checked out the site and like how you set that up and showing the diff peoples threads with theyre info, will def help future swappers research since all this ls swap infi just popped up in the last 2 months.

Sublime Dak

Thanks! Yeah, there wasn't any single source on swap info. So I figured why not. I have some more stuff to add, but I have been working on another portion of the site. Eventually, I would like to add a verified parts listing, of what works, and what doesn't.

Ranger50

Man, forget the 5.7 Hemi I have on the stand.... Where is the 5.3/4L60?!?!?! It sure beats the 20mpg I get with the 150hp 3.9 I have right now....

jsmith564

Ranger..

You make it sound so... boring. The 3.9 i mean

Ranger50

Don't worry, it drives exactly how I made it sound. Although I believe a sewing machine might be a better powerplant then the 3.9....

jsmith564

It's not fair to compare the SB magnums to the LSX SB, but even the II gen gm SB have more ***** stock for stock gm vs mopar. I don't want to be the one on the mopar hate bandwagon, mopars are respectable, but the 5.2 sitting under the hood of my SCSB dakota is pathetic. Not just the engine, the transmission and gear set up. The whole thing just feels like it was poorly engineered as a whole to work together, and performance wise it leaves a whole lot to be desired, power, driveability, and fuel economy. It's pretty much a slug with v8 sound.

IMHO it's a close call HEMI vs LS1, personally speaking i like the ls1 for simplicity, cost, and parts availability.

Sublime Dak

Pretty much. The LT1/LT4's were better than anything Chrysler or Ford had at the time, they never quite got the respect they deserved due to their short service life, and being overshadowed by the LS1. But, they were very good engines for their time. In fact, if GM hadn't been legally entangled with a Lawsuit over accusations they borrowed Evan's reverse flow cooling idea, they might have continued using them before the LS.

peejay

I wonder how Evans felt they could patent reverse-flow cooling, given that GM had prior art with the '55-58 Pontiac V8s.

Sublime Dak

Not sure, but there was a lawsuit.

Here is more info.
http://www.ipo.org/AM/Template.cfm?S...TMLDisplay.cfm

Vents

iTrader: (9)

http://articles.mopar1973man.com/gen...1-ccd-data-bus

In depth read on how the "CCD Bus" system operates. It's tough to tell from this article just how the airbag system works, but if the airbag module needs to get a binary code sent from the reluctor wheel in the diff to blow the airbags, I don't know if that would go through the PCM, or not. Can anyone help with this issue?

FWIW, according to rhis article, this is why the factory gauges will not work in an engine swap setup. The cluster operates off of the CCD Bus system which is a binary code system transmitted like morse through two wires with a series of voltages. That's how the cluster is setup to work.

I suppose one could simply add a dodge crank position sender to a custom crank trigger, and add in the cam pos sensor (somehow?) while referencing the stock PCM, and it may work, but for after all that mess, autometer gauges start to look really easy...

Vents

iTrader: (9)

http://www.biodsl.com/fsm/08M_Passiv...%20Systems.pdf

Pg3 answered my airbag concerns finally! Looks like the system operates off of an accelerometer inside the ABCM. It's function is totally separate from the ridiculous CCD Bus system on specific trucks. Sweet.

Sublime Dak

When you say factory gauges, you mean the tach, correct? From what I have read (not counting these links you just shared), the PCM should still send the signal to the speedo without signals from the engine. Is this correct? All the other gauges are functioning correctly.

91sonomast

The CCD and serial data systems won't work together, even if the stock Dodge PCM was kept I don't think it will understand what the GM PCM is telling it. So basically it's try fitting a S10 or Silverado cluster, or making your own cluster. I'm going to see if a GM cluster will fit worth a ****, if not then I'm going to break down and order gauges and make a cluster. A piece of plexi shouldn't be too hard to cut to fit properly. I have ideas but no clue if they will work until I try it myself.

Sublime Dak

I was speaking in terms of keeping the gauges for us carb guys, but good info.

For what it's worth, there is a guy on Dak-Dur who was making laser cut gauge panels a while back.

Verz

iTrader: (21)

Who needs laser cut when a dremel and hole saw will get the job done haha. I only wanted to keep the stock cluster for all the dummy lights but I know there are companys that make gauges/panels just for those plus gives me less wiring to figure out teying to make them work because lord knows im not a fan of wiring

Sublime Dak

lol I hear ya. If I ever decide to drop the factory cluster, and PCM, it's all coming out and it's going Autometer. As it is I am having to spend another $119 to make the fuel cell sending unit jive with the factory cluster.

Vents

iTrader: (9)

ALT, Fuel, TS, & Brights, are independent systems im certain of, because they have their own circuits tied into the cluster.

for the rest of the cluster, what I understand (and i may be missing something in the article) the rest of the cluster operates off of the CCD bus signal. Which would jive with my experiences in attempting to swap clusters from differing trucks. The system "talks" i.e. works in concert with the PCM, TCM, Differential speed sensor (hall effect) Central timer module, ABCM, and maybe more on some trucks. These all tie into the CCD system "bus" circuit (twisted pair) which transmits electrical pulses to create binary hex code to the cluster. In other words, without a working CCD Bus system, its not ganna happm' captm'.

If one was determined to use the stock gauges, what you could do is trick the PCM into reading the crank and cam signals from your swapped engine. one could use the dodge crank position sender on a crank trigger with the same pulse per revolution that's on the factory Dodge flywheel / flex-plate, that would give the PCM the idea that it's running correctly, and thereby "talk" to the cluster. The problem there is that you'd be working off of the programmed limitations flashed into the factory PCM, and that's no fun when you want to wind it 7500 rpms (or w/e other limit) and the CCD drops your tach signal because it runs out of "code" to send across the "bus".

Or, you could always build your own Hex generator and drive the CCD bus yourself.

I once swapped a 98 cluster into my 97 truck just for fun. My truck had previously not had a tach installed in the factory dash, but the swapped cluster did. as a result of the swap, the Tach worked, but curiously, the speedometer did not. Try it and see what happens? who knows, it may work for some strange freakish dodge reason.

Sublime Dak

I am talking swapping in a carbed engine, and keeping the PCM to drive the speedo. The cam and crank reference mean nothing in regards to the speedo, so it should work. I can verify as fact, the PCM does not need a cam/crank signal for the rest of the cluster (tach/speedo excluded) to operate as all my gauges work fine with the stock sending units in swapped over into the Chevy engine. The only issue is the fuel sending unit, but only because I am not running the stock tank.

For the EFI guys -

If the PCM receives the VSS signal via the CAB computer, then directs it to the cluster. You could keep the Jtec and simply use the GM PCM to run the engine, depending on the factory sending units to operate the gauges. The only gauge you would be lacking, would be tach, but that's not an issue, and I am still not certain you couldn't simply pick up the tach signal from the coil. So no, the GM PCM wouldn't be controlling the gauges, but it wouldn't have to as the Jtec would be handling all that.

Vents

iTrader: (9)

OIC. I thought you were asking about the tach operation specifically.
the speedometer may very well work without the crank and cam signals to the dodge PCM. I hope it does, less headache fo sho.

Right now, I do not think that the stock speedometer will work without a functioning CCD Bus system. For that I'm convinced at this point that the stock PCM will be needed to run the bus aspect of cluster. Now, whether it needs to get the cam / crank signal or not for the speedometer, IDK. Reason being, the only wiring that can account for the speedometer signal that goes into the cluster itself is the CCD Bus pair. I had looked over my old all data diagrams just to double check.

Also, the stock GM Pcm Has a tack refrencable wire easily spliced into for an aftermarket tach.