World's easiest 5.3 swap--Dodge Dakota
06-03-2016, 04:22 PM
#121
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Help OK, since you're here on LS1Tech, you know there is no such thing as an easy engine swap. So, let's call this one, "The world's least difficult 5.3 engine swap".
So many of the difficulties with engine swaps just don't exist with this Chevy-Kota swap:
1. Oil pan clears the crossmember with no mods to either. Oil pan only hangs down below the crossmember about 3/4".
2. Number 7 coil pack clears the brake booster.
3. Steering shaft has plenty of room next to the exhaust manifold.
4. Battery is in the right spot for Chevy cables.
5. Chevy ECM and fuse panel tuck in nicely around battery.
6. Transmission mount is right in the middle of the Dakota crossmember.
7. Trans tunnel only needs pinch weld hammered a little for easy bellhousing bolt access.
8. Dodge column shifter works with some minor linkage mods.
9. Plenty of electric fan clearance (at least in the 91-96 models, 87-90 might need Corvette or Camaro accessories)
10. And the motor mounts are simple plates double drilled for the Chevy block and the Dodge rubber mounts.
There is one clearance issue--the passenger side exhaust manifold has to have the EGR boss removed and a patch welded in to clear the upper control arm. And the down tube has a couple of tight bends to get past the frame rail.
There's a lot to like about this swap beside the relative lack of difficulty. You end up with a truck that's roomier than an S10, can carry more, has bigger brakes, has an 8.25" diff, and still weighs about a thousand pounds less than a full size pickup.
And they are cheap. You'll probably need to invest in paint--we're all familar with scabby Dodge paint in the late '80s and '90s.
Here's a photo of almost finished swap.
So many of the difficulties with engine swaps just don't exist with this Chevy-Kota swap:
1. Oil pan clears the crossmember with no mods to either. Oil pan only hangs down below the crossmember about 3/4".
2. Number 7 coil pack clears the brake booster.
3. Steering shaft has plenty of room next to the exhaust manifold.
4. Battery is in the right spot for Chevy cables.
5. Chevy ECM and fuse panel tuck in nicely around battery.
6. Transmission mount is right in the middle of the Dakota crossmember.
7. Trans tunnel only needs pinch weld hammered a little for easy bellhousing bolt access.
8. Dodge column shifter works with some minor linkage mods.
9. Plenty of electric fan clearance (at least in the 91-96 models, 87-90 might need Corvette or Camaro accessories)
10. And the motor mounts are simple plates double drilled for the Chevy block and the Dodge rubber mounts.
There is one clearance issue--the passenger side exhaust manifold has to have the EGR boss removed and a patch welded in to clear the upper control arm. And the down tube has a couple of tight bends to get past the frame rail.
There's a lot to like about this swap beside the relative lack of difficulty. You end up with a truck that's roomier than an S10, can carry more, has bigger brakes, has an 8.25" diff, and still weighs about a thousand pounds less than a full size pickup.
And they are cheap. You'll probably need to invest in paint--we're all familar with scabby Dodge paint in the late '80s and '90s.
Here's a photo of almost finished swap.
06-03-2016, 05:43 PM
#122
09-24-2016, 01:29 AM
#123
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Ls swap I'm seriously contemplating doing an Ls swap on my 03 Dodge Durango. Any thoughts and maybe parts I will need for this swap. I'm not worried about fab work I do that kind of stuff already at work.
09-24-2016, 07:11 AM
#124
09-25-2016, 10:56 AM
#125
I wish i had found this sooner. At work i sometimes drive a 99 or 00 Dakota, not sure which year it is, but if is one of those 2. Anyway, after swapping an LR4 into my 87 S-10, including changing the steering shaft and the right upper control arm, and trying the 98-99 Z28 exhaust manifolds, I pulled it back out and now my S-dime is driving around with an older SBC V8. I still have my LR4 LSx.
I must disagree about the Dakota being roomier inside, whether comparing it to the boxy S-10s or the newer rounder ones. S-10 brakes got upgraded for 98, and they got the 8.5" axle around 94, with 4.3/ 5M and ZR2 versions, but the Dakota RT 5.9 got a 9.25" axle, though it is rare.
I'm glad to see it shown with the 4L60E, but the very first pic doesn't look like the truck intake manifold, which intake was it?
I must disagree about the Dakota being roomier inside, whether comparing it to the boxy S-10s or the newer rounder ones. S-10 brakes got upgraded for 98, and they got the 8.5" axle around 94, with 4.3/ 5M and ZR2 versions, but the Dakota RT 5.9 got a 9.25" axle, though it is rare.
I'm glad to see it shown with the 4L60E, but the very first pic doesn't look like the truck intake manifold, which intake was it?
09-25-2016, 11:23 AM
#126
Also need to note, i had the 8.25" axle in the 95 Cherokee 4.0 i just got rid of, it was only 27 spline, and was grinding noisily, seemed to be the right puter bearing. Later 8.25s got upgraded to 29 spline, but had i kept my Cherokee, I would have given it an Explorer 8.8, as i did my 87 S-10
02-10-2017, 06:23 AM
#128
Driveshaft is easy. Just find a local driveshaft shop and have the modify or make a new custom shaft with the correct length and ends. Or pick on of the many mail-order driveshaft shops. Shoulcn't cost more than $300-400, with new universals on each end.
02-11-2017, 09:07 AM
#129
Carolina Drive Line is local to me. They do a lot of the 4x4 stuff and have been featured on TV a couple times. The last time I had a drive shaft modified with new U joints it cost me $80. The last time I had new shafts made for a Jeep CJ5 by them cost me $250 per shaft, and that was all new, not just new tubing and U joints. The Dakota shaft should hold the power of a stock 4.8/5.3 so modifying it as needed shouldn't be a problem.
11-16-2017, 02:01 AM
#130
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Wanting to do a ls or 350 swap in my 99 Durango 2 wheel drive Do I have to change the drive shaft???? I want to go carburetor and mechanical gauges and do away with all electronics??? Help would be greatly appreciated
11-16-2017, 06:35 AM
#131
With the info here, no. The drive shaft(s) can be modified by a quality shop. It never hurts to have the donor vehicle's shafts, if it's longer. It's easier and cheaper to cut down a shaft than to lengthen it. As far as carb 350 VS FI LS, go LS. It will be far superior with way better performance and fuel mileage. With the info and vendors on this thread, it would be the same or cheaper to go FI LS. The old small block is becoming a low power antiquated dinosaur.
02-09-2018, 10:12 AM
#132
I'm also looking to swap out a tired 5.9 and 46RE trans from my 1998 4WD Durango for a Gen 3 LS V8 and 4L80 trans. What I'd like to brainstorm is the tach function no one has cracked. I'm writing a spreadsheet to compare functions between the Dodge and Chevy PCMs (am planning to use the unlimited vehicle 1998 F-body PCM with HP Tuners). Combined with my 1998 Durango shop manual, there is a lot of info. As others have noted here, it appears all of the gauges can be operated by piggybacking the two PCMs thanks to the Dodge picking up speed sensing from the rear differential.
The tach problem boils down to the GM using a 24x wheel while the Dodge is 8x. The GM system sees 24 pulses per rev (PPR) while the Dodge only sees 8. In theory, this should result in the Dodge tach reading 3x as high.
I don't know enough about electronics, but it appears that since this is a 3:1 ratio it should be adaptable somehow- such as filtering out 2/3 of the pulses. I'm going to reach out to some electronics sites and see if this is feasible, and I'll update here if I have any success.
EDIT
In lieu of reinventing the wheel, it seems like I could use the adjustable (via HP Tuners) tach output of the GM PCM. The default LS1 square wave signal output by the tach wire is 2 pulses per rev (PPR).
I forgot about some tach research I had written a few years back on HP Tuners to get some foreign car tachs working after a swap:
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...der-tachometer
I think I have figured this out. Since I have to multiply N*2, my 8 PPR N value is 1.5, which x2 is 3. Accordingly, HP Tuners settings of 3 high and 3 low should render an 8 PPR square wave signal that could be fed to the Dodge PCM.
The tach problem boils down to the GM using a 24x wheel while the Dodge is 8x. The GM system sees 24 pulses per rev (PPR) while the Dodge only sees 8. In theory, this should result in the Dodge tach reading 3x as high.
I don't know enough about electronics, but it appears that since this is a 3:1 ratio it should be adaptable somehow- such as filtering out 2/3 of the pulses. I'm going to reach out to some electronics sites and see if this is feasible, and I'll update here if I have any success.
EDIT
In lieu of reinventing the wheel, it seems like I could use the adjustable (via HP Tuners) tach output of the GM PCM. The default LS1 square wave signal output by the tach wire is 2 pulses per rev (PPR).
I forgot about some tach research I had written a few years back on HP Tuners to get some foreign car tachs working after a swap:
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...der-tachometer
The number of crankshaft medium resolution pulses (24x pulses) to hold the tach output high (should match {G1205} "Tach Pulses Low").
The number of output pulses P is calculated as P=24/(N*2) where N is the value of this calibration.
Sample values for this calibration:
For 4 pulses, use N= 3 (Note- 8 cylinder tach setting)
For 3 pulses, use N= 4 (Note- 6 cylinder tach setting)
For 2 pulses, use N= 6 (Note- LSx 8 cylinder & 4 cylinder tach setting)
N= 6 same as you see in HPT (for Gen 3 motors)
Pulse Calculator: V8 tach reads 8 pulses (4x2) per revolution, so 24/8=3. 6 cylinder reads 6 pulses (3x2) per revolution, so 24/6=4. 4 cylinder reads 4 pulses (2x2) per revolution, so 24/4=6. These are the "N" numbers for above that are plugged into the HP Tuners Tach Output fields.
The number of output pulses P is calculated as P=24/(N*2) where N is the value of this calibration.
Sample values for this calibration:
For 4 pulses, use N= 3 (Note- 8 cylinder tach setting)
For 3 pulses, use N= 4 (Note- 6 cylinder tach setting)
For 2 pulses, use N= 6 (Note- LSx 8 cylinder & 4 cylinder tach setting)
N= 6 same as you see in HPT (for Gen 3 motors)
Pulse Calculator: V8 tach reads 8 pulses (4x2) per revolution, so 24/8=3. 6 cylinder reads 6 pulses (3x2) per revolution, so 24/6=4. 4 cylinder reads 4 pulses (2x2) per revolution, so 24/4=6. These are the "N" numbers for above that are plugged into the HP Tuners Tach Output fields.
Last edited by V8 Supra Builder; 02-09-2018 at 11:29 AM. Reason: New info
02-09-2018, 11:40 AM
#133
I'm also looking to swap out a tired 5.9 and 46RE trans from my 1998 4WD Durango for a Gen 3 LS V8 and 4L80 trans. What I'd like to brainstorm is the tach function no one has cracked. I'm writing a spreadsheet to compare functions between the Dodge and Chevy PCMs (am planning to use the unlimited vehicle 1998 F-body PCM with HP Tuners). Combined with my 1998 Durango shop manual, there is a lot of info. As others have noted here, it appears all of the gauges can be operated by piggybacking the two PCMs thanks to the Dodge picking up speed sensing from the rear differential.
The tach problem boils down to the GM using a 24x wheel while the Dodge is 8x. The GM system sees 24 pulses per rev (PPR) while the Dodge only sees 8. In theory, this should result in the Dodge tach reading 3x as high.
I don't know enough about electronics, but it appears that since this is a 3:1 ratio it should be adaptable somehow- such as filtering out 2/3 of the pulses. I'm going to reach out to some electronics sites and see if this is feasible, and I'll update here if I have any success.
EDIT
In lieu of reinventing the wheel, it seems like I could use the adjustable (via HP Tuners) tach output of the GM PCM. The default LS1 square wave signal output by the tach wire is 2 pulses per rev (PPR).
I forgot about some tach research I had written a few years back on HP Tuners to get some foreign car tachs working after a swap:
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...der-tachometer
I think I have figured this out. Since I have to multiply N*2, my 8 PPR N value is 1.5, which x2 is 3. Accordingly, HP Tuners settings of 3 high and 3 low should render an 8 PPR square wave signal that could be fed to the Dodge PCM.
The tach problem boils down to the GM using a 24x wheel while the Dodge is 8x. The GM system sees 24 pulses per rev (PPR) while the Dodge only sees 8. In theory, this should result in the Dodge tach reading 3x as high.
I don't know enough about electronics, but it appears that since this is a 3:1 ratio it should be adaptable somehow- such as filtering out 2/3 of the pulses. I'm going to reach out to some electronics sites and see if this is feasible, and I'll update here if I have any success.
EDIT
In lieu of reinventing the wheel, it seems like I could use the adjustable (via HP Tuners) tach output of the GM PCM. The default LS1 square wave signal output by the tach wire is 2 pulses per rev (PPR).
I forgot about some tach research I had written a few years back on HP Tuners to get some foreign car tachs working after a swap:
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...der-tachometer
I think I have figured this out. Since I have to multiply N*2, my 8 PPR N value is 1.5, which x2 is 3. Accordingly, HP Tuners settings of 3 high and 3 low should render an 8 PPR square wave signal that could be fed to the Dodge PCM.
02-09-2018, 04:03 PM
#135
If it generates a square wave 8 PPR signal, that should work. The tach is dependent upon the signal from the PCM. If that can be fixed, everything should work properly- such as the overhead console with MPG display.
I looked into alternators just now & found this:
http://www.amplepower.com/primer/tach/index.html
I looked for pulse and pole info for GM alternators and didn't see anything definite.
I have used one of these before and the company is very helpful with tech questions:
http://www.bakerelectronix.com/products_tsd/
That model has a 1/3 multiplier setting that could work. I'm sure they have the know how to say if it will or not. I've reached out to them via email but since it's the end of the week I'll probably not hear anything for a few days. If that works, it's a $50 solution.
I looked into alternators just now & found this:
http://www.amplepower.com/primer/tach/index.html
Number of Poles
The frequency of signals from the alternator depends on the number of magnetic poles in the alternator. Ample Power alternators have seven poles in the small frame units and six poles in the large frames. These produce seven and six signals per revolution.
The frequency of signals from the alternator depends on the number of magnetic poles in the alternator. Ample Power alternators have seven poles in the small frame units and six poles in the large frames. These produce seven and six signals per revolution.
I have used one of these before and the company is very helpful with tech questions:
http://www.bakerelectronix.com/products_tsd/
The ATSD module is essential for anyone who is installing an engine into a vehicle that was equipped with a tachometer designed for an engine with a different number of cylinder. The ATSD module divides, or multiplies, the tachometer signal's frequency. The TSD/ATSD also converts the single to a standard 0V to 12V pulse to operate your original stock tachometer. The ATSD comes with eight standard settings, that you can switch between.
02-09-2018, 04:35 PM
#137
I wrote up a small diagram as to how the Baker TSD would work, and have attached it as a PDF. I stamped it as untested theory since it is untested. I welcome any constructive feedback for it. One potential problem I see is the GM using 12V and the Dodge using 5V, but the GM signal does not splice in to the Dodge PCM directly.
I'll update after I hear back from the vendor.
I'll update after I hear back from the vendor.
Last edited by V8 Supra Builder; 02-09-2018 at 06:26 PM. Reason: Corrected attachment
02-10-2018, 09:09 PM
#140
Wiring guide and spreadsheet I have drafted a wiring guide for my 1998 Durango using a Gen 3 V8 and 1998 F-Body PCM and also a spreadsheet listing pinouts for both PCMs with my notes and credit to LT1swap.com for the GM pinouts. I'm attaching both for reference.
EDIT- will contain latest update info
2/10: I have added a couple of pics to the guide and re-uploaded the latest version. Also edited the HP Tuners option diagram as there was a wire misrouted & missing.
2/11: Corrected transposed HPT tach adapter wire colors, found a source for Mopar wiring info & added circuit and gauge info to spreadsheet along with a few other items such as transfer cases. Latest update includes Park/Neutral and backup lamp wiring details as well as additional info on the spreadsheet.
2/12: Added transfer case info and wiring, and updated spreadsheet.
Will add more as I find it.
EDIT- will contain latest update info
2/10: I have added a couple of pics to the guide and re-uploaded the latest version. Also edited the HP Tuners option diagram as there was a wire misrouted & missing.
2/11: Corrected transposed HPT tach adapter wire colors, found a source for Mopar wiring info & added circuit and gauge info to spreadsheet along with a few other items such as transfer cases. Latest update includes Park/Neutral and backup lamp wiring details as well as additional info on the spreadsheet.
2/12: Added transfer case info and wiring, and updated spreadsheet.
Will add more as I find it.
Last edited by V8 Supra Builder; 02-12-2018 at 11:37 AM. Reason: Revised spreadsheet and PDF