67 Camaro swap, project "belly button"
01-05-2014, 12:23 PM
#82
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Whoa whoa whoa, slow down there MisterD! You are making a trademark TheBandit move overthinking this whole engine/tranny angle thing. I got a whiff of this in the other thread, but didn't realize how extensive of an issue you were having so I'll go ahead and chime in here with my non-expert opinion. Here it comes.. Go back to where you started!
Use whatever mounting that gave you appropriate header clearance, accessory clearance, tunnel clearance etc. If the angle ends up being 4.5* downward, SO WHAT! That isn't going to make a lick of difference in how your driveshaft performs as long as you adjust the pinion angle appropriately to match (in this example, 4.5* upward minus a couple degrees to compensate for movement under load). Finish this swap, get the car on the ground with the springs settled, then measure both the pinion angle relative to the grund and the transmission output angle relative to the ground. See what the difference is - this is your pinion angle (u-joint operating angle). You want the pinion pointed slightly down relative to the transmission to compensate for it rotating upward under load. The goal is to match the u-joint operating angles in equal and opposite directions to prevent binding. Minor mismatch is not going to hurt anything. The pinion angle can be adjusted by using tapered shims or by cutting and rewelding the spring perches as appropriate.
Use whatever mounting that gave you appropriate header clearance, accessory clearance, tunnel clearance etc. If the angle ends up being 4.5* downward, SO WHAT! That isn't going to make a lick of difference in how your driveshaft performs as long as you adjust the pinion angle appropriately to match (in this example, 4.5* upward minus a couple degrees to compensate for movement under load). Finish this swap, get the car on the ground with the springs settled, then measure both the pinion angle relative to the grund and the transmission output angle relative to the ground. See what the difference is - this is your pinion angle (u-joint operating angle). You want the pinion pointed slightly down relative to the transmission to compensate for it rotating upward under load. The goal is to match the u-joint operating angles in equal and opposite directions to prevent binding. Minor mismatch is not going to hurt anything. The pinion angle can be adjusted by using tapered shims or by cutting and rewelding the spring perches as appropriate.
Just finished up my LS/T56 swap on my personal 68' Camaro and used the std tall small block mounts with the Dirty Dingo slider adjustable engine plates, SpeedTech / ATS T56 trans crossmember
engine and trans sit @ 3.5*
factory 12 bolt sits at 3.0* ( needed small pinion shims, as mention by Bandit)
car has ATS/ Lee Mfg 670 (12.7:1)steering box and Dougs long tube headers (#D3337)
Both fitment and clearances are great!
Jeff
01-05-2014, 12:34 PM
#83
There's a movie that I saw way back in the mid-'70s that contributed to my love for 1st Gen Camaros. It's pretty obscure, but the name of it is "Aloha Bobby and Rose". The guy has a cool '68 Camaro, and that's the best part of the whole movie. Paul Le Mat is the main character, and he's also the guy that drove the yellow coupe in American Graffiti. Hard movie to find, but worth a watch if you can locate it.
Bill B.
Bill B.
02-24-2014, 01:58 PM
#84
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Update:
It is with great sorrow and a very heavy heart that I share this post. My father passed away February 7th due to complications with esophageal cancer. It was a very hard fought battle that he endured and willingly embarked upon because he loved life and his family dearly. Those of us closest to him really kept our heads in the game and focused solely on recovery. It was not until approximately 24hrs prior to his passing that we felt he might not make it. My father was my "go to guy" and his presence in this world is sorely missed. I know the show must go on so I plan to get some work done on the car and hope to have it running by Fall 2014 (even without paint/body work etc). It is the least I can do. Thank you to all who offered their prayers and support during this difficult time since diagnosis back in July, especially Bandit for reaching out to our family and sharing his story. Here are some photos of my dad with some of the cars we worked on over the years, including the camaro..
It is with great sorrow and a very heavy heart that I share this post. My father passed away February 7th due to complications with esophageal cancer. It was a very hard fought battle that he endured and willingly embarked upon because he loved life and his family dearly. Those of us closest to him really kept our heads in the game and focused solely on recovery. It was not until approximately 24hrs prior to his passing that we felt he might not make it. My father was my "go to guy" and his presence in this world is sorely missed. I know the show must go on so I plan to get some work done on the car and hope to have it running by Fall 2014 (even without paint/body work etc). It is the least I can do. Thank you to all who offered their prayers and support during this difficult time since diagnosis back in July, especially Bandit for reaching out to our family and sharing his story. Here are some photos of my dad with some of the cars we worked on over the years, including the camaro..
02-24-2014, 07:04 PM
#88
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I pray for peace and comfort for you and the rest of your family. As others said, THANK YOU for sharing the pictures with us and for keeping us updated on everything that has been going on. You had a father to be proud of, and I'm sure he was very proud of you as well !!
02-25-2014, 05:59 AM
#89
May your father rest in peace now, and I pray that God will bring you and your family the kind of comfort that only He can give. Your father has given you a lot of great memories to hold onto and cherish. He'll never be forgotten.
God bless,
Bill B.
God bless,
Bill B.
02-25-2014, 05:37 PM
#95
Daniel,
Words can not express my deep sadness at the news that your dad has died. I was full of hope for his recovery and this is devastating news. He fought hard and he did not deserve to be taken on such short notice. You and your family did not deserve this. Tell me, what can I do to help you? Do you need someone to wrench with? Someone to talk to? Does the family need financial help? Don't hesitate to ask.
I love the photos you posted! They clearly show a happy and engaged father. His smile is contagious, even as I fight back tears. That last photo of him and the Camaro with a thumbs up is almost like a salute of trust for you to carry this project forward. As you work through the empty feeling of losing such a special person, I hope you can find solace in happy memories and lessons passed down.
Please give the link below a read, especially the section on "Coping with Loss" (page 6). I know this may be the last thing you want to look at, but take some of these ideas into consideration as you help yourself and your family get through this. http://www.cancer.org/acs/groups/cid...002826-pdf.pdf
Again, please let me know how I can help.
Words can not express my deep sadness at the news that your dad has died. I was full of hope for his recovery and this is devastating news. He fought hard and he did not deserve to be taken on such short notice. You and your family did not deserve this. Tell me, what can I do to help you? Do you need someone to wrench with? Someone to talk to? Does the family need financial help? Don't hesitate to ask.
I love the photos you posted! They clearly show a happy and engaged father. His smile is contagious, even as I fight back tears. That last photo of him and the Camaro with a thumbs up is almost like a salute of trust for you to carry this project forward. As you work through the empty feeling of losing such a special person, I hope you can find solace in happy memories and lessons passed down.
Please give the link below a read, especially the section on "Coping with Loss" (page 6). I know this may be the last thing you want to look at, but take some of these ideas into consideration as you help yourself and your family get through this. http://www.cancer.org/acs/groups/cid...002826-pdf.pdf
Again, please let me know how I can help.
04-11-2014, 11:40 AM
#97
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
First off I would like to thank everyone for their condolences, my family and I truly appreciate it.
Camaro update:
Currently it is a tough time for my family and I but I felt the need to do something to the camaro so that we can get it running soon. I hope to take her for a run this Fall to Northern California. At least it gives me something to shoot for.
My father-in-law and I got started on completing the rust repair in the trunk. Here are some pictures from this past weekend:
Start -
Broke in the new Millermatic 211:
Copper weld through primer and tacked in:
Still need to do a little more grinding and connect the dots (or tacks) but I was satisfied with how it turned out considering I have never welded on the car before. A lot of practice on the bench does not equate to welding on thin rusty sheet metal. That stuff is like wet tissue paper! And I also learned not to over do it with the weld through primer. In the end it was a good place to learn since the trunk will not be seen too much. I plan on adding some seam sealer and moving on to the other shock tower.
I was also side tracked a little by my cousin who wanted to come over and install 4 wheel CPP disk brakes on his 64 Malibu. This was his mom's car since high school. Always in California, no rust at all. He is psyched to have picked up a new set of wheels. Actually, working on his car is what got me motivated to press on with the camaro so I appreciate that.
Malibu:
And here is a little mock up of his new wheels next to the Camaro, not sure I want to go so flashy with my wheels when the day comes. I wish I could squeeze the rallies with the 4th gen camaro (LS) brakes but that is not going to happen.
Finally I was able to clean/paint/and rebuild the parking brake set up for the rear brakes:
That is it for now. I am not teaching this semester so I have a little extra free time on evenings and weekends to get more work done on the car. Next I will finish the trunk patch panels, install rear brakes on Moser rear end, install Moser and hotchkis drop leafs in the car, install gas tank run lines etc. I also have to decide on the placement of the engine so that I can move on. Either way, it looks like I will need to order the Holley alternator bracket and spacers for F-body accessories to move the alternator up high. The only way to squeeze the stock low mount location was to raise the engine up as high as it will go and that leaves no adjustment for engine angle. I will compromise and keep the engine at about 4 degrees down. If I get a bad vibe I will deal with that later.
One last thing, if anyone knows of an "off the shelf" spoke style 18" wheel that will clear the 4th gen brakes that would be great. I was looking at the Rocket Booster wheels because they seem to be the only ones I found with the correct backspacing for the rears. The boss 338 stick out way too far for the rear drop planned for this car. I would like to run a 275 rear tire. Thought about a custom set of billet stock looking wheels with dog dish caps but they are expensive!!! We will see... Here is a shot of those wheels on a chevy truck:
These are 17" billet but look like stock steelies with poverty caps. This is the exact "subtle" look I was shooting for but I might be priced out of these when the car is all said and done. I just need to get her running for now
Thanks again to everyone for their condolences and moral support with this project...
Camaro update:
Currently it is a tough time for my family and I but I felt the need to do something to the camaro so that we can get it running soon. I hope to take her for a run this Fall to Northern California. At least it gives me something to shoot for.
My father-in-law and I got started on completing the rust repair in the trunk. Here are some pictures from this past weekend:
Start -
Broke in the new Millermatic 211:
Copper weld through primer and tacked in:
Still need to do a little more grinding and connect the dots (or tacks) but I was satisfied with how it turned out considering I have never welded on the car before. A lot of practice on the bench does not equate to welding on thin rusty sheet metal. That stuff is like wet tissue paper! And I also learned not to over do it with the weld through primer. In the end it was a good place to learn since the trunk will not be seen too much. I plan on adding some seam sealer and moving on to the other shock tower.
I was also side tracked a little by my cousin who wanted to come over and install 4 wheel CPP disk brakes on his 64 Malibu. This was his mom's car since high school. Always in California, no rust at all. He is psyched to have picked up a new set of wheels. Actually, working on his car is what got me motivated to press on with the camaro so I appreciate that.
Malibu:
And here is a little mock up of his new wheels next to the Camaro, not sure I want to go so flashy with my wheels when the day comes. I wish I could squeeze the rallies with the 4th gen camaro (LS) brakes but that is not going to happen.
Finally I was able to clean/paint/and rebuild the parking brake set up for the rear brakes:
That is it for now. I am not teaching this semester so I have a little extra free time on evenings and weekends to get more work done on the car. Next I will finish the trunk patch panels, install rear brakes on Moser rear end, install Moser and hotchkis drop leafs in the car, install gas tank run lines etc. I also have to decide on the placement of the engine so that I can move on. Either way, it looks like I will need to order the Holley alternator bracket and spacers for F-body accessories to move the alternator up high. The only way to squeeze the stock low mount location was to raise the engine up as high as it will go and that leaves no adjustment for engine angle. I will compromise and keep the engine at about 4 degrees down. If I get a bad vibe I will deal with that later.
One last thing, if anyone knows of an "off the shelf" spoke style 18" wheel that will clear the 4th gen brakes that would be great. I was looking at the Rocket Booster wheels because they seem to be the only ones I found with the correct backspacing for the rears. The boss 338 stick out way too far for the rear drop planned for this car. I would like to run a 275 rear tire. Thought about a custom set of billet stock looking wheels with dog dish caps but they are expensive!!! We will see... Here is a shot of those wheels on a chevy truck:
These are 17" billet but look like stock steelies with poverty caps. This is the exact "subtle" look I was shooting for but I might be priced out of these when the car is all said and done. I just need to get her running for now
Thanks again to everyone for their condolences and moral support with this project...
04-12-2014, 07:40 AM
#99
Wheel Vintiques has the Rallye wheel in 18" diameter, and they may have other options. I'm guessing this is where you've been looking already, but if not, here's a link to their website.
http://www.wheelvintiques.com/index.php/
Bill B.
http://www.wheelvintiques.com/index.php/
Bill B.
04-12-2014, 08:02 PM
#100
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How about a 17" x 9" O.E. Chevy - Bare from Wheel Vintiques? Or one of their Rally wheels. Even a 16" wheel should clear the LS1 F-body brakes just fine. I just don't see the point of an 18" wheel that looks like a stock steelie and poverty caps on your Camaro, but that's just my opinion and it differs from most people. I think 16" x 8" steel wheels and poverty caps so the car has a COPO look to it while being very capable suspension wise would be sick. Your car....build it the way you want....always!