64-67 GM A-Body Headers - A list of what fits and what doesn't
11-01-2014, 09:56 PM
#1
64-67 GM A-Body Headers - A list of what fits and what doesn't Hey Guys. I am deep into an LS conversion in my 66 GTO and I have been playing with headers to see what fits and what doesn't. I am SHOCKED to see that more manufacturers are not wanting to dive into the 64-67 arena.
I have tried a few options and thought I would give you the low down.
First, here is what I am using for setting the engine in the car:
I currently have the Hooker A-body stock location engine adapters, Energy Suspension short and wide mounts and Car Shop BOP to Chevy frame adapters. This puts the engine in the stock location and serves as a starting point for all other discussions. I shied away from the Dirty Dingo mounts because from what I read they only move the engine forward from the stock location and will put the engine up another 1/4" higher. I am trying to keep the engine as low as possible to minimize DL angles. Note that the Hooker stock location mounts are IDENTICAL to the Doug's SK-100 except that the Doug's has an extra set of holes that can position the engine forward 3/4" from stock.
Dougs D-3336R
Based on recommendations from others on the various forums, my first choice was the Dougs D3336R headers. They fit through the frame just fine, they clear the steering column with room to spare and there is plenty of room between the suspension and the headers to minimize heat transfer to the suspension. That being said, the MAJOR drawback is that they are REALLY tight to the floor boards and are very close to the cross member. I probably have 1/4 - 3/8" between the header v-band clamp and the floor pans and 3" from the end of the header and the cross member. This does not leave much room for movement and does not leave much room to snake around the cross member with pipe. In order to make these work, I will have to shorten the header by cutting the v-band adapter pieces loose and relocate them forward near the O2 bungs. This should allow the exhaust to clear the cross member. This is a bit of a project to get them to fit. These would be better if they were about 1-2" lower, but Doug's is not willing to listen to me and the issues that are apparent with these headers. FYI...Made is Mexico.
Kooks 6450-S-0711:
While they say that these will fit the 64-72 A-body, don't waste your time. The only way these will fit in this car is if you would cut out the cross member and the lower control arm pockets. They are a quality header, but no cigar on fitment. Made in USA.
Flowmaster 814116:
These are an EXACT copy of the Doug's except that these use ball and socket clamps instead of the v-band clamps. I honestly think that Doug's makes these for Flowmaster because the tube routing was identical and the welds were in the exact same location as the D3336 headers. Also made in Mexico.
Ultimate Headers Mid Length.
I stumbled across this company in a web search when I was looking for alternatives to the D3336 headers. After talking with Jim Browning (owner) he immediately sent me a set of mock up headers to try. Even though the headers did not fit perfectly, there is some serious potential for these headers. The passenger header needs some tweaking to get it to fit inside the frame rail and the drivers side needs some tweaking to get the 3rd tube away from the steering column. I took a butt load of pictures and sent these to Jim for his consideration. Once Jim has the necessary tweaks incorporated, he will be getting back to me with another set to try. These are exceptional quality and the ball and socket clamp system allows you to get the exhaust right where you want it to minimize the exhaust modifications. Jim is a great guy to deal with and is really interested in making a product that works. Made in USA!
American Racing Headers
These are modeled after the 64-67 chassis but the pictures I have seen makes me think that there are some areas that will be a problem. I am hoping that there is someone out there that can verify fit on these because they are a fantastic company and make a great product. Made in USA
Hooker
Hooker currently doesn't have headers for the 64-67 A-Body cars and they are not looking to make a set anytime soon. I am passing on trying anything in their repertoire to see if there is something that is a close fit.
Headman
Headman offers up a ton of headers for the A-Body cars. These headers use a slip on collector deal making you use sealer between the collector and the header tubes to seal up the gaps. I am sure this work OK, but it just looks kind of hookie to me. These appear to be built around the BRP mounts and from what I know, these mounts put the engine pretty high in the car compared to the Hooker mounts. I want to keep the engine lower in the car so I am passing on trying anything in their repertoire as well.
Feel free to add when possible.
I have tried a few options and thought I would give you the low down.
First, here is what I am using for setting the engine in the car:
I currently have the Hooker A-body stock location engine adapters, Energy Suspension short and wide mounts and Car Shop BOP to Chevy frame adapters. This puts the engine in the stock location and serves as a starting point for all other discussions. I shied away from the Dirty Dingo mounts because from what I read they only move the engine forward from the stock location and will put the engine up another 1/4" higher. I am trying to keep the engine as low as possible to minimize DL angles. Note that the Hooker stock location mounts are IDENTICAL to the Doug's SK-100 except that the Doug's has an extra set of holes that can position the engine forward 3/4" from stock.
Dougs D-3336R
Based on recommendations from others on the various forums, my first choice was the Dougs D3336R headers. They fit through the frame just fine, they clear the steering column with room to spare and there is plenty of room between the suspension and the headers to minimize heat transfer to the suspension. That being said, the MAJOR drawback is that they are REALLY tight to the floor boards and are very close to the cross member. I probably have 1/4 - 3/8" between the header v-band clamp and the floor pans and 3" from the end of the header and the cross member. This does not leave much room for movement and does not leave much room to snake around the cross member with pipe. In order to make these work, I will have to shorten the header by cutting the v-band adapter pieces loose and relocate them forward near the O2 bungs. This should allow the exhaust to clear the cross member. This is a bit of a project to get them to fit. These would be better if they were about 1-2" lower, but Doug's is not willing to listen to me and the issues that are apparent with these headers. FYI...Made is Mexico.
Kooks 6450-S-0711:
While they say that these will fit the 64-72 A-body, don't waste your time. The only way these will fit in this car is if you would cut out the cross member and the lower control arm pockets. They are a quality header, but no cigar on fitment. Made in USA.
Flowmaster 814116:
These are an EXACT copy of the Doug's except that these use ball and socket clamps instead of the v-band clamps. I honestly think that Doug's makes these for Flowmaster because the tube routing was identical and the welds were in the exact same location as the D3336 headers. Also made in Mexico.
Ultimate Headers Mid Length.
I stumbled across this company in a web search when I was looking for alternatives to the D3336 headers. After talking with Jim Browning (owner) he immediately sent me a set of mock up headers to try. Even though the headers did not fit perfectly, there is some serious potential for these headers. The passenger header needs some tweaking to get it to fit inside the frame rail and the drivers side needs some tweaking to get the 3rd tube away from the steering column. I took a butt load of pictures and sent these to Jim for his consideration. Once Jim has the necessary tweaks incorporated, he will be getting back to me with another set to try. These are exceptional quality and the ball and socket clamp system allows you to get the exhaust right where you want it to minimize the exhaust modifications. Jim is a great guy to deal with and is really interested in making a product that works. Made in USA!
American Racing Headers
These are modeled after the 64-67 chassis but the pictures I have seen makes me think that there are some areas that will be a problem. I am hoping that there is someone out there that can verify fit on these because they are a fantastic company and make a great product. Made in USA
Hooker
Hooker currently doesn't have headers for the 64-67 A-Body cars and they are not looking to make a set anytime soon. I am passing on trying anything in their repertoire to see if there is something that is a close fit.
Headman
Headman offers up a ton of headers for the A-Body cars. These headers use a slip on collector deal making you use sealer between the collector and the header tubes to seal up the gaps. I am sure this work OK, but it just looks kind of hookie to me. These appear to be built around the BRP mounts and from what I know, these mounts put the engine pretty high in the car compared to the Hooker mounts. I want to keep the engine lower in the car so I am passing on trying anything in their repertoire as well.
Feel free to add when possible.
Last edited by old66tiger; 11-01-2014 at 10:09 PM.
11-01-2014, 10:19 PM
#2
I am in the process right now of trying to buy headers for my 65 Chevelle. Surely, there has to be some headers out there that fit just right. Please chime in guys.
I have heard Stainless Works headers are great, but when I went to their website it looked like they only carried headers for 68-72 Chevelles, nothing earlier than that. I sure would like to get something ordered over the weekend, or first thing Monday. Thanks guys
I have heard Stainless Works headers are great, but when I went to their website it looked like they only carried headers for 68-72 Chevelles, nothing earlier than that. I sure would like to get something ordered over the weekend, or first thing Monday. Thanks guys
11-02-2014, 07:32 AM
#3
Hi Mike, You are seeing the same thing that I am seeing. The 68-72 guys get everything they want and the rest of us are stuck sucking it. Even the Nova and late model Monte Carlo guys have more options than us. According the DSE, no one wants to put LS engines in 64-67 A-Bodies and that is why the focus on 1st gen F Body cars. Those are not my words, just the words of a sales person at DSE.
One of my first calls was to stainless works and the response I got was "we can sell you the flanges and j-bends and you can fab them yourself". WOW! I would think that a company like that would be all over the chance to capitalize on an open market.
Mike, i would call ARH and see what they say. I haven't ordered a set from them because I am not sure how receptive they would be to returning them if they did not fit. Maybe they would be OK?
One of my first calls was to stainless works and the response I got was "we can sell you the flanges and j-bends and you can fab them yourself". WOW! I would think that a company like that would be all over the chance to capitalize on an open market.
Mike, i would call ARH and see what they say. I haven't ordered a set from them because I am not sure how receptive they would be to returning them if they did not fit. Maybe they would be OK?
11-02-2014, 08:24 AM
#4
This is my first LS conversion, and it seems like there are alot of people that have already done these conversions. I just dont want to do something here that is reinventing the wheel.
I can try to send out some PMs to see what kind of responses I can get.
I can try to send out some PMs to see what kind of responses I can get.
11-02-2014, 10:52 AM
#5
"According the DSE, no one wants to put LS engines in 64-67 A-Bodies and that is why the focus on 1st gen F Body cars."
I don't think that is true at all. Could be that there are fewer 64-67 A-bodies compared to the 68-72 model years.
All I can say is the Headman headers worked out just fine with my car. Plenty of clearance all the way around. I did use the Dirty Dingo sliders which have a plus and minus of 1 inch so I was able to slide the engine into the perfect position to gain the maximum clearance for the headers.
I believe because of the extra clearance from the Dirty Dingo sliders I had virtually no problem with the stearing. Maybe you should consider buying an uncoated set of headers like I did so you could modify them for your situation. Fortunately I did not need to modify mine but I was prepared to do so.
I don't think that is true at all. Could be that there are fewer 64-67 A-bodies compared to the 68-72 model years.
All I can say is the Headman headers worked out just fine with my car. Plenty of clearance all the way around. I did use the Dirty Dingo sliders which have a plus and minus of 1 inch so I was able to slide the engine into the perfect position to gain the maximum clearance for the headers.
I believe because of the extra clearance from the Dirty Dingo sliders I had virtually no problem with the stearing. Maybe you should consider buying an uncoated set of headers like I did so you could modify them for your situation. Fortunately I did not need to modify mine but I was prepared to do so.
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11-02-2014, 06:28 PM
#8
That is what I thought until I went to the DD website. They claim that the sliders will move the engine forward from the stock location. " Dingo Sliders will allow you to mount the engine in the original bell housing position, or move the engine forward up to 2 1/2 inches. "
I checked my clearance with the hooker mounts and I have about 1.25" from the left bank to the firewall. How much clearance do you have?
Bob
I checked my clearance with the hooker mounts and I have about 1.25" from the left bank to the firewall. How much clearance do you have?
Bob
11-02-2014, 07:47 PM
#9
I would say my clearance is a little less than that to my firewall. My motor mount stands are not exactly in the original spot on my Buick Skylark. I used Chevy tall and narrow stands. So maybe where the motor mount stands are positioned in the car is the difference.
I don't have the car here to measure. It is down at the local shop for a LS3 based 427 short block install.
I don't have the car here to measure. It is down at the local shop for a LS3 based 427 short block install.
11-02-2014, 09:56 PM
#11
After making 4 runs down the track my motor developed a noise. Driving it home rod knock developed and I had to have it towed the rest of the way. So I needed a new short block. Those with a forged assembly were all about the same price so I opted for the 427 version.
11-03-2014, 07:09 AM
#13
Hey Guys. I am deep into an LS conversion in my 66 GTO and I have been playing with headers to see what fits and what doesn't. I am SHOCKED to see that more manufacturers are not wanting to dive into the 64-67 arena.
I have tried a few options and thought I would give you the low down.
First, here is what I am using for setting the engine in the car:
I currently have the Hooker A-body stock location engine adapters, Energy Suspension short and wide mounts and Car Shop BOP to Chevy frame adapters. This puts the engine in the stock location and serves as a starting point for all other discussions. I shied away from the Dirty Dingo mounts because from what I read they only move the engine forward from the stock location and will put the engine up another 1/4" higher. I am trying to keep the engine as low as possible to minimize DL angles. Note that the Hooker stock location mounts are IDENTICAL to the Doug's SK-100 except that the Doug's has an extra set of holes that can position the engine forward 3/4" from stock.
Dougs D-3336R
Based on recommendations from others on the various forums, my first choice was the Dougs D3336R headers. They fit through the frame just fine, they clear the steering column with room to spare and there is plenty of room between the suspension and the headers to minimize heat transfer to the suspension. That being said, the MAJOR drawback is that they are REALLY tight to the floor boards and are very close to the cross member. I probably have 1/4 - 3/8" between the header v-band clamp and the floor pans and 3" from the end of the header and the cross member. This does not leave much room for movement and does not leave much room to snake around the cross member with pipe. In order to make these work, I will have to shorten the header by cutting the v-band adapter pieces loose and relocate them forward near the O2 bungs. This should allow the exhaust to clear the cross member. This is a bit of a project to get them to fit. These would be better if they were about 1-2" lower, but Doug's is not willing to listen to me and the issues that are apparent with these headers. FYI...Made is Mexico.
Kooks 6450-S-0711:
While they say that these will fit the 64-72 A-body, don't waste your time. The only way these will fit in this car is if you would cut out the cross member and the lower control arm pockets. They are a quality header, but no cigar on fitment. Made in USA.
Flowmaster 814116:
These are an EXACT copy of the Doug's except that these use ball and socket clamps instead of the v-band clamps. I honestly think that Doug's makes these for Flowmaster because the tube routing was identical and the welds were in the exact same location as the D3336 headers. Also made in Mexico.
Ultimate Headers Mid Length.
I stumbled across this company in a web search when I was looking for alternatives to the D3336 headers. After talking with Jim Browning (owner) he immediately sent me a set of mock up headers to try. Even though the headers did not fit perfectly, there is some serious potential for these headers. The passenger header needs some tweaking to get it to fit inside the frame rail and the drivers side needs some tweaking to get the 3rd tube away from the steering column. I took a butt load of pictures and sent these to Jim for his consideration. Once Jim has the necessary tweaks incorporated, he will be getting back to me with another set to try. These are exceptional quality and the ball and socket clamp system allows you to get the exhaust right where you want it to minimize the exhaust modifications. Jim is a great guy to deal with and is really interested in making a product that works. Made in USA!
American Racing Headers
These are modeled after the 64-67 chassis but the pictures I have seen makes me think that there are some areas that will be a problem. I am hoping that there is someone out there that can verify fit on these because they are a fantastic company and make a great product. Made in USA
Hooker
Hooker currently doesn't have headers for the 64-67 A-Body cars and they are not looking to make a set anytime soon. I am passing on trying anything in their repertoire to see if there is something that is a close fit.
Headman
Headman offers up a ton of headers for the A-Body cars. These headers use a slip on collector deal making you use sealer between the collector and the header tubes to seal up the gaps. I am sure this work OK, but it just looks kind of hookie to me. These appear to be built around the BRP mounts and from what I know, these mounts put the engine pretty high in the car compared to the Hooker mounts. I want to keep the engine lower in the car so I am passing on trying anything in their repertoire as well.
Feel free to add when possible.
I have tried a few options and thought I would give you the low down.
First, here is what I am using for setting the engine in the car:
I currently have the Hooker A-body stock location engine adapters, Energy Suspension short and wide mounts and Car Shop BOP to Chevy frame adapters. This puts the engine in the stock location and serves as a starting point for all other discussions. I shied away from the Dirty Dingo mounts because from what I read they only move the engine forward from the stock location and will put the engine up another 1/4" higher. I am trying to keep the engine as low as possible to minimize DL angles. Note that the Hooker stock location mounts are IDENTICAL to the Doug's SK-100 except that the Doug's has an extra set of holes that can position the engine forward 3/4" from stock.
Dougs D-3336R
Based on recommendations from others on the various forums, my first choice was the Dougs D3336R headers. They fit through the frame just fine, they clear the steering column with room to spare and there is plenty of room between the suspension and the headers to minimize heat transfer to the suspension. That being said, the MAJOR drawback is that they are REALLY tight to the floor boards and are very close to the cross member. I probably have 1/4 - 3/8" between the header v-band clamp and the floor pans and 3" from the end of the header and the cross member. This does not leave much room for movement and does not leave much room to snake around the cross member with pipe. In order to make these work, I will have to shorten the header by cutting the v-band adapter pieces loose and relocate them forward near the O2 bungs. This should allow the exhaust to clear the cross member. This is a bit of a project to get them to fit. These would be better if they were about 1-2" lower, but Doug's is not willing to listen to me and the issues that are apparent with these headers. FYI...Made is Mexico.
Kooks 6450-S-0711:
While they say that these will fit the 64-72 A-body, don't waste your time. The only way these will fit in this car is if you would cut out the cross member and the lower control arm pockets. They are a quality header, but no cigar on fitment. Made in USA.
Flowmaster 814116:
These are an EXACT copy of the Doug's except that these use ball and socket clamps instead of the v-band clamps. I honestly think that Doug's makes these for Flowmaster because the tube routing was identical and the welds were in the exact same location as the D3336 headers. Also made in Mexico.
Ultimate Headers Mid Length.
I stumbled across this company in a web search when I was looking for alternatives to the D3336 headers. After talking with Jim Browning (owner) he immediately sent me a set of mock up headers to try. Even though the headers did not fit perfectly, there is some serious potential for these headers. The passenger header needs some tweaking to get it to fit inside the frame rail and the drivers side needs some tweaking to get the 3rd tube away from the steering column. I took a butt load of pictures and sent these to Jim for his consideration. Once Jim has the necessary tweaks incorporated, he will be getting back to me with another set to try. These are exceptional quality and the ball and socket clamp system allows you to get the exhaust right where you want it to minimize the exhaust modifications. Jim is a great guy to deal with and is really interested in making a product that works. Made in USA!
American Racing Headers
These are modeled after the 64-67 chassis but the pictures I have seen makes me think that there are some areas that will be a problem. I am hoping that there is someone out there that can verify fit on these because they are a fantastic company and make a great product. Made in USA
Hooker
Hooker currently doesn't have headers for the 64-67 A-Body cars and they are not looking to make a set anytime soon. I am passing on trying anything in their repertoire to see if there is something that is a close fit.
Headman
Headman offers up a ton of headers for the A-Body cars. These headers use a slip on collector deal making you use sealer between the collector and the header tubes to seal up the gaps. I am sure this work OK, but it just looks kind of hookie to me. These appear to be built around the BRP mounts and from what I know, these mounts put the engine pretty high in the car compared to the Hooker mounts. I want to keep the engine lower in the car so I am passing on trying anything in their repertoire as well.
Feel free to add when possible.
What oil pan are you using.........Steering clearance?????
11-04-2014, 12:13 PM
#14
I tried both Holley pans. The 302-2 pan has tons of room between the pan and the steering linkage but was tight between the back side of the crossmember. This pan also requires extensive mods to the windage tray.
The 302-1 pan has tons of room between the pan and the crossmember, ample room between the pan and the steering, the casting is nicer and i can run a full length windage tray. My preference is the 302-1
The 302-1 pan has tons of room between the pan and the crossmember, ample room between the pan and the steering, the casting is nicer and i can run a full length windage tray. My preference is the 302-1
Last edited by old66tiger; 11-04-2014 at 12:38 PM.
11-05-2014, 10:06 PM
#16
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Hey Guys. I am deep into an LS conversion in my 66 GTO and I have been playing with headers to see what fits and what doesn't. I am SHOCKED to see that more manufacturers are not wanting to dive into the 64-67 arena.
Hooker
Hooker currently doesn't have headers for the 64-67 A-Body cars and they are not looking to make a set anytime soon. I am passing on trying anything in their repertoire to see if there is something that is a close fit.
Hooker
Hooker currently doesn't have headers for the 64-67 A-Body cars and they are not looking to make a set anytime soon. I am passing on trying anything in their repertoire to see if there is something that is a close fit.
My headers fit awesome but are pretty tight to the floor. They had to angle the exhaust a bit to clear the crossmember but it wasn't bad.
11-24-2014, 03:05 PM
#17
Old66tiger,
Regarding the Ultimate headers, I see on their website they off a "version 2" of the LS swap headers. Do you know if these incorporate the changes you suggested? I'm seriously considering a set of headers for my '67, but my options are even more limited because I want 1 7/8" primaries.
I know I'll sacrifice performance with a mid-length vs. long-tube, but I want something better than my stock LS1 manifolds......and of course, I'd like them to fit properly. The Ultimate's seem like a decent compromise. The only HUGE disadvantage with the Ultimate's is the price. WOW!, those things are spendy.
Oh, and thanks for your writeup on this. It's a much needed topic of discussion for us early A-body guys. Our options are very limited with headers, as you've clearly pointed out. Thanks again!
-Jeff
Regarding the Ultimate headers, I see on their website they off a "version 2" of the LS swap headers. Do you know if these incorporate the changes you suggested? I'm seriously considering a set of headers for my '67, but my options are even more limited because I want 1 7/8" primaries.
I know I'll sacrifice performance with a mid-length vs. long-tube, but I want something better than my stock LS1 manifolds......and of course, I'd like them to fit properly. The Ultimate's seem like a decent compromise. The only HUGE disadvantage with the Ultimate's is the price. WOW!, those things are spendy.
Oh, and thanks for your writeup on this. It's a much needed topic of discussion for us early A-body guys. Our options are very limited with headers, as you've clearly pointed out. Thanks again!
-Jeff
