Road racer fox mustang ls3?
11-16-2014, 01:17 AM
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Road racer fox mustang ls3? I tried asking about this in another forum and everybody got mired in stupidity like cruise control, working a/c, keeping factory (fox mustang) gauges and dash. This is a (road course) track car. It will not have or need any of this stuff.
I was thinking of getting a complete stock ls3 kit like the e-rod ls3 with drive by wire throttle and has pedal. The 430hp power is fine. I'm not a dragger or hot rodder. Road course driving is murder on engines so stock reliability is important.
A few questions. ..
1) is there any reason I can't use a GM power steering pump with custom hoses and a regulator to get the right pressure for my ford hydraulic rack?
2) is there any reason I can't use the vacuum brake booster I have on there now? I already have a big sbf motor (351 stroked to 408) with a road race tubular k-member that mounts the motor all the way back against the firewall and there is still plenty of room for the brake booster. Yet I keep hearing I can't use it with an lsx?
3) the stock ls3 shorty headers look both short and tightly fit to the side of the motor. It _looks_ like I could use those and get an exhaust shop to fit some pipes between the headers and my mufflers? Any reason why this won't work? Long tubes are out of the question. I know they're better but I do my own work under the car and I'm willing to sacrifice some performance for more space and easier working.
4) for gauges I was just planning on using plain boring autometer ultralights like every other race car for the last 15 years: oil temp and pressure, coolant temp, tach, maybe a speedo and a fuel level if I get to it. I know there's room.
-peter
I was thinking of getting a complete stock ls3 kit like the e-rod ls3 with drive by wire throttle and has pedal. The 430hp power is fine. I'm not a dragger or hot rodder. Road course driving is murder on engines so stock reliability is important.
A few questions. ..
1) is there any reason I can't use a GM power steering pump with custom hoses and a regulator to get the right pressure for my ford hydraulic rack?
2) is there any reason I can't use the vacuum brake booster I have on there now? I already have a big sbf motor (351 stroked to 408) with a road race tubular k-member that mounts the motor all the way back against the firewall and there is still plenty of room for the brake booster. Yet I keep hearing I can't use it with an lsx?
3) the stock ls3 shorty headers look both short and tightly fit to the side of the motor. It _looks_ like I could use those and get an exhaust shop to fit some pipes between the headers and my mufflers? Any reason why this won't work? Long tubes are out of the question. I know they're better but I do my own work under the car and I'm willing to sacrifice some performance for more space and easier working.
4) for gauges I was just planning on using plain boring autometer ultralights like every other race car for the last 15 years: oil temp and pressure, coolant temp, tach, maybe a speedo and a fuel level if I get to it. I know there's room.
-peter
11-16-2014, 08:05 AM
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Hey Peter,
#1 yes you can use the GM power steering pump, you need this http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Mustan...-GPM,5852.html
and the fitting to the Ford hose,
#2 The factory booster will be fine, if anything, you may have to relocate a coil.
#3 sorry on this one, I used longtubes made for the swap.
Check my photobucket, I have photos of the engine in the car. I used a 1996 GT booster, 3 of the 4 holes line up, one just needs to be elongated. I had 2001 brakes on my car.
#1 yes you can use the GM power steering pump, you need this http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Mustan...-GPM,5852.html
and the fitting to the Ford hose,
#2 The factory booster will be fine, if anything, you may have to relocate a coil.
#3 sorry on this one, I used longtubes made for the swap.
Check my photobucket, I have photos of the engine in the car. I used a 1996 GT booster, 3 of the 4 holes line up, one just needs to be elongated. I had 2001 brakes on my car.
11-16-2014, 12:16 PM
#3
Peter,
Not to veer off topic, but be sure to address the oiling problems facing the LS3 for roadrace applications. Search these and the roadrace forums for more discussion on the subject.
Andy1
Not to veer off topic, but be sure to address the oiling problems facing the LS3 for roadrace applications. Search these and the roadrace forums for more discussion on the subject.
Andy1
11-16-2014, 03:06 PM
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Hi Peter,
You know me as andrewb on c-c.com.
If you want tight fitting manifolds, the Hooker cast manifolds will work well for you, as they tuck up nice and tight and use the same flanges as the e-rod.
Andrew
You know me as andrewb on c-c.com.
If you want tight fitting manifolds, the Hooker cast manifolds will work well for you, as they tuck up nice and tight and use the same flanges as the e-rod.
Andrew
11-16-2014, 07:37 PM
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Hi Andrew what's up, mate?
Thanks guys. All that so far is a tremendous help. Seriously. It has rejuvenated my hope of actually pulling this off. If I get an e-rod kit I suppose I can always try the manifolds that come with it anyway?
As for the brake booster, it's already on the car and has been working great for years with brembos in front and corvette pbr vented 12"ers in the rear. The booster and master cylinder are exactly right for my brakes and have been performing well at the track for years.
So now on to the fan. Is there a clutch fan I can use or is that too much of a bastard for a modern V8 like this? I'm happy to go with electric fans and ford makes a kickass one that came in IIRC the Lincoln mk8 and the Taurus sho. Will the ls3 pcm control a Ford fan?
Just in case...
the car is currently registered but smog exempt as long as I drive less than 5000 miles per year. Which has been no problem. I only drove it 1200 in the last year for example. BUT if I go with the the e-rod kit because of it's convenience, I might as well try to take advantage of the 50 state legalityou just in case. Plus I'd like the freedom to take it back to our CA home one day maybe (it's in Nevada now). Sooo... is there any chance in hell of getting those smog-legal, e-rod cats to fit?
That's all for now. I'm sure I'll have more questions.
-Peter
Thanks guys. All that so far is a tremendous help. Seriously. It has rejuvenated my hope of actually pulling this off. If I get an e-rod kit I suppose I can always try the manifolds that come with it anyway?
As for the brake booster, it's already on the car and has been working great for years with brembos in front and corvette pbr vented 12"ers in the rear. The booster and master cylinder are exactly right for my brakes and have been performing well at the track for years.
So now on to the fan. Is there a clutch fan I can use or is that too much of a bastard for a modern V8 like this? I'm happy to go with electric fans and ford makes a kickass one that came in IIRC the Lincoln mk8 and the Taurus sho. Will the ls3 pcm control a Ford fan?
Just in case...
the car is currently registered but smog exempt as long as I drive less than 5000 miles per year. Which has been no problem. I only drove it 1200 in the last year for example. BUT if I go with the the e-rod kit because of it's convenience, I might as well try to take advantage of the 50 state legalityou just in case. Plus I'd like the freedom to take it back to our CA home one day maybe (it's in Nevada now). Sooo... is there any chance in hell of getting those smog-legal, e-rod cats to fit?
That's all for now. I'm sure I'll have more questions.
-Peter
11-16-2014, 08:27 PM
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not off topic at all, all things considered. i was not aware of this problem, figuring the ls3 is the "corvette motor" and all. BUT, i've always had an eye on the dry sump system from the ls7. any reason for it not to be a bolt-on for an ls3? good tech info on the ls7 dry sump is hard to find, imho. guessing not so many ls1 swappers are into road racing as drag racing and resto-mod street driving, where the dry sump is less important, so why bother?
where in socal are you? i'm in santa barbara, but from carlsbad, where i manage my parent's old house as a rental. so i cover a good range of north-to-south in socal.
-peter
Last edited by pcrussell50@cox.net; 11-16-2014 at 08:40 PM.
11-16-2014, 08:56 PM
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Peter,
I see no reason that you can't use the e-rod and make it legal in CA, after all, that is the point of that engine package. As far as I understand it, you have to use all of the components that come with it. When I was playing around with RX7s several guys had successfully installed LS engines in them and navigated the CA nanny state gauntlet for smog exemption. But as always, do some more research on that.
Some of the early LS engines have had oiling problems, but I really haven't heard much with respect to the LS3s. An oil accumulator system might be cheap insurance.
As for installing the LS7 dry-sump system, that will require swapping the crank to the Grand Sport LS3 crank or the LS9 crank. The OEM dry sump system is driven off the crank and a longer oil pump is used. In other words, this is not a trivial addition to an otherwise stock LS3.
If you want to be a little more hard core about it, there are numerous dry sump systems on the market that you can spend as much as you want to spend on...LOL
http://www.daileyengineering.com/ls_engines.htm
Andrew
I see no reason that you can't use the e-rod and make it legal in CA, after all, that is the point of that engine package. As far as I understand it, you have to use all of the components that come with it. When I was playing around with RX7s several guys had successfully installed LS engines in them and navigated the CA nanny state gauntlet for smog exemption. But as always, do some more research on that.
Some of the early LS engines have had oiling problems, but I really haven't heard much with respect to the LS3s. An oil accumulator system might be cheap insurance.
As for installing the LS7 dry-sump system, that will require swapping the crank to the Grand Sport LS3 crank or the LS9 crank. The OEM dry sump system is driven off the crank and a longer oil pump is used. In other words, this is not a trivial addition to an otherwise stock LS3.
If you want to be a little more hard core about it, there are numerous dry sump systems on the market that you can spend as much as you want to spend on...LOL
http://www.daileyengineering.com/ls_engines.htm
Andrew
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11-16-2014, 09:06 PM
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Got it Andrew. Great info. No LS7 dry sump for now. And I'm pretty well versed on race dry sumps. Not interested in a race dry sump system.
Are you in Vegas? I'm on my way to my Boulder City house as we speak... Boarding a flight to LAS from LAX.
-Peter
Are you in Vegas? I'm on my way to my Boulder City house as we speak... Boarding a flight to LAS from LAX.
-Peter
11-17-2014, 01:24 PM
#13
andy...
not off topic at all, all things considered. i was not aware of this problem, figuring the ls3 is the "corvette motor" and all. BUT, i've always had an eye on the dry sump system from the ls7. any reason for it not to be a bolt-on for an ls3? good tech info on the ls7 dry sump is hard to find, imho. guessing not so many ls1 swappers are into road racing as drag racing and resto-mod street driving, where the dry sump is less important, so why bother?
where in socal are you? i'm in santa barbara, but from carlsbad, where i manage my parent's old house as a rental. so i cover a good range of north-to-south in socal.
-peter
not off topic at all, all things considered. i was not aware of this problem, figuring the ls3 is the "corvette motor" and all. BUT, i've always had an eye on the dry sump system from the ls7. any reason for it not to be a bolt-on for an ls3? good tech info on the ls7 dry sump is hard to find, imho. guessing not so many ls1 swappers are into road racing as drag racing and resto-mod street driving, where the dry sump is less important, so why bother?
where in socal are you? i'm in santa barbara, but from carlsbad, where i manage my parent's old house as a rental. so i cover a good range of north-to-south in socal.
-peter
As I suggested, search through the roadracing forum at LS1Tech, and you'll find a lot of discussions regarding oiling and roadracing. Probably the best resource would be the Corvette forums; there's plenty of information to gleen there. I don't want to place undue fear, but many a non LS7/GranSport Corvette has lost a motor due to oiling problems in long left hand corners within a few minutes on the track. I took my LS1/914 Porsche to The Streets of Willow for a HPDE to do some chassis tuning; as recommended I added one extra quart of oil and felt relatively safe as the event was run in the clockwise direction (Predominately quick right hand corners).....but I always kept one eye on the oil pressure gauge.
I'm in Santa Clarita; send me a PM.
Andy1