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PLEASE BARE WITH ME.
I am unable to respond to replies because I am a new member with less than 50 posts.
I am sure there are 100+ threads about this but I am new to the LSx scene.
I have been cleaning up a 1969 Datsun 1600 Roadster in preparation of doing a motor swap. The original idea was to do a Hayabusa swap but was swayed into doing an LSx swap. A few days ago I found a wrecked 2002 Camaro SS with 89,xxx miles on its LS1 & T56 that I ended up purchasing. One owner, well maintained, original purchase slips, and clean title. The LS1 runs smooth as butter.
I thought I would sign up to this forum to get some information on the swap. Any tips or advice would be much appreciated.
Also, I will have some parts from the F-body soon.
- Kolt
Originally Posted by pdxmotorhead
One of my fav cars, always wanted one with a SR20DET red top in it... Keep us updated curious to see how it fits..
I was originally looking for a Fiat 124 or 2000 when I came across the Roadsters. The SR20 is actually a common swap in these cars. I will definitely try to keep posted when I can but, as I mentioned before, this is going to be a very slow build.
One guy did a LS1 a few years ago so he does have some valuable info as well:
Originally Posted by Michael Yount
Cobla.....
What is "Cobla"?
Originally Posted by B Gordon
Interesting swap choice.
Looks like you have your work cut out for yourself.
Does the SS currently have a T56 in it or is the Camaro currently an automatic?
What rear end will you be going with?
Not sure how much direct help it would be but you might look into the LS1 swaps that get put into Miata's as there could possibly be some similar things that would work on your swap.
I would love to see you go with an IRS as part of your swap. Who knows, the Miata rear subframe might even get you there. My LS1 swap into a Miata used the differential from a Cadillac CTS-V and was super easy with custom axles.
After doing a LS1 swap into my Miata, I have HUGE amounts of respect for somebody doing an LS1 swap that requires a bunch of custom fabrication to work. At least I was able to give my credit card number and get various "kits" that do the hard work of a swap. All I had to do was install a bunch of parts and follow 30 pages of detailed instructions.
The SS does have a T56. I am still unsure of which rear end to use. I had been planning on getting an R33 IRS rear for the Hayabusa but I do not know its compatibility with the LS1.
I agree, although not direct, I could see information on a Miata swap being valuable information. Is a stock Miata subframe capable of handling the 350+hp of the LS1. I am sure that there will be parts of the swap that I will need to bring into a shop. I know nothing about automotive computers.
Last edited by InTheRough; 11-11-2017 at 01:33 AM.
One of my fav cars, always wanted one with a SR20DET red top in it... Keep us updated curious to see how it fits..
I was origintally looking for a Fiat 124 or 2000 when I came across this and I fell in love the the look of it. The SR20 is a common modification for these cars. They even have some modification kits to make it easy. It will be slow goings but I will try to keep the thread updated.
Originally Posted by Michael Yount
Cobla.....
Cobla?
For those that may question the compatibility, it will take a lot of modification but it has been done:
Interesting swap choice.
Looks like you have your work cut out for yourself.
Does the SS currently have a T56 in it or is the Camaro currently an automatic?
What rear end will you be going with?
Not sure how much direct help it would be but you might look into the LS1 swaps that get put into Miata's as there could possibly be some similar things that would work on your swap.
I would love to see you go with an IRS as part of your swap. Who knows, the Miata rear subframe might even get you there. My LS1 swap into a Miata used the differential from a Cadillac CTS-V and was super easy with custom axles.
After doing a LS1 swap into my Miata, I have HUGE amounts of respect for somebody doing an LS1 swap that requires a bunch of custom fabrication to work. At least I was able to give my credit card number and get various "kits" that do the hard work of a swap. All I had to do was install a bunch of parts and follow 30 pages of detailed instructions.
One of my fav cars, always wanted one with a SR20DET red top in it... Keep us updated curious to see how it fits..
I was originally looking for a Fiat 124 or 2000 when I came across the Roadsters. The SR20 is actually a common swap in these cars. I will definitely try to keep posted when I can but, as I mentioned before, this is going to be a very slow build.
One guy did a LS1 a few years ago so he does have some valuable info as well:
Originally Posted by Michael Yount
Cobla.....
What is "Cobla"?
Originally Posted by B Gordon
Interesting swap choice.
Looks like you have your work cut out for yourself.
Does the SS currently have a T56 in it or is the Camaro currently an automatic?
What rear end will you be going with?
Not sure how much direct help it would be but you might look into the LS1 swaps that get put into Miata's as there could possibly be some similar things that would work on your swap.
I would love to see you go with an IRS as part of your swap. Who knows, the Miata rear subframe might even get you there. My LS1 swap into a Miata used the differential from a Cadillac CTS-V and was super easy with custom axles.
After doing a LS1 swap into my Miata, I have HUGE amounts of respect for somebody doing an LS1 swap that requires a bunch of custom fabrication to work. At least I was able to give my credit card number and get various "kits" that do the hard work of a swap. All I had to do was install a bunch of parts and follow 30 pages of detailed instructions.
The SS does have a T56. I am still unsure of which rear end to use. I had been planning on getting an R33 IRS rear for the Hayabusa but I do not know its compatibility with the LS1.
I agree, although not direct, I could see information on a Miata swap being valuable information. Is a stock Miata subframe capable of handling the 350+hp of the LS1. I am sure that there will be parts of the swap that I will need to bring into a shop. I know nothing about automotive computers.
Native Japanese speakers have trouble with R's and L's in English (Engrish) -- my wife and mother-in-law are Japanese-American.
British Roadster + American V8 power = Cobra
Lotus Super 7 + Japanese Rotary power = Rotus
Japanese Roadster + American V8 power = Cobla
As for Miata helping -- the contemporary unibody of a Miata is MUCH stouter than whatever you have in the Datsun roadster. I would be looking at SERIOUS efforts to strengthen the Datsun. It will need it to handle the torque of the V8 --- as well as making steering, suspension and braking all work more effectively.
Analogy - the replica Cobras are much better "cars" than the originals in terms of saftey, drivability, handling, etc. Of course, value is no comparison. But the new frames/bodies/accessories/support systems are much better than the originals. A lot of the old roadsters can't pass the 'curb test' -- but one front wheel up on a curb and try to open the door. Many twist so easily that the body binds the door closed. Imagine an engine with 5-7x the torque that the 1600 had in that 50 year-old design. Pretzel logic.
Last edited by Michael Yount; 11-13-2017 at 07:04 PM.
Rough,
Nothing of the original drivetrain from a Miata works with a V8 swap. The rear independent differential I used came from a supercharged Cadillac CTS-V
Some Miata swappers use the Ford 8.8 independent differential that comes in a number of different Fords.
Based on the picture in your post, it appears that the front suspension components sit a bunch further forward than with a Miata swap. With the location of the front steering I cannot see where you can get real estate to put the cooling system but maybe things are better than the picture indicates.
Have you considered switching directions and installing a Honda V6 engine from the Accord? Visually it looks like it could potentially be a much easier swap that would give you 250 HP and would probably be a better fit.
Several Miata swaps have been done with Honda engines and BMW 5 speed or 6 speed transmissions and the factory Miata rear end assembly.
Native Japanese speakers have trouble with R's and L's in English (Engrish) -- my wife and mother-in-law are Japanese-American.
British Roadster + American V8 power = Cobra
Lotus Super 7 + Japanese Rotary power = Rotus
Japanese Roadster + American V8 power = Cobla
As for Miata helping -- the contemporary unibody of a Miata is MUCH stouter than whatever you have in the Datsun roadster. I would be looking at SERIOUS efforts to strengthen the Datsun. It will need it to handle the torque of the V8 --- as well as making steering, suspension and braking all work more effectively.
Analogy - the replica Cobras are much better "cars" than the originals in terms of saftey, drivability, handling, etc. Of course, value is no comparison. But the new frames/bodies/accessories/support systems are much better than the originals. A lot of the old roadsters can't pass the 'curb test' -- but one front wheel up on a curb and try to open the door. Many twist so easily that the body binds the door closed. Imagine an engine with 5-7x the torque that the 1600 had in that 50 year-old design. Pretzel logic.
Aha! That went right over my head but, yes, it was funny.
I will definitely be fabricating plenty of additional supports in addition to modifying the existing frame. Not to say that I want to throw away money but, if having a race frame made fixes most of my issues, I would not ignore that option (relative to cost).
For reference the 1600 had 96 hp and 103 ft/lbs of torque
Originally Posted by B Gordon
Rough,
Nothing of the original drivetrain from a Miata works with a V8 swap. The rear independent differential I used came from a supercharged Cadillac CTS-V
Some Miata swappers use the Ford 8.8 independent differential that comes in a number of different Fords.
Based on the picture in your post, it appears that the front suspension components sit a bunch further forward than with a Miata swap. With the location of the front steering I cannot see where you can get real estate to put the cooling system but maybe things are better than the picture indicates.
Have you considered switching directions and installing a Honda V6 engine from the Accord? Visually it looks like it could potentially be a much easier swap that would give you 250 HP and would probably be a better fit.
Several Miata swaps have been done with Honda engines and BMW 5 speed or 6 speed transmissions and the factory Miata rear end assembly.
The rear end that I was considering using, keeping within the Nissan/Datsun family, was an Skyline R33 IRS. I am sure there will need to be modifications and even customization but I anticipated that prior to starting the project.
For the Datsun, my interests were a Hayabusa or Ninja 1400 motor or a V8. I just so happen to come across The smooth running wrecked F-body Camaro for a reasonable deal. If the LS1 doesnt fit in the Datsun I may end up building from a different chassis. The Datsun was only $600 and I have LOTS of extra parts. Not to say that I haven't been a fan of Honda's - and not to sound blunt or rude - but I definitely wouldn't be interested in spending the time or the money to build a glorified Honda.
No offense taken, that is for sure.
I was just thinking out loud on a swap that is shorter than an LS but gives similar HP/cubic inch and has a good reputation for reliability.
It might seem a bit odd but it seems like Miata people are willing to think out of the box when it comes to swaps.
One that is getting a lot of buzz is taking a 3.5 V6 from a Honda van and mating the 6 speed transmission from a 3 series BMW. That particular combination is lighter than the cast iron Miata engine & transmission and can put down 250 reliable HP to the rear wheel and is real cheap to source parts. A couple of people claimed they are into the whole swap for less than $2000
I would think a cycle engine would at least be narrow enough to fit the engine bay with lots of room on both sides. Sure you don’t want to part out the Firebird and get a wrecked Busa? That would be a 1 of 1 and would sound like something really exotic.
For reference the 1600 had 96 hp and 103 ft/lbs of torque
My then-girlfriend/now-wife's first car in high school was a 1967 RL411 "SSS" sedan. Same engine as in the roadster. VERY familiar with it (head gasket change, tune ups, carb rebuilds/adjustments, valve adjustments, etc.). We sold that car to buy a new 1978 Rabbit a decade later when we were in college. It's the one car we regret selling. Those ratings were SAE gross ratings -- at that time probably as much a function of the marketing department as the engineering department. They'd be doing good to put 70-80 lb-ft to the tires. Hence my 5-7x multiplier. By the way -- lb-ft for torque output (engine's torque output); ft-lbs for energy input (how much "work" to put on a head bolt to tighten it properly). For nerds like me wanting more detail -- https://www.web2carz.com/autos/car-t...and-pound-feet
If fit turns out to be too much to overcome - another thought. Got a buddy who pulled the 1275cc BL motor out of his MG Midget and replaced it with a 2.3L Duratec (DOHC 4 banger) out of a Focus. T5 tranny and a Dana30/Volvo 1031 narrowed rear end with limited slip. I can tell you - 150HP in a 1700 lb. package is pretty danged entertaining. Of course, - 350HP would be pretty danged entertaining too. Good luck with the swap!
Last edited by Michael Yount; 11-16-2017 at 09:58 PM.
I also bought a '69 Datsun 1600 coincidentally about 4 months ago that had been in storage for 19 years for $600 with hardtop!..... and a week later a running 2008 Suzuki B-King (1340cc Hayabusa engine Gen2). After a bunch of research I'm not sure the Hayabusa transmission will last having to push around 2000lbs+ compared to its original 550lbs. They make a splined adapter to mate up a driveshaft to the motor and then you can run any diff you want.
I'm debating about doing a 5.3 turbo and 8.8" solid rear out back. It would be a fun street car and even if it was 2400lbs in the end making 600-800rwhp it would scoot.
But I'd think the little roadster would be pretty danged nice with one of the current crop of 150-185HP 2.0L-2.5L 4 bangers out there that are powering just about everything these days. If the LS turns out to be required (nothing wrong with that) I'd want to go aluminum block.
But I'd think the little roadster would be pretty danged nice with one of the current crop of 150-185HP 2.0L-2.5L 4 bangers out there that are powering just about everything these days. If the LS turns out to be required (nothing wrong with that) I'd want to go aluminum block.
The LS engine the OP currently has is aluminum block. The aluminum blocked engine assembly is just a few pounds heavier than most cast iron 4 cylinder engines, which is one of the reasons it is so popular.
On the original subject, I sure agree with you about installing a newer lightweight 4 cylinder.
Not sure if it matters or not to the OP but an outfit makes an adaptor to allow the use of BMW 3 series manual transmissions with the 4 cylinder (and also most 6 cylinder) Honda engines. It has gotten over the hurdle of what transmission will work when using the front wheel drive engines in a rear wheel drive application.
\The aluminum blocked engine assembly is just a few pounds heavier than most cast iron 4 cylinder engines, which is one of the reasons it is so popular.
Not sure where this myth originated, but would love to see some actual scaled weights. I weighed the aluminum head, cast iron block 5.0L Ford motor coming out of mine and the new crate LS3 going in. Both were similarly equipped -- harmonic balancer, no accessories except water pump, intake, exhaust manifolds (cast iron on LS3, tubular shorties on Ford), no flex plate or flywheel, all ignition and fuel set ups in place.
Ford V8 - 411 lbs. LS3 - 393 lbs. Have a hard time believing that a cast iron 4 cylinder weighs more than the cast iron block Ford V8. But, once a rumor starts -- away it goes. The vast majority of 4 cylinders, even with iron blocks, had aluminum heads starting quite some time ago -- as I recall, my 1600 Datsun sedan (same motor in roadster) had an aluminum head. Suspect even with the aluminum block LS, the OP will be up at least 100 lbs. in the front. And almost always, the bell, flywheel, clutch/PP and contemporary tranny will be quite a bit heavier than the 4 cylinder stuff it's replacing, even if the old 4 speed tranny had a cast iron case. Hell - a T56 weighs a good 50-60 lbs. more than a T5!
I weighed the 4 cylinder motor that came out of my Miata when I did my swap.
Remember it well because I paid by the pound.
380 pounds with flywheel & clutch installed and the driveshaft wired. Only thing that added weight was the pallet it was banded to. The Miata engine did have heavy cast iron head and a log of a cast iron exhaust manifold.
Agree with you on the transmission weight. The T56 is just plain heavy. Also, the V8 flywheel and clutch is quite a bit heavier than something from a 4 cylinder unless you spend some money.
The Miata 6 speed weighed 87 pounds on our shop scale and the T56 weighed right around 135 minus the bell housing.
You are correct about the additional weight up front. I was just making a wild guess based on the weight difference between my Miata before and after my swap.
The good news about the transmission being heavier is that the weight is down low and centered between the front and rear so it should be close to neutral on the weight distribution.
That's about right -- the LS3 was 495lbs. shipped without flywheel or clutch (which aren't light) - pallet/straps heavier than one might think. 4 banger with aluminum head about 100 lbs. lighter than an alum LS or a thin-wall cast iron V8 with alum heads/intake/tube headers. Your palleted weight with flywheel/clutch goes a long way to confirming it.
Last edited by Michael Yount; 11-22-2017 at 03:37 PM.
11-09-2017, 10:52 PM
5.7L & T56 going into Datsun Roadster 
