Cheese Weasel

I spent a good chunk of last night practicing double flares on a section of the NiCopp line that I have. I've gotten a lot better at creating the flares, enough so that I've gotten close enough to where I'm wondering if the flares I've made are "good enough to use". (I suspect that the fact that I'm phrasing it that way might itself be the answer to the question...)

The flares look pretty good, they align pretty well with the threaded fitting "behind" the flare, but so far they've always been about 10* or 15* "tilted" to one side. The temptation is to say that they're good enough, & just to make sure that I tighten the fitting good & snug - but I'm wanting to run this vehicle on the road course a few times/year, as well as the occasional "airport runway challenge" or open-road event, & 'moving at a buck-thirty approaching Turn 1' is perhaps NOT the ideal setting for discovering brake system flaws...

The biggest question that I have is "Is there any way for me to tell if the 'tilted flares' are caused by a technique error, or are just a result of the toolset that I'm using?" The flaring toolset that I have is one that I've inherited, it's one of the low-dollar type that you can find at HF or similar stores. The beveling/forming surfaces look OK with the naked eye, & I've tried to ensure that I'm applying pressure as near to parallel to the tubing as I'm able to...

It's probably also worth noting that I watched several videos last night that suggested ways of flaring brake lines, & I am prepping the ends of the tube as well as I can & using a bit of oil on the flaring die surfaces in an effort to make the process work more smoothly...

I have a good tool store (meaning one that's used by guys who live/die by their tools everyday) just a few miles away, but I'm hesitant to spend $50 or more on a different flaring set that I'll probably only use a few times in my life. (But then again, sheetmetal & medical care aren't exactly inexpensive either...)

Would like to get some others' feedback on this - any hints/tips/suggestions?

EDIT: Actually, this topic can be disregarded - the more I think about it, the more I feel that the cost of buying a decent-quality tool is pretty minimal compared to the potential costs of a less-than-optimal braking system. I'm off to the "good tool store"...

garys 68

iTrader: (1)

Get a good flaring tool. No reason they shouldn't be perfect.

Cheese Weasel

Thanks Gary, that's what I'm thinking - this is one of those cases where it's stupid to be "penny wise & pound foolish"...

G Atsma

Yeah, especially when brakes are involved! NO place to cheap out.....
"....yeah, I think my brakes are TOO good...", said NO ONE EVER...

kwhizz

x 1,000,000,000,000,000,000

Cheese Weasel

Yeah, that's a really good point - and to underscore the point, the first test crimp I did with the new kit was one that I looked at as it was up against the fitting & immediately knew that I'd trust it, no questions asked. (Kinda surprised me a little, actually.)

If anyone's interested, the new flaring tool kit that I got is the Lisle 31310 - just note that it's NOT intended for use with steel lines (but WHY would you want to use steel lines any more??!?). Looks almost identical to the first one I used, but the results are night & day different.

(And no, I'm not blaming the substandard results of my previous attempts completely on the tool...)

33willys

iTrader: (1)

Back in the '60s I got a flaring kit and it out flares anything on the market today. When double flaring it's critical to get the brake line exactly the right height above the flaring clamp. The double flare insert has a shoulder to measure the amount of tubing to extend above the clamp. Cutting the tubing square and ensuring the double flare insert will fit into the tube is also important. I use a rat tail file to get the slight bend out of the tube where the cutoff tool bend it in slightly. Wash the tube out after any filing. If all goes well the double flare will be just fine but if it is cocked it usually means there was too much tubing extended from the clamp to begin with. Inspect the flare with a loupe looking for cracks. The new copper/nickel/steel is a dream to bend and flair. Last...you did put the nut on before flaring didn't you...?

Michael Yount

iTrader: (1)

Brakes + Road Course = Good Enough Is Not Good Enough

jeffs55chevy

i bought a flaring tool from napa part # 165c. its an inline flaring tool so you dont have to worry about it getting crooked like a lot of the horseshoe style flarers. it was about $75. ive done about 150 flares with mine and its been great so far. mastercool makes a really nice hydraulic setup that i believe does double bead fuel lines too, but that is about $300.

Pop N Wood

iTrader: (1)

A good flaring tool just makes it easier to do a lot of lines. If you don't do it right the joint will leak immediately. Can't say I've ever know anyone who wrecked his car because a flare suddenly and catastrophically failed after months or even decades of use. I guess it is possible to mangle the line and weaken it, but a visual check will tell you that. Worst case you get a leak which regular maintenance should catch.

I will say that copper nickel line is the easiest stuff to flare there is. Where a good flaring tool will pay for itself is if you try doing something like stainless hardline. Trick with that is to cut it with a hacksaw and not a tubing cutter. The cutter work hardens the steel making it difficult to flare.

By the way $50 is still toward the low end of what flaring tools cost.

JIMB

iTrader: (2)

I used one of the cheap flaring tools for years and the double flares it made were kind of hit and miss. I finally bought the Eastwood flaring tool. I think it was about $200. It makes perfect flares every time. Comes with bubble flare tooling also.

After you cut the line and before flaring deburr the inside of the line. I use a #3 center drill. Also a slight chamfer on the outside of the line is helpful. A little bit of lube on the flaring tool die doesn't hurt either.

-TheBandit-

iTrader: (1)

Highly recommend the Eastwood pro flaring tool. Very much worth the money. Excellent clamp system. 3 op system make sure the tube is at the right depth in the die and forms the flare perfectly every time. The forming dies are piloted inside the tube so the ID doesn't distort and everything stays centered and straight. It's easy to operate. Best money I spent in the brake system by far.

cpd004

iTrader: (13)

I have this tool. It is excellent. It gives professional quality flares. They only way you'd get a bad flare from this thing is if you don't follow the directions. When I first looked into getting a good quality flaring tool, the price seemed a little high, but they have coupons/sales once in a while which made it more appealing.


They have a good reamer/deburring tool as well that should be used regardless of what flaring tool you end up with.

https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-tu...SABEgI7R_D_BwE

-TheBandit-

iTrader: (1)

Yes you definitely need to debur inside and outside before flaring. I really like the looks of the Eastwood deburring tool. I have been using a larger plastic bodied "inside outside reamer" similar to this one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Monsoon-Har...YAAOSwNOJapPzb I originally bought it to do 3/8" hydraulic hardlines but it works OK on the small 3/16" brake line tubing too. If I was doing it over, I would get the Eastwood one.

ROFL Thanks for that one!

HioSSilver

iTrader: (8)

I convert all flares to AN when i can. Makes it much easier and fittings galore to adapt to anything or shape.

WFO_SS

iTrader: (2)

if your flares are tilted, it's usually due to the line not being perfectly straight & even cut. the clamp not holding good enough is the biggest difference between the cheap flaring tools & the good, more expensive ones. i threw away a cheap one years ago after 1 use & trying to flare a brake line 4-5 times due to it not clamping. i have not used the inline hydraulic one (mastercool) yet, but that is going to be my next tool purchase for work.

cpd004

iTrader: (13)

People often skip the deburring and reaming step which can make it difficult for the tool to properly flare the tube. A lubricant helps as well after deburring. Brake fluid or anti-seize works well. I typically wipe off the anti-seize after. The brake fluid is corrosive if it comes into contact with certain tools.

toplessHO

iTrader: (25)

For many years I struggled with the bench vise type flaring tools.
Even the snapon. I think I have at least 5 different brands of them
I was reproducing a lot of OEM steel fuel lines long before inline tube etc did them so I stepped up to a mastercool hydraulic and never looked back.
A few tips I ll give on getting great flares,as others have said deburr.. I use a long skinny unibit to carefully ream the inside of the tubing and assuring the ends are square. I still use a tubing cutter but don't get in a hurry as mentioned it will work harden material. After the end is properly deburred I lightly touch it with the bench grinder wire wheel to "buff" the sharp edges.This is probably the most important step.
Oil on the mandrel and the tubing will also make a nice clean flare. Height is critical on a double flare as also mentioned.Good luck and happy flaring. Practice on a few scraps first,never hurts to practice and prefect techniques

AAIIIC

iTrader: (19)

I was going to offer the same advice. Making a single 37* flare is painfully simple. If I need to connect a line to a prop valve or master cylinder or whatever (using a bubble flare or double flare), then I just buy the pre-flared line with the correct size tube nut already on there. But anywhere I need to join two lines together I use -3AN.

From an ancient mailing list (remember those?), some good tech on why AN flares are good - http://yarchive.net/car/brake_lines.html.

HioSSilver

iTrader: (8)

Good info in the link. AN stuff is the way to go. Especially if you're doing stainless lines as double flares can crack stainless pretty easily.

And wtf is those bubble flares about. Why even have all these differences when AN is available and so easy to work with.