poorboy50

I was referred here in an attempt to get some definitive answers on the lowest cost way to put LS power in my sons 87 camaro which presently has a tired 2.8 with leaking 700r4 trans.

I have gotten advice ranging from:

buy a cheap 4.8 or 5.3 out of a 2000-2002 silverado on craigslist or junkyard buy a oil pan conversion kit and bolt it up to the 700r4 after doing a rebuild. Budget= under $2500.00

Buy a salvage 2004-2006 GTO or and pulll the motor and trans and drop it in.

Buy a 1998-2002 fbody LS1 and drop it in.

It all much to complicated for an amateur mechanic and I should not attempt it. I should pay a professional no less than 20K to do the swap.

I should junk the car because it is going to cost more to do the swap than buy a reliable low mileage 1998- 2002 LS1 Fbody already put together.

Any advice?

MY_2K_Z

iTrader: (1)

personally I'd take this route but at the same time doing a swap on your sons third gen as a father son project would create some memories that will outlast any car and I'm sure you would both learn a lot along the way.
But the 98-02 fbody route would probably be the cheapest option.

Smitty454

You are going to have to do some research on this site by using the search function. Im sure there are a ton of swaps that have already been done that are similar to what you are wanting to do.




If your budget is $2,500 and you cant do the work yourself then forget it. You would be better off buying a 98-02. I think even 2010 camaros are decently priced now.

Adam M

I bought a wrecked 99 trans am with 90000 miles on copart.com for 1800 shipped to my house. I took the seats, dash, steering column/wheel, rear end, brakes, wiring, dash, fuel system, ac, engine and trans out of the ta and put it all on my 86 Camaro. Then I sold the tpi ,wiring, and 700r4 as a unit for 700 bucks. Then I sold the hood, headers, rear hatch, headlight assemblies, SLP air box, subframe connectors, ttops, taillights, wheels, etc and scrapped the body for $100 from the TA and almost broke even on the swap. This was in 2013, but the cheapest way to do it is how I did it, and I bet you could still do it like that now. I did buy ls swap headers and a trans cross member from Hawks. I bet you could get a wrecked gto on copart now for 3-4 with the ls2. I've also been looking at Caprice police cars on govdeals.com recently. You can get the 6.0 with the 6l80 for like 3-4k running and driving. The F-body swaps are by far the easiest though.

Cheese Weasel

Here's some advice from a guy who's neck-deep into a third-generation F-body swap himself. HOPEFULLY you can learn from the mistakes that I've made:

• You'll be way ahead if you can find an LS-powered '99 to '02 F-body to swap from. You CAN swap an engine from a truck, a GTO, or whatever, but if you start with an LS-powered '99 to '02 F-body, you won't have to track down a new intake manifold, exhaust manifolds, serpentine belt drive accessories, oil pan, etc. Tracking down those parts is a pain in the rear that slows down the build - not to mention costly!!

• Along the same lines - TRY to buy an entire running car. That way you're likely to have all of the little miscellaneous crap that you need to get the new drivetrain running - stuff like relays, O2 sensors, etc.

• Personally, I'd recommend that you set a goal to "Just get the car running" before performing any ancillary upgrades. If you're anything like me, the temptation will be STRONG to say "While I already have this apart, I'll just..." I've added new ball joints & a bunch of other crap to my car that honestly haven't done anything to help me get it back on the road - in fact, they've eaten up time, effort & money that could've been used more efficiently. If I ever get my car back on the road again, I might see a payoff from all of that - so be aware of that temptation.

• Finally, from everything I've read in this forum, I'd really recommend that you use the Hooker swap kit for the 3rd-gen F-body. Yeah, I know, it's probably not the least-expensive way to go - but I've spent a LOT of time trying to retain the VVT function in my engine (which requires the use of a truck serpentine belt drive - which conflicts with the car intake manifold - but using the truck intake won't fit under the hood - see where I'm going with this??) The Holley system is exactly that - a SYSTEM that's been engineered to work together & to FIT into the car, so the headers don't run into the steering, the shifter lines up, etc. etc. etc. As a bonus, the guy who engineered the system is a member of this forum (well, he was the last time I looked anyway), & is kind enough to answer questions!!

Honestly, everyone says that swapping an LS drivetrain into one of these cars is pretty much the EASIEST LS swap there is (and it probably IS, if you don't multiply your own work/headaches like I have).

One last tip - there's another good forum that's dedicated to LS swaps in these cars. It's called ThirdGen.org (aka 'TGO').

I hope that this is helpful, post up in this forum if you decide to take the plunge - between the two forums, there are plenty of people who can answer questions, offer suggestions, etc.!

Cheese Weasel

One other thought - considering the fact that you're starting with a V-6 powered car, it would probably be a really good idea to look at whether or not the existing brakes will be sufficient, once you quadruple (or more) the original power output.

poorboy50

Thanks for the recommendations guys.

Out of curiosty, can anyone point me to a link where someone used an LS4 with the 2.8 V6 700r4 transmission in RWD application? Not saying I am going this route and I am aware of the starter issues etc. but just wondering if anyone has done one.

CattleAc

iTrader: (7)

From experience talking, get the idea of using that 700r4 out of your head...they are not worth the hassle of trying to use in an LS swap. 4l60e is the only option I'd consider. Has anyone used a 700r4?? Sure, but the 4l60e far outshines that option. They are electronically controlled, and a perfect match for what your trying to do. Another thing to consider is your "2.8L 700r4" will have a different bellhousing than the LS...

G Atsma

The LS4 he mentioned has the V6 bell housing, as it's the front drive version of the LS. You are right though. I doubt that 700R4 would live behind even the LS4, as it still puts out 300HP.

2ToeRacing

iTrader: (5)

I think a LS4 is only for a front wheel drive setup. It looks like something else will bolt up but i don't think so

CattleAc

iTrader: (7)

I guess I should have been more specific...I was referring to his original post about using an LS1 or a truck engine...


Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the "LS4" blocks have a provision for a starter...this might be more than a "first time swapper" wants to undertake...

G Atsma

Totally agree! On both counts...

poorboy50

Correct. LS4 has no engine mount starter provision. The starter was transmission mounted. As I mentioned there are at least 3 tested workarounds for this that are not terribly complicated. I just don't know how they fit for space. I feel much more capable of adapting a starter than I do fooling with ECM's, tunes, head swaps. I see it as a trade off. all the accessories /accessory drive should fit without any mods needed so I can spend that time and $ on making the starter adaptations.

I am not trying to say this is easier than a LS1 swap out of a 98-2002. I am just exploring alternative options if I cant find a fbody donor that is agreeable price and mileage. Seems like this might be easier than the truck swap a lot of guys have done and has the potential to save some $.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Budgets are not binary. An LS4 (when I thought about one for a prior car of mine) would have extra work in changing the trans., accessory drive, starter, exhaust, coolant routing, and would have zero actual benefits over the closest equivalent truck 5.3 (2007) So, your single saving point of the trans. would leave you with a hodge podge car with everything serviced from different vehicles and zero functional benefits to show for it. Nor budget savings after you chased down all the makeitfit parts.

The LS1 compete package advice is golden. Best advice at this point is keep reading here and third gen. You're not covering new territory at all, but info tends to be spread out all over the place, so you need to compile it before all your questions are answered.
PS, the LS4 information in threads by Fieroguru makes for good reading.

camarof41_383

iTrader: (7)

I would suggest starting here https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...third-gen.html

There are also a few facebook groups that can be helpful.

Thirdgen LS swaps have been done a lot of times so it's pretty easy to find all the information that you need these days. I've done 3 LS swaps on thirdgens and as others have suggested I would buy a complete 98-02 F-Body if possible(that's probably the easiest way to do it). If you end up buying a truck engine Matt at Walter Racecraft sells a swap kit with the mounts, oil pan, accessory brackets etc for a good price.

cypris09

iTrader: (1)

Thirdgens are easy. I had a gta with a tpi. Bought summit ls to sbc mounts. Dropped in a 5.3 with car accessories and intake. Hawks crossmember and a 4l60e. You can even reuse your driveshaft. For the price of a 4th gen just for the motor and tranny is just to much. 5.3 and a 4l60e is like 1100$ comes with harness too. Pretty sure there was a write up on thirdgen.org to wire to your bulkhead and use the stock gauges ( if it's a tpi)