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First Time Out With My New Build - Please Help Me Get Faster

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First Time Out With My New Build - Please Help Me Get Faster

Old 10-30-2018, 01:47 PM
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Default First Time Out With My New Build - Please Help Me Get Faster

Hey Everyone, my name is Cameron and this is my first "real" post. I will apologize now for the long thread, I am going to try to include as much info as I can. I have a 99 SS Camaro 3.42 M6 with 30,700 miles. I recently completed a cam swap and supporting mods. Prior to, the car was 100% bone stock. On June 8th I took the car to Cecil County Dragway to have some sort of a "baseline" for before and after results of my build. I've only drag raced twice before but never with a manual transmission, although I've driven stick shift my entire life. I ran a somewhat disappointing 13.982 @ 102.20 with a 2.164 60'. I launched with a 3,500 rpm clutch slip and it hooked, but it did spin a little near the top of 1st gear. Went through the traps most of the way through 3rd gear. I then ventured into my first build. I bought WS6Store's High Lift ASA cam kit with PAC dual springs, titanium retainers, and 1 PC seat-and-seals. Rollmaster billet timing set. M295 high pressure oil pump. TSP 1-7/8" long tubes. SE true duals. LS6 intake. Racetronix 255lph fuel pump & hotwire. SLP lid and K&N. I kept my stock 853 heads for now. Goal was 400 rwhp 90% street 10% strip. I installed everything myself and took it to the dyno. The car made 392.10 rwhp @ 5,950 rpm and 388.54 rwtq @ 4,830 rpm. I was pleased with the numbers, however the car didnt quite feel as "quick" as I had expected in my mind. Traction in 1st and 2nd gear was greatly reduced compared to stock but it didnt quite have the upper end pull I envisioned. Keep in mind this is my first time around and I dont have anything to really base an expectation off of. The car seems to drive pretty damn good and I was happy to drive a cammed-up loud f-body I was proud to say I built. On October 17th I went back to Cecil County Dragway to get some results! This time I was aware of DA and it was in the neighborhood of -150'. Looking back on the internet, DA on June 8th was around +1500. A friend of mine lent me his 10" wide wheels with 285/40-18 Nitto NT05R's. To get an accurate "before and after" I made my first pass on my stock 275/40-17 Goodyear eagles. I ran 13.331 @ 111.84 with a lame 2.496 60'. I did a very lazy 4000 rpm clutch slip expecting it to spin but it did not. I also expected to still go through the traps in 3rd gear, especially with my 6,600 rev limit, but it hit the limiter near the line and I carried it through on the limiter. I got the slip and was a little disappointed but knew with a better launch and shifting to 4th I would easily break into the 12s. I went to the pits and swapped on the drag radials. This was my first time using a pair. I did a 4,500 rpm faster but still easy clutch slip, this time shifting to 4th, and ran a 13.203 @ 111.33 with a 2.225 60'. It did not spin. As soon as the clutch fully engaged and I felt the hook I knew I still didnt launch hard enough. I still expected that to be a high 12 sec pass and it wasnt. I was disappointed, but it motivated me to go one last time. This time I did a 4,500 rpm fast clutch slip. It was the least amount of slip you could do without being a dump. The thing hooked and kind of bogged a little but went good. Again shifting into 4th through the traps, getting back to the throttle for a tiny little bit before passing through the traps. I knew this was my 12. I got the slip and it was a disappointing 13.023 @ 111.08 with a 2.076 60'. I was happy that I improved each time but disappointed I didnt break into the 12's. Honestly I was secretly hoping to maaaybe break into the 11's prior to actually running the car for the first time modded. I guess that where all my disappointment stemed from, were my goals and expectations too high? What do you guys thing about my results? I'd like to get faster if it is available with your guys help! Thanks in advance!

Last edited by 99SSLSWON; 11-04-2018 at 06:13 PM.
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Old 10-30-2018, 01:55 PM
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Give it time. Being a newbie to the track and the new mods it's expected that you'll mess up up. With those mods you'll be deep into the 12's once you figure things out
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Old 10-30-2018, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by HCI2000SS View Post
Give it time. Being a newbie to the track and the new mods it's expected that you'll mess up up. With those mods you'll be deep into the 12's once you figure things out
Thanks, lol you are right I am a newb. The thing is though, short of launching like a sissy I dont see where I am messing up? I considered my last launch pretty good, and I rowed through the gears fine? Also, I thought it was strange my mph went down each time even though my ET went down. I did put on different size tires from the 1st to the 2nd & 3rd passes. But even my 2nd to 3rd pass the mph went down? I thought maybe my rear end gear was holding me back a little by topping out where it does and losing time for a basically pointless shift into 4th just to pass the traps. What is a realistic good 60' time on stock suspension? Does 111 mph still have plenty of room to grow ET wise?
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Old 10-30-2018, 03:49 PM
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Lots of possibilities here to explain this. But regardless of all that I will say that gaining about 10 mph like you did (from stock to current mods) sounds about right. But at the same time both trap speeds are a bit low too. With some practice on those NT05R's I'm sure you can get into the 1.8 60ft range rather easily
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Old 10-30-2018, 05:21 PM
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You need a two step to launch a manual. Just less things to worry about getting going. Took my pathetic 2.1 to 1.7-8 60fts first time using it.
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Old 10-30-2018, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Toes View Post
You need a two step to launch a manual. Just less things to worry about getting going. Took my pathetic 2.1 to 1.7-8 60fts first time using it.
That's good to know, thanks! I've seen a few of the MSD LS units for sale on here, any good? Question about them, when the clutch is depressed to the floor and the clutch switch for the 2 step is activated and it is up on the limiter. Does the engine rev up in the time/distance between clutch pedal on the floor to clutch engagement?
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Old 10-31-2018, 08:35 AM
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Itís just off the switch on or off. Press the clutch , floor it an release the clutch Leave at the desired rpm you selected. Itís a easy install more than a few videos online to walk you through it. It will damage cat converters so beware.
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Old 10-31-2018, 04:36 PM
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I don't see any mention of a tune. I'm half blind though. Has it been tuned?

Also, what clutch?
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Old 10-31-2018, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by gesto View Post
I don't see any mention of a tune. I'm half blind though. Has it been tuned?

Also, what clutch?
Yes I did have it dyno tuned at Complete Street Performance on September 19th. I have my dyno sheet if that would help? It is the original stock clutch. The clutch has 30,700 miles on it. The clutch didn't slip...yet lol. Could my clutch be holding me back?
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Old 10-31-2018, 06:01 PM
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If your clutch isn't slipping then it's not holding you back.
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Old 11-01-2018, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by 99SSLSWON View Post
Thanks, lol you are right I am a newb. The thing is though, short of launching like a sissy I dont see where I am messing up? I considered my last launch pretty good, and I rowed through the gears fine? Also, I thought it was strange my mph went down each time even though my ET went down. I did put on different size tires from the 1st to the 2nd & 3rd passes. But even my 2nd to 3rd pass the mph went down? I thought maybe my rear end gear was holding me back a little by topping out where it does and losing time for a basically pointless shift into 4th just to pass the traps. What is a realistic good 60' time on stock suspension? Does 111 mph still have plenty of room to grow ET wise?
It really is all in the 60 foot times. The MPH looks good. If you get the 60 foot down then 12's are in your future! Our 02 WS6, 6spd ran 12.75 @ 109.78 best pass to date. It will usually run low 13's @ 108+ at most drag strips. It is stock tune with lid and drag radials at 3,665 lbs. Best 60 foot times 1.80s come from 2k launch riding the clutch out.

Next time out try leaving at a lower RPM.

Hope this helps!

N2
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Old 11-02-2018, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by 99SSLSWON View Post
It is the original stock clutch. The clutch has 30,700 miles on it. The clutch didn't slip...yet lol. Could my clutch be holding me back?
The key is going to be proper gearing and getting the clutch to slip the perfect amount. Not enough clutch slip will either spin the radials, bog the engine, or break parts. Too much clutch slip will make the launch lazy. Just the right amount of clutch slip will get the car launched efficiently, sticking the tires without bogging the engine or killing hp.

You say the engine makes 388.54 ftlbs @ 4830, which equals 357 hp. If you bog that engine down to 3000rpm after launch, even if it's making max torque at 3k it's still only making 221hp thru that 3k low point of the bog. Your engine needs to be operating in that range between max torque and max HP, and with radials you accomplish that with gearing and clutch slip. You can still get to mid/low 12's with your current gearing, but it will probably take more clutch than you have now with something to control it's hit. Add proper gearing to that better clutch setup, you can get 1.5 60's and into the 11's.

Grant


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Old 11-02-2018, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by N2RACINGLS1's View Post
It really is all in the 60 foot times. The MPH looks good. If you get the 60 foot down then 12's are in your future! Our 02 WS6, 6spd ran 12.75 @ 109.78 best pass to date. It will usually run low 13's @ 108+ at most drag strips. It is stock tune with lid and drag radials at 3,665 lbs. Best 60 foot times 1.80s come from 2k launch riding the clutch out.

Next time out try leaving at a lower RPM.

Hope this helps!

N2
A friend of mine also suggested leaving at a lower RPM. It just doesn't make sense to me lol, but I am far from experienced haha. I will definitely have to try this nest time, thanks!

Originally Posted by weedburner View Post
The key is going to be proper gearing and getting the clutch to slip the perfect amount. Not enough clutch slip will either spin the radials, bog the engine, or break parts. Too much clutch slip will make the launch lazy. Just the right amount of clutch slip will get the car launched efficiently, sticking the tires without bogging the engine or killing hp.

You say the engine makes 388.54 ftlbs @ 4830, which equals 357 hp. If you bog that engine down to 3000rpm after launch, even if it's making max torque at 3k it's still only making 221hp thru that 3k low point of the bog. Your engine needs to be operating in that range between max torque and max HP, and with radials you accomplish that with gearing and clutch slip. You can still get to mid/low 12's with your current gearing, but it will probably take more clutch than you have now with something to control it's hit. Add proper gearing to that better clutch setup, you can get 1.5 60's and into the 11's.

Grant
Grant, that is some great info, thank you for sharing! I'd like to send you a PM and pick your brain a little more to help me get faster. Those times you mention make me happy and optimistic lol.
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Old 11-03-2018, 08:08 AM
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Do yourself a big favor, look for a rear for the car, with the right gears in it... 4.10 or 4.3 for a setup like yours will be good.

after that no worries about breaking things there, a good driveshaft, atunnel mounted ya arm, and a 15 inch rim package with a bias ply tire..... and then a good clutch.

put it at 6000 and just dump it... and be ready to shift 2nd quick.



another very worth while mod despite what some will tell you, when the trans breaks look for the GTO s6 speed, they had a 2.97 first instead of the standard 2.66, this makes launching the car a TON easier, and the 1-2 ratios will net way better 330 times, that gearbox I have seen drop et’s by .2-.3 over std ones, on cars like yours that are heavier and stockish, fwiw.
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Old 11-03-2018, 09:55 AM
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This man speaks the truth ^
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Old 11-04-2018, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by JL ws-6 View Post
Do yourself a big favor, look for a rear for the car, with the right gears in it... 4.10 or 4.3 for a setup like yours will be good.

after that no worries about breaking things there, a good driveshaft, atunnel mounted ya arm, and a 15 inch rim package with a bias ply tire..... and then a good clutch.

put it at 6000 and just dump it... and be ready to shift 2nd quick.



another very worth while mod despite what some will tell you, when the trans breaks look for the GTO s6 speed, they had a 2.97 first instead of the standard 2.66, this makes launching the car a TON easier, and the 1-2 ratios will net way better 330 times, that gearbox I have seen drop etís by .2-.3 over std ones, on cars like yours that are heavier and stockish, fwiw.
More good information, thank you! How are 4.10's vs. 4.30's on the street? I am now definitely looking for a rear. The goat T56 is a good tid-bit to keep in my back pocket too.
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Old 11-04-2018, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by JL ws-6 View Post
Do yourself a big favor, look for a rear for the car, with the right gears in it... 4.10 or 4.3 for a setup like yours will be good.

after that no worries about breaking things there, a good driveshaft, atunnel mounted ya arm, and a 15 inch rim package with a bias ply tire..... and then a good clutch.

put it at 6000 and just dump it... and be ready to shift 2nd quick.



another very worth while mod despite what some will tell you, when the trans breaks look for the GTO s6 speed, they had a 2.97 first instead of the standard 2.66, this makes launching the car a TON easier, and the 1-2 ratios will net way better 330 times, that gearbox I have seen drop etís by .2-.3 over std ones, on cars like yours that are heavier and stockish, fwiw.
I agree with this also.
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Old 11-09-2018, 09:32 AM
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He don't need anymore mods.....mods will do nothing for him as this has already shown.

He needs seat time. These cars are very capable of running 11s with a stick on a 10bolt with bolt ons and 12s is a breeze to do.....especially at a track like Cecil. That's like stock and free mod territory.
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Old 11-09-2018, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by 99SSLSWON View Post
More good information, thank you! How are 4.10's vs. 4.30's on the street? I am now definitely looking for a rear. The goat T56 is a good tid-bit to keep in my back pocket too.

i know now more than one guy that ran 4.56ís for a while, 4.30 is a good compromise for street/track duty.
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Old 11-09-2018, 07:13 PM
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You wont be disappointed with 4.30 or 4.56 gears with a 6 speed. I run 4.11s in my TA and wish I went with something steeper. What PSI are you running your radials at?
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