LSmokin1

iTrader: (6)

I've been watching Bludevil415's thread for awhile now and I thought I would post up my AFR 205 results as well.
Awhile back a bought a used set of AFR 205's. Long story short the valve job & valves turned out to not be what orignally had come from AFR and where of sub standard quality and severly hurting the flow #'s. I got into contact with Tony & he was kind enough to fix them while added some of his own work to optimize the heads for a 4"bore. He also ported my FASt 92 manifold for me. Needless to say I got everything back & the project couldnt have turned out any better. The car dyno'd 507RWHP 475RWTQ on a mustang dyno and Has been a best of 10.80 @ 129 on a 275/40/17 Hoosier DR.

Built list:
2000 Camaro M6 weighs 3750 w/driver
402ci 11:1 compression biult off a LQ9 block
AFR 205's optimized for a 4" bore by Tony Mamo
Custom Pat G cam 240's duration
Fast 92 ported by Tony Mamo with a 90mm TB
Fast Toys 85mm Lid with paper fram air filter
Edelbrock 1 3/4 to 1 7/8 Headers to a SLP Dual Dual Cat back with Cutout
Monster Stage 4 Clutch
Strange 12bolt 3.90 gear


Some things I feel I should mention. The car does not have an electric water pump & the clutch inst something I'd exactly call lightweight. The car still has not had any weight reduction at all. The track passes where even done with the spare tire and jack still in the hatch! The dyno runs where also run through a paper Fram air filter and with the cutout CLOSED. We did quite a few back to back runs on the dyno and it did not seem to pick up any power with either the air filter removed or the cutout open. Maybe 2-3 HP at best. Tony had a few ideas on why this was and I may change somethings around this winter to see what happens. My goal was to build the best street car I could and I think it turned out beatuifully. Its a blast to drive.

Below are the dyno sheets & timeslip. Please excuse the poor quality. Also I know posted 2 different dyno sheets. I didnt get a print out of the highest dyno #'s with a graph. Somehow I only got the inital run when we where tuning. But I included it so everyone could see the HP & TQ curves.








Yes the tire is off the ground

butler

good numbers. Lighten it a little and it will do 10.5's. But if not just get your 60' down a bit.

MikeG

iTrader: (33)

Really nice combo you have there. I bet the throttle response is VERY crisp with those heads on there. Your launch pic is pretty sick too, almost looks photoshopped with those 17" wheels on there.

fast

iTrader: (24)

looks good and backs it up ... very cool

BayAreaSS

iTrader: (10)

That combo is working very well for you. Congrats on a good build and strong car!

Fbodyjunkie06

iTrader: (10)

Love how it is picking the tires up with a 17" DR that's hooking even with a 1.59 60'. Time for a 200 shot and 9's!!!

Anniversary "Z"

iTrader: (26)

Time for some skinnies!! Did Tony say anything if the 225's would benefit your setup? I had the 205's on my 382 and always felt like they were holding me back some.

MYSTIC-1SC

iTrader: (14)

Nice results.

navyblueSS

iTrader: (1)

Nice numbers!

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

Guys,

Ive done numerous 402 - 415 CID combinations with the "Mamofied" 205's with excellent real world results both on the dyno and (better yet) in the real world on the street and at the racetrack.

Peak power in the low to mid 500's to the tire seems to be the norm, depending on the rest of the combination and driveline of course, with an explosive power delivery from the drivers seat at any RPM. In fact, IMO thats the best thing about a package like this and you have to experience it to truly appreciate it. The engine is extremely responsive and feels 30 CID larger when you have this type of set-up (a really efficient optimized head with a conservative sized runner). The fact you can also put up a big number and have it translate to ET's at the dragstrip as well makes it that much sweeter!

Ive helped numerous folks with road race applications and the ported 205's as well and they especially like it because it explodes off a low RPM slow corner and still pulls hard on the backstretch turning some big RPM.....it truly is the have your cake and eat it to package if you cam it and set it up properly!

OP....Thanks for taking the time to share your results and I'm pleased everything worked as planned!



Cheers,
Tony

rpmauto

iTrader: (14)

great results. I love the 225s that Tony did for me. Havent had it to the dyno yet, but it ran 11.2 @123 with me shiftin like granny. Will go in the 10s on motor for sure. Also 3850#w/me raceweight.

The Alchemist

iTrader: (19)

I understand what you're saying Tony, but do you think his setup would pick up any more torque with a set of 225's vs. your customized 205s?

litle88

iTrader: (20)

Congrats man, nice numbers. I cant wait for Mike to tune my new set up this spring, but hoping for late winter! But the difference will be Ls3 416 and LPE Ls3 heads. So we will see. LOL did you go SD tune or MAF?

Thanks
Zeke

chevyls10

iTrader: (2)

It was still run as a MAF car

litle88

iTrader: (20)

What MAF was he using?

chevyls10

iTrader: (2)

Honestly was the SLP 85mm maf. We didn't care it had that resistor soldered in since in this case it kept us from pegging the maf

LSmokin1

iTrader: (6)

The car was completely built by myself & tuned by Brandon from Fast Motorsports. I just rented the dyno from straight line because I prefer a mustang dyno & they have one of the only ones in the area.

Anniversary "Z"

iTrader: (26)

x2 I wasn't ******* the 205's I had as far as how they flowed, but I wonder as the 402-415 combos you tested is there a significant benefit to having the 225s and at what point are the 205's "maxxed out"?

LSmokin1

iTrader: (6)

I've been talking with Tony about switching. It maybe in the works for this winter. I'll let him weigh in on the pro's & con's.


In my particular combo I dont think they are holding me back at all. The power does peak relatively early (6300) compared to some other combos but it pulls all the way to 7K without droping off. I believe my intake & exhaust will be a restriction long before the cylinder head is max'd out.

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

Good question....

Peak airflow primarily determines peak power capabilities....in the case of a ported 205, low 300 CFM figures can support approximately 600 horses (at the crank)....a bit more when placed on a 400+ CID shortblock (which reflect low to low/mid 500's to the wheel). Some of the the better results I have seen with the ported 205's on 400+ CID engines have typically been in Vette's and have made in the 520 - 535 RWHP range. The highest dyno'ing car was a 416 package I designed awhile back taking the crown @ 548 RWHP (also in a Vette) with a healthy cam, a ported FAST I helped him with, and all the little extras (EWP, UDP, lightweight clutch and flywheel, , etc.). Peak power came in quickly also at around 63-6400 if I recall....it was extremely stout with really snappy response in spite of the mid/high 240's bumpstick in it (another perk of the conservative runner/high airspeed design).

Let me get back on track here.....the other important head parameters....volume (CSA more specifically) and the overall curve below peak (all the low and midlift flow) will determine primarily what the rest of the curve looks like (how strong the bottom is and how fast the power curve ramps up to peak) and plays a big role in part throttle roll on and "tip in" in high gear. Also, take two heads with similar peak flow and one of them with alot more area under the curve and you will see more peak power being made and alot more past peak power (it wont roll over as quickly) because thats when the engine is most starved for air and the extra air airflow in the lower and mid-lifts will help to better fill (and empty) the cylinder when there is so little time to do so (at high RPM when you have minuscule fractions of a second to do so!)

A 225 ultimately provides more peak power potential but the shape of the curve would look notably different than the ported 205's taking longer to ramp up and then carrying it a little better upstairs.

I think the larger point of interest here is that most people would write off a 205 for a 400+ CID project too quickly and say the head is too small....it wont make any power upstairs...and of course most of what we have been discussing (in this thread at least) involves ported 205 heads which does offer a significant flow and power advantage over an out of the box set which would be better taken advantage of on an engine that has some displacement and can really tap into all that head has to offer.

Once again its all about combination....how much power you want or need to make.....how much you value part throttle response where a smaller efficient head really shines.....lots of things to weigh when deciding which route to take in cylinder head selection. In some cases the larger head is the right choice....in others the smaller head may prove to be more valuable, but the good news is if you already own a set of 205's, even going with a stroker doesn't necessarily warrant selling them....especially if it's a heavy car (3500+) that spends most of its time prowling the street.



-Tony