Dyno Results AFR Heads Unlocked A4
03-29-2011, 09:30 PM
#21
"Actually, I'm having a VERY hard time..."
Fine. No problem at all. I fully understand. It was our club dyno day last Saturday and there were plenty of witnesses and other cars getting dyno'd. Here is our club dyno day thread over on thirdgen.org plus there are others threads on the subject. By the way we have been at this for quite awhile. That being modifying the TPI for higher airflow. Track results will be from the Los Angeles Invasion on Memorial Day weekend. So we will see if the power and track results coinside.
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/so...o-results.html
Fine. No problem at all. I fully understand. It was our club dyno day last Saturday and there were plenty of witnesses and other cars getting dyno'd. Here is our club dyno day thread over on thirdgen.org plus there are others threads on the subject. By the way we have been at this for quite awhile. That being modifying the TPI for higher airflow. Track results will be from the Los Angeles Invasion on Memorial Day weekend. So we will see if the power and track results coinside.
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/so...o-results.html
Last edited by 1989GTA; 03-29-2011 at 10:44 PM.
03-30-2011, 11:13 AM
#25
"Actually, I'm having a VERY hard time..."
Fine. No problem at all. I fully understand. It was our club dyno day last Saturday and there were plenty of witnesses and other cars getting dyno'd. Here is our club dyno day thread over on thirdgen.org plus there are others threads on the subject. By the way we have been at this for quite awhile. That being modifying the TPI for higher airflow. Track results will be from the Los Angeles Invasion on Memorial Day weekend. So we will see if the power and track results coinside.
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/so...o-results.html
Fine. No problem at all. I fully understand. It was our club dyno day last Saturday and there were plenty of witnesses and other cars getting dyno'd. Here is our club dyno day thread over on thirdgen.org plus there are others threads on the subject. By the way we have been at this for quite awhile. That being modifying the TPI for higher airflow. Track results will be from the Los Angeles Invasion on Memorial Day weekend. So we will see if the power and track results coinside.
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/so...o-results.html
Just for reference, I make nearly identical power and torque, through an unlocked Yank PT4000 and I see 124 traps at 3700+lbs.
Originally Posted by Pwebbz28
Obviously the non-believers have never driven a highly modified TPI
Last edited by Marc 85Z28; 03-30-2011 at 11:19 AM.
03-30-2011, 02:48 PM
#27
"I make nearly identical power and torque, through an unlocked Yank PT4000 and I see 124 traps at 3700+lbs"
I think my car with me in it(260) weighs around 3660 pounds. It is a fully loaded GTA. I am looking for trap speeds of around 118mph. Those numbers are very impressive for a Yank PT4000 so there is no way I will be able to approach those trap speeds.
Regarding the drivability. With the current BFG 255/16 Sport tires on the rear there is no traction at anything near wide open throttle. I almost lost it trying to check the shift point going from 2nd to 3rd gear. It has broken loose before in 2nd gear and it did this time but rehooked like before. However a bit later the rear end started to swing around at speed. It happened so fast and smoothly it scared me. I could easily have spun out. So I am getting some 17x11 rims and tires for the back for safety reasons.
Yes I will report on the track results. By the way I almost forgot. I had the motor on and engine dyno after it was built but we used a Victor Jr and I don't remember the carburetor. So basically trading a little hp for torque with my TPI intake system. Also at that time the headers were not coated and the air tubes were not installed(California Smog). Here is the best dyno result with the headers that are now on the car. This is with hot oil and a cool motor. Normal warm runs were a good 5hp less.
Here is the engine dyno chart.
I think my car with me in it(260) weighs around 3660 pounds. It is a fully loaded GTA. I am looking for trap speeds of around 118mph. Those numbers are very impressive for a Yank PT4000 so there is no way I will be able to approach those trap speeds.
Regarding the drivability. With the current BFG 255/16 Sport tires on the rear there is no traction at anything near wide open throttle. I almost lost it trying to check the shift point going from 2nd to 3rd gear. It has broken loose before in 2nd gear and it did this time but rehooked like before. However a bit later the rear end started to swing around at speed. It happened so fast and smoothly it scared me. I could easily have spun out. So I am getting some 17x11 rims and tires for the back for safety reasons.
Yes I will report on the track results. By the way I almost forgot. I had the motor on and engine dyno after it was built but we used a Victor Jr and I don't remember the carburetor. So basically trading a little hp for torque with my TPI intake system. Also at that time the headers were not coated and the air tubes were not installed(California Smog). Here is the best dyno result with the headers that are now on the car. This is with hot oil and a cool motor. Normal warm runs were a good 5hp less.
Here is the engine dyno chart.
03-30-2011, 04:19 PM
#28
Don't get me wrong here... I'd love to see your car go mid 11s with traps approaching 120. That would be a huge milestone for the TPI crowd, especially after all these years of being told you need an alternate style port injection system like a SuperRam or MiniRam. And to do it CA emissions legal? 
03-30-2011, 05:01 PM
#29
What he has done to the intake system is not really anything new. Several people have reported the same gains with the same modifications. I don't quite understand his header system as I always used long tubes cause I didn't have to worry about emissions. As far a experience goes I have had a few TPI cars in the 6's in the 1/8 mile. One was even a 100% stock motor with nothing more than lontubes and a big bottle :-)
03-30-2011, 05:15 PM
#31
So let me ask the somewhat obvious....(or perhaps not so obvious)
The day you dyno'ed....where there other similar combinations putting down numbers more in-line with the type of application we are discussing?? (or at least examples on the same dyno from other days worthy of comparison?)
That would be a good indicator of just how generous or how stingy the chassis dyno you tested on really is.
If other cars were rolling numbers more generally accepted to be in the range of normal, it would be alot harder to question or call BS on your results for obvious reasons.
Ultimately trap speeds (accounting for Density Altitude) will reflect whats really going on but it would be nice to know (for all the doubters) that on the same dyno other cars ran what would be more "industry standard" for lack of a better phrase at the moment.
That said I would also like to mention that those of you who know all the attention to detail you poured into this (and the hours you invested to get here!) have a much easier time believing the numbers are legit though!
Cheers,
Tony
The day you dyno'ed....where there other similar combinations putting down numbers more in-line with the type of application we are discussing?? (or at least examples on the same dyno from other days worthy of comparison?)
That would be a good indicator of just how generous or how stingy the chassis dyno you tested on really is.
If other cars were rolling numbers more generally accepted to be in the range of normal, it would be alot harder to question or call BS on your results for obvious reasons.
Ultimately trap speeds (accounting for Density Altitude) will reflect whats really going on but it would be nice to know (for all the doubters) that on the same dyno other cars ran what would be more "industry standard" for lack of a better phrase at the moment.
That said I would also like to mention that those of you who know all the attention to detail you poured into this (and the hours you invested to get here!) have a much easier time believing the numbers are legit though!
Cheers,
Tony
03-30-2011, 05:32 PM
#32
Yes there were Tony. One car that has been having problems was around 355RWHP the same as the last two or three dyno session over the last year plus that he has participated in . His car was going over a cliff at 5700rpm. Well this time the piston in cylinder number four broke and he has taken the engine apart. Found a busted valve spring in cylinder #3 plus a ruined block. So hopefully he has found his problem.
One other car with a 383 highly modified SuperRam made the same power as the last time out to his disdain. I think he was at 394rwhp but the torque was only around 370rwtq. We have been making incremental improvements to these car over a long period of time. We learn from each session on what works and does not work.
Basically the bottom line is if a head flows 300CFM how do you take advantage of the available air flow. Exhaust system, ram air from inertia and wave tuning. Those are the things we are fine tuning.
If you think about it what is the difference between a TPI and an LSX intake taking the CSA and length out of it for the moment. The runners from the plenum to the head are both shaped like a ? mark. One is upside down of the other. Obviously the LSX is better for packaging. However if one was to take a TPI and try and duplicate an LSX intake system then you come up with something similar to an LSX or come close. As Tony said it is in the details.
One other car with a 383 highly modified SuperRam made the same power as the last time out to his disdain. I think he was at 394rwhp but the torque was only around 370rwtq. We have been making incremental improvements to these car over a long period of time. We learn from each session on what works and does not work.
Basically the bottom line is if a head flows 300CFM how do you take advantage of the available air flow. Exhaust system, ram air from inertia and wave tuning. Those are the things we are fine tuning.
If you think about it what is the difference between a TPI and an LSX intake taking the CSA and length out of it for the moment. The runners from the plenum to the head are both shaped like a ? mark. One is upside down of the other. Obviously the LSX is better for packaging. However if one was to take a TPI and try and duplicate an LSX intake system then you come up with something similar to an LSX or come close. As Tony said it is in the details.
03-30-2011, 06:02 PM
#33
Almost unbelievable numbers, a bit of an investment for the casual guy @ $10k but you've definitely proven your point about TPI's being strong contenders.
If anyone is going to do it, its going to be this guy. Just remember that we have horrible track conditions... 3000+ DA and hot weather.
Don't get me wrong here... I'd love to see your car go mid 11s with traps approaching 120. That would be a huge milestone for the TPI crowd, especially after all these years of being told you need an alternate style port injection system like a SuperRam or MiniRam. And to do it CA emissions legal?
03-31-2011, 07:24 AM
#34
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FWIW,i know a guy with a 92 firebird running consistent 12.20s.combo consists of LPE ported stock heads, and a LPE 219 duration cam.
can't remember the intake but i think it's a modified OEM TPI deal.
very mild mannered car that was beating a few LS1s(including mine)the last time i saw him at the track.with the better heads and cam,and attention to detail,i don't see what is so hard to believe about his numbers.
can't remember the intake but i think it's a modified OEM TPI deal.
very mild mannered car that was beating a few LS1s(including mine)the last time i saw him at the track.with the better heads and cam,and attention to detail,i don't see what is so hard to believe about his numbers.
03-31-2011, 09:59 AM
#35
Launching!
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FWIW,i know a guy with a 92 firebird running consistent 12.20s.combo consists of LPE ported stock heads, and a LPE 219 duration cam.
can't remember the intake but i think it's a modified OEM TPI deal.
very mild mannered car that was beating a few LS1s(including mine)the last time i saw him at the track.with the better heads and cam,and attention to detail,i don't see what is so hard to believe about his numbers.
can't remember the intake but i think it's a modified OEM TPI deal.
very mild mannered car that was beating a few LS1s(including mine)the last time i saw him at the track.with the better heads and cam,and attention to detail,i don't see what is so hard to believe about his numbers.
03-31-2011, 12:50 PM
#37
Last year at the Los Angeles Invasion with the old motor I ran a 12.09 @113 with a density altitude of 3200 to 3500 ft. Just terrible air that kept me away from an 11 second run. Anyways I am working on a large long tube runner project for those interested. Here is a teaser photo comparing a stock TPI runner and with new one. You can see the difference in CSA. This baby will flow some air. It is larger than the current intake system that I dyno'd with at the top of this thread.
03-31-2011, 01:11 PM
#38
The runners on the right look almost like AZS&M runners.
Just a piece of info, My cousin had a 92z we built with TPIS 187 AFR heads and a TPIS zz409 grind with longtubes and a HSR intake dyno 368 rwhp and torque was the same. Full weight, the car ran 11.83@ 116 with a 1.63 60ft.
Just a piece of info, My cousin had a 92z we built with TPIS 187 AFR heads and a TPIS zz409 grind with longtubes and a HSR intake dyno 368 rwhp and torque was the same. Full weight, the car ran 11.83@ 116 with a 1.63 60ft.
Sounds like a very nice 92Z your cousin had. Those are some fast times.