Thank you Eps, Tony Mamo, Ai, and Blue Cat Tuning. Number Inside - LS1TECH - Camaro and Firebird Forum Discussion



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Thank you Eps, Tony Mamo, Ai, and Blue Cat Tuning. Number Inside

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Old 05-28-2011, 02:42 AM   #1
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Default Thank you Eps, Tony Mamo, Ai, and Blue Cat Tuning. Number Inside

Well I will start off with a few things my tuner informed me. First off he says his dyno is a stingy one so he compared it to some cars he has put on the dyno in the past. He told me my 02 z06 puts out basically the same numbers at 350 rwhp bone stock. He also showed me that my car put out 15 rwhp all across the board and carried it
to 7k rather then 6500 rpm that a stock ls7 z06 puts out stock so this should give an idea on what his dyno reads. My car did 447 rwhp and 399 tq. The car didn't peak and we twisted it to 7k and didn't feel the need run the car any harder because we felt the tune was there. The intake work cam and heads seem to put out like they were intended. These runs were done around 70-75 degrees with misty rain and on the outer skirts of the appalacian mountains

Mods are

Fast 90 ported by Mamo
Eps 600 603. 230 238 on 112
AI 243 with hollows and beehives
Ati underdrive
Katech chain and pump
Ls2 tb
Ls7 lifters
Fic 36lbs injectors running at 80 duty
Haltech bridge mod done to accept a blackwing
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Old 05-28-2011, 02:57 AM   #2
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The ? is are you happy with the numbers?
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Old 05-28-2011, 03:00 AM   #3
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Also has kooks catless 1 7/8

No dyno tricks were done running belt and also using stock ti mufflers. Cut outs didn't make it in time. My goals were a consistent low 11 maybe dip into 10's every now and then. The car is a perfect driver no surge or anything lugging it in 6th. Got 24-25 mpg cruise set at 78 pulling the hill for the 100 mile rude home. You cant tell it from stock except power band moving up 1k and the lope and rocking at idle. Guys who are looking to do a hc set up Advanced induction work is awesome and so is mamos intake work. The intake was originally done by vengeance and he put it to shame. That eps cam is wild, it pulled 437 at 6k and holds it and gains as far as you want to twist it. Blue cats tune is great. Spent 5 hours with my car and got it perfect. He claims it is the strongest NA stock bottom end 346 he's done with the next one 10 rwhp more but he had 4500 worth of heads work. Sorry for being so long winded but I got a new toy. Thanks everyone. Question is. Will it get those 10's
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Old 05-28-2011, 03:05 AM   #4
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I want times , I thought it would do between 460-470 on a good day. This is the first car I ever strapped down. I chose those numbers as a goal because I assumed that is what it would take to get those times. Paper is nothing to me. If it's a runner I'm good. Car also has 120k on it
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Old 05-28-2011, 04:00 AM   #5
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Phils dyno is kind of a heart breaker but im like you its all about the times. Get it to the track and see what it does.Phil is a great tuner and a good guy. He was willing to help me anyway possible i when i was having problems.
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Old 05-28-2011, 11:30 AM   #6
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He's my tuner for life. Car is perfect. He made my trip there knowledgeable and I enjoyed every minute if it. I few people checked the car out when i got it home and bragged on how well she's dialed in
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Old 05-29-2011, 12:58 AM   #7
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Nice my cam only 02Z did the same numbers with a larger cam.
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Old 05-29-2011, 06:13 AM   #8
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Everyone says their dyno is stingy, just fyi. Do you have a graph to post up?
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Old 05-29-2011, 07:07 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theevette View Post
Well I will start off with a few things my tuner informed me. First off he says his dyno is a stingy one so he compared it to some cars he has put on the dyno in the past. He told me my 02 z06 puts out basically the same numbers at 350 rwhp bone stock. He also showed me that my car put out 15 rwhp all across the board and carried it
to 7k rather then 6500 rpm that a stock ls7 z06 puts out stock so this should give an idea on what his dyno reads. My car did 447 rwhp and 399 tq. The car didn't peak and we twisted it to 7k and didn't feel the need run the car any harder because we felt the tune was there. The intake work cam and heads seem to put out like they were intended. These runs were done around 70-75 degrees with misty rain and on the outer skirts of the appalacian mountains

Mods are

Fast 90 ported by Mamo
Eps 600 603. 230 238 on 112
AI 243 with hollows and beehives
Ati underdrive
Katech chain and pump
Ls2 tb
Ls7 lifters
Fic 36lbs injectors running at 80 duty
Haltech bridge mod done to accept a blackwing
Nice setup, but fyi your engine did peak.
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Old 05-29-2011, 10:41 AM   #10
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Those are decent #'s through a Vette drivetrain.
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Old 05-29-2011, 11:43 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theevette View Post
Well I will start off with a few things my tuner informed me. First off he says his dyno is a stingy one so he compared it to some cars he has put on the dyno in the past. He told me my 02 z06 puts out basically the same numbers at 350 rwhp bone stock. He also showed me that my car put out 15 rwhp all across the board and carried it
to 7k rather then 6500 rpm that a stock ls7 z06 puts out stock so this should give an idea on what his dyno reads. My car did 447 rwhp and 399 tq. The car didn't peak and we twisted it to 7k and didn't feel the need run the car any harder because we felt the tune was there. The intake work cam and heads seem to put out like they were intended. These runs were done around 70-75 degrees with misty rain and on the outer skirts of the appalacian mountains

Mods are

Fast 90 ported by Mamo
Eps 600 603. 230 238 on 112
AI 243 with hollows and beehives
Ati underdrive
Katech chain and pump
Ls2 tb
Ls7 lifters
Fic 36lbs injectors running at 80 duty
Haltech bridge mod done to accept a blackwing
Great to see the car is up and running! I presume those are SAE corrected #'s? With a cam of that size and aggressiveness I'd have anticipated 455-470 with your setup. Our CNC'd 241's typically make #'s in the 440-460 range w/ cams of that size and aggressiveness. Perhaps there are setup/drive train variables bending the curve downward. I am unfamiliar w/ the c5zo6 rear section, possible gains to be had when you get the cutouts in.

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Originally Posted by theevette View Post
I want times , I thought it would do between 460-470 on a good day. This is the first car I ever strapped down. I chose those numbers as a goal because I assumed that is what it would take to get those times. Paper is nothing to me. If it's a runner I'm good. Car also has 120k on it
I agree, many lose sight of the fact that actual performance insofar as how the car runs as a whole is the ultimate goal. However, it is worth checking out a few things if you have not done so yet.

1. Ensure the engine isn't ingesting oil via the inlet/pcv system.
2. I'd leak it down to ascertain the relative health of each cylinder.
3. Our head is designed to work with the factory FAST manifold. You cannot port a manifold properly without having the heads in hand. This is certainly no slight against Tony, but porting manifolds is more mockup and common sense than magic. If you didn't mock up the base on the heads, you very well may have issues with a ported manifold hurting power.
4. Cam selection can certainly be improved, but mainly durability and top-end power. You certainly have "enough" cam to make 460+.
5. Smoothing the OEM TB may be worth a few #'s if it is untouched.

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Originally Posted by Billy1987 View Post
Phils dyno is kind of a heart breaker but im like you its all about the times. Get it to the track and see what it does.Phil is a great tuner and a good guy. He was willing to help me anyway possible i when i was having problems.
Phil/Bluecat does seem to do a great job. We have a good many mutual customers, and all that I am aware of mention his thoroughness and commitment to getting things as "right" as they can be. He seems to be less a dyno racer than many out there, and that is a positive thing in many ways.

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Everyone says their dyno is stingy, just fyi. Do you have a graph to post up?
So true. Everyone's dyno or flow bench is purported to be stingy/tight/low, and every other instrument on the planet is happy/loose/high. I believe it is less an excuse and more an act of diplomacy. There are so many out there willing to inflate #'s to dupe the average guy that it is tough to point that out publically. The dynojet's are typically very consistent as they are a relatively simple machine. However, you have guys putting out #'s from different brand machines, in different conditions, and with varying test parameters these days without qualifying those differences. One of the trends we've noticed over the past decade or so is a gravitation toward dynos many simply assume to put out lower #'s than the DJ. Buy that type dyno, setup the test such that the #'s are roughly equivalent or higher than the average DJ, and then allow the internet gurus to explain to the masses that they need to add X% for "DJ equivalent" output. The #'s then garner exceptional attention, and the shop retains plausible deniability as the people are ultimately misleading themselves.


In any case, it sounds like you're at a good starting point and I would not be discouraged. With some probing and adjustment there is little doubt the setup could be improved. Still, if Bluecat has it driving well, it is managing acceptable power, and you're happy, then you can always leave it be until you are back in it for preventive maintenance/checkup. Good luck at the track!

-Phil
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Old 05-29-2011, 02:54 PM   #12
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Nice setup and nicer numbers IMO. Take it to the track!
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Old 05-30-2011, 01:02 AM   #13
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I am very happy. I put 300 miles on it stop and go and it's perfect. The car is wicked. Phil is on a dyno jet that is in the floor. He said I can take it to the dyno up the road and he says it does 10 percent more. He seems to think it is running like it should for the mods. He told me my cut outs may help and need to get a vararam would be a big improvement over my current intake. He was also a big fan if the ai heads. He claimed on his dyno only one stock cubed NA ls1 made more power at 455. Car is a handful to drive. I have no doubt it's a low 11 maybe high ten car on good day when I get it to hook right. I also got in the car next day with some good whether and it felt much stronger then the day I got it dynoed. I think the air filter could have been half saturated do to me cleaning engine day before and driving up in rain. He did say the maf acted weird and I could use a o2 change. They have 120k on them. Changing everything next week. I ran out of time do to my tune appointment
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Old 05-31-2011, 10:41 AM   #14
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3. Our head is designed to work with the factory FAST manifold. You cannot port a manifold properly without having the heads in hand. This is certainly no slight against Tony, but porting manifolds is more mockup and common sense than magic. If you didn't mock up the base on the heads, you very well may have issues with a ported manifold hurting power.
FAST 90 or FAST 102? So you are saying that if we enlarge the runner exits at all on the FAST intake it wont match up to your 243 heads?
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Old 05-31-2011, 07:05 PM   #15
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nice, good numbers
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Old 05-31-2011, 09:46 PM   #16
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I'd love to see a graph, I'm curious more of the shape of the torque curve than the empirical numbers. Sounds like a great running car though.
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Old 05-31-2011, 10:45 PM   #17
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I will be more then glad to Post it. I have it in my email and a copy of it. Please pm me some instruction and I'll do it
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Old 06-02-2011, 03:43 PM   #18
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phil is a good guy! he tuned my 02z with ECS n/a cam, long tubes and cai last year. Made 428/365 (sae and i heard ahead of time is dyno read alittle low) on his dyno. Would love to take it to another dyno just to see how it would compare to his. Car runs strong esp in the top end. Congrats man


i have really been looking at the AI heads along with TEA's stage 2 heads for my car.

Last edited by QUIKSILVERZ; 06-02-2011 at 03:57 PM.
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Old 06-07-2011, 09:29 AM   #19
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I ran out of time do to my tune appointment
Seems that always happens when you're dealing with a guy who really wants to see a setup run to potential. There are almost invariably a handful of details that could be improved.

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FAST 90 or FAST 102? So you are saying that if we enlarge the runner exits at all on the FAST intake it wont match up to your 243 heads?
Jimmy, I am suggesting that you are putting yourself in a precarious position ANY time you attempt to modify a manifold without physically having the heads in hand. While you can modify the manifold such that it at least works with the factory cast port, you still have to contend with the fact that the port core locations float around. Hope that makes sense!

-Phil
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