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5.3L Truck Motor Cam-only

 
Old 03-20-2013, 04:50 PM
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The intake and heads are different for the LS1 vs the LS2. I assume you would have specified if any of that was aftermarket or changed. The LS1 actually looks to be peaking sooner. Most likely due to the more restrictive heads and intake. I think this would be more exaggerated by larger cams as in this case where the intake and head combos are the restricting factor in the upper RPM ranges.
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Old 03-20-2013, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by speedtigger View Post
The intake and heads are different for the LS1 vs the LS2. I assume you would have specified if any of that was aftermarket or changed. The LS1 actually looks to be peaking sooner. Most likely due to the more restrictive heads and intake. I think this would be more exaggerated by larger cams as in this case where the intake and head combos are the restricting factor in the upper RPM ranges.
I said in my post that there is a 10cc difference in the intake runner between the two. That is it. That is no where near enough difference to cause a change in peak power RPM.

The LS1/LS6/LS2/LS3/L76/L99 ALL have the same runner length meaning that if you swapped them all around on different engines with the same variables and the only difference being the intake and could make the different cathedral versus square ports fit, that they would all peak at the same RPM because the runner length hasn't changed. I've measured them all. The only different runner length plastic OEM intake is a LS7 intake. The intakes are the same, no difference between a LS6 intake and a LS2 intake other than a throttle body which will not change peak power. Bolt ons like throttle bodies, headers and exhaust will not change peak power rpm.

I also said in my post that the LS1 was peaking sooner, are you reading my posts backwards?
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Old 03-20-2013, 05:45 PM
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So you don't think that intake runner and cylinder head intake port cross sectional area have any effect on the power curve?
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Old 03-20-2013, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by speedtigger View Post
So you don't think that intake runner and cylinder head intake port cross sectional area have any effect on the power curve?
Yes they have a lot to do with the power curve, I've been saying that this entire thread! But 10cc of average port volume will not change the power curve. This is at least what I have found through my data. 20-30cc will start to have an effect, but not 10cc.

Besides if you missed what I said, the LS2 and LS6 intake are the same runner length, the same runner dimensions and same plenum volume. I have measured them all myself. Every single plastic intake available for a LS engine I have measured. I have also measured the various single plane intakes aside from the All Pro single plane. I've also got dimensions on the Pro-Flo from Edelbrock. Haven't measured a Hi-ram though.

The only difference between that blue line and red line is 3.898" bore vs. 4.0" bore, 10cc in average port volume and 2 degree later EVC event on the LS2 engine.
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Old 03-20-2013, 06:11 PM
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While each of those intakes may have the same volume, I think I have seen test before that show they flow differently. Same with the heads. Along with that 10cc difference is how much flow difference? 15-20 cfm? That has to have an effect on where peak power occurs.

I will says though, as I have several times, I think the LS long runner intakes homogenize the results. I think the variation on an LS engine with good flowing heads and an open plenum intake will show a much greater variation in power curves as the displacement changes. For most people on this site, this will surely validate your claims that the displacement is not that crucial in relation to the power curve, but us carb guys may see different characteristics.
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Old 03-21-2013, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by speedtigger View Post
While each of those intakes may have the same volume, I think I have seen test before that show they flow differently. Same with the heads. Along with that 10cc difference is how much flow difference? 15-20 cfm? That has to have an effect on where peak power occurs.

I will says though, as I have several times, I think the LS long runner intakes homogenize the results. I think the variation on an LS engine with good flowing heads and an open plenum intake will show a much greater variation in power curves as the displacement changes. For most people on this site, this will surely validate your claims that the displacement is not that crucial in relation to the power curve, but us carb guys may see different characteristics.
I've never put a set of 241's on a flow bench nor have I put a set of 243's on the flow bench so I could not tell you first hand information regarding that. What I have been told second hand though from a non Superflow flow bench is the 243 head flows around 10-15cfm more. The amount of CFM that a head flows also does not influence the RPM power peaks at like cross sectional area does.

Now, increased or decreased head flow does coincide with cross sectional area and how small or large that port is and the size of the intake/exhaust valve. Cross sectional area of the cylinder heads intake and exhaust runners, intake valve size and runner/port length are the main factors that will determine where an engine peaks in regards to RPM , along with stroke and rod length of the particular engine.

I'm not saying that displacement isn't crucial in relation to the power curve. It is extremely crucial to where power will peak. What I'm saying is that what makes up that displacement and how you arrive at that displacement is what is crucial. For a given rod and stroke length, bore does not have the influence that you would think on where power peaks in regards to RPM. It will add or subtract power, it will add or subtract vacuum and it will add or subtract drivability, but the affect on peak power RPM is negligible. Maybe if you went from something ridiculous like a 2.0" bore with a 4.0" stroke and 6.0" rod to a 4.0" bore with a 4.0" stroke and a 6.0" rod would show a discernible difference.

The only reason I posted that Polluter V.2 112lsa VS. Polluter V.2 111LSA was to show you that even with the same cam and same valve events aside from exhaust events(2.0 degree difference) that a 3.898" bore 346 cubic inch engine actually peaked earlier than a larger 4.0" bore 364 cubic inch engine with the same cam.

I think I've passed along some great information in this thread so I'll leave it at that.
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Old 03-21-2013, 09:04 AM
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Very good discussion for sure. Thanx for sharing the real world testing.
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Old 03-21-2013, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by speedtigger View Post
Very good discussion for sure. Thanx for sharing the real world testing.
As always I enjoy our discussions as you are always respectful and considerate. Although I do not agree with everything you say sometimes I will admit!!!

I'm sure the feeling is mutual.
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:17 AM
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I would think these numbers are quite a bit higher as it's in a vette with the vette drivetrain.
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Old 03-22-2013, 10:46 AM
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Those dyno numbers just about confirms what I figured my car was putting down for power. 80k mile 5.3L with an MS3 cam, LS6 intake, 1 7/8 dynatech headers and 3" exhaust with a TH350. On motor my best was an 11.40 @ 118 and most calculators put it around 400 flywheel HP or 340-360RWHP range after drive train loss. 3125lb car.

Originally Posted by 06X6spdGTO View Post
I always thought it would be interesting to see a budget 5.3L build on a 200shot...

My car with the above engine and 200 shot.
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Old 03-22-2013, 04:08 PM
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Very nice!!!!! Looks like there is even more left in it with some power brought in sooner!
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Old 03-24-2013, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Very nice!!!!! Looks like there is even more left in it with some power brought in sooner!
That was leaving on all 200 but it was pushing through the converter. It went a 9.85 the pass after that with a 1.36 60ft.
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by MustangLS View Post
That was leaving on all 200 but it was pushing through the converter. It went a 9.85 the pass after that with a 1.36 60ft.
Very impressive! Put more dope to it!
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Old 03-25-2013, 02:06 PM
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I was going to do a second stage but I hurt it a couple weeks later after a nasty lean spike on launch. So now the car is down for a cage and putting a PT88 in there to feed it.
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:01 PM
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Need a cam for that nasty motor?
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Old 03-25-2013, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
. Which LS6 cam? 204 intake duration or the 207 intake duration? Everything the same on both engines? Or did you do a cam swap from the stock LS6 cam to the 223/228 106/106 cam?

Sorry, been slammed at work and working on the new house.

02 ls6 cam



Curious what your finding are when it is the same inches, 346 to 347 but a rod change from 3.098 to 3.125. What happens with the longer rod (.027") yet same top end(intake/heads/cam..
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Old 03-26-2013, 04:39 PM
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^That would be a good one! I'll let the forum know when it happens for sure!
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
As always I enjoy our discussions as you are always respectful and considerate. Although I do not agree with everything you say sometimes I will admit!!!

I'm sure the feeling is mutual.
I enjoy any of your discussions even though I get lost around half way.

Always have really great information to share with us.
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:54 AM
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Thanks guys!
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Old 03-27-2013, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Need a cam for that nasty motor?
I'll be changing cams before I fire up the new set up but it's going to be a few months. Paint and chassis work is getting done first.
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