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Darth Vader 454 Project....LIVES AGAIN!!

 
Old 08-08-2017, 07:14 PM
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That's a monster. Absolute monster.



Damn rounding
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Old 08-08-2017, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by eaglegoat View Post
That's a monster. Absolute monster.



Damn rounding
Eagle....you were really close. Your numbers were just about spot on as well and it seems you put some real thought in it based on the questions you asked.

Reach out to me via PM or email if your interested in any of my products....I will work something out to your liking I assure you



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Old 08-09-2017, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by NAVYBLUE210 View Post
7200 RPM With a 4.125" Stroke has the same piston speed
As 8200+ RPM with Hammers or my engine.
But it would still be less piston speed than a factory Ford Mustang engine. With good rods and machining, I wouldn't be afraid to turn it to 7500RPM.
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Old 08-09-2017, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by KCS View Post
But it would still be less piston speed than a factory Ford Mustang engine. With good rods and machining, I wouldn't be afraid to turn it to 7500RPM.
Understood, 7500 would probably be a Hard Redline.
That's like 8600+ for a 3.6.." Stroke!

The Mustang Engine Pistons I would bet are considerably
Smaller & Lighter VS Forged 4.185".
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Old 08-09-2017, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by NAVYBLUE210 View Post
Understood, 7500 would probably be a Hard Redline.
That's like 8600+ for a 3.6.." Stroke!

The Mustang Engine Pistons I would bet are considerably
Smaller & Lighter VS Forged 4.185".
As are the rods and rod bolts.
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Old 08-09-2017, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by KCS View Post
As are the rods and rod bolts.
My point exactly
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Old 08-09-2017, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Tony Mamo View Post
Eagle....you were really close. Your numbers were just about spot on as well and it seems you put some real thought in it based on the questions you asked.

Reach out to me via PM or email if your interested in any of my products....I will work something out to your liking I assure you



-Tony
Tony I was spot on for TQ, and only 2 away on H.P.
My brother is an Engine Builder
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Old 08-10-2017, 02:04 AM
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Originally Posted by NHRAFORMULA00 View Post
Tony I was spot on for TQ, and only 2 away on H.P.
My brother is an Engine Builder
I know....I shot you a congrats about that a few posts ago when I announced the results!!

Great job.....reach out to me when you get a chance and I can get your info, address, etc. to send you some MMS schwag and then we can discuss whatever you might be interesting in purchasing as well....that's your option obviously.

Originally Posted by KCS View Post
But it would still be less piston speed than a factory Ford Mustang engine. With good rods and machining, I wouldn't be afraid to turn it to 7500RPM.
While I'm confident this engine would hold together just fine at 7500 it was never it's intended target.....not to mention we are talking apples and oranges. Close to polar opposites in fact....comparing the two is like a chimpanzee being thrown in a gorilla cage (while the Coyote engine is spectacular in its own right will only produce a fraction of the power and torque we are discussing in this thread).

Who cares about really high RPM when looking at an engine like this built for the street and what it delivers (keeping in mind lower RPM is always less maintenance). This engine was designed to build boat loads of massive torque and horsepower at modest RPM's and it does exactly that. I have built alot of really good normally aspirated street/strip LS engines (some of which have been chronicled in detail on this very forum), and this engine will make all of them want to phone in sick.

It clears 700 HP at 5600 RPM....in a car with a light clutch and a reasonably efficient driveline that's close to 620 at the wheels (at 5600 RPM!!). My C5 in various configurations typically made 80 less HP at the tire than the exact same engine dyno this motor was tested on. My 383 made 615 HP on this dyno (535 RWHP ish in the vehicle) and trapped 130 or so in a 3400 lb car in crappy So Cal air. Comparing these two power curves would be ridiculous (and fun!). 523 peak torque compared to 655 BUT.....the area under the curve would be retarded. I bet the 454 clears the 383 by 160 ft/lbs or more at various spots in the curve and let me tell you that 383 was a handful in my Vette to drive...it was very fast and spun the tires at will in the lower gears.

Yes....its expensive to duplicate but there is no denying the appeal of this type of power in a normally aspirated package. It would be sooo much more explosive and fun to drive compared to a boosted combo that even made a little more power. This engine has thrust available immediately....no blowers or turbos to spool.

I will be building a similar engine for my personal C6Z within the next 12 months. Trying to find ways to clear this power level and not have a larger cam is going to be a challenge but I have time to think about it and have some ideas already.

That's it for now....hoping I get a chance to experience this in the 4th Gen Fbody it's being installed in....when and if I do you can bet I will update this thread with my thoughts on the power delivery. Hopefully there is some seriously sticky rubber on this car or it will be downright dangerous with all the instantaneous huge torque on tap....NA engines making this kind of power and torque are just explosive....very different than boosted stuff.



Cheers,
Tony
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Last edited by Tony @ Mamo Motorsports; 08-10-2017 at 04:15 AM.
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Old 08-10-2017, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by NAVYBLUE210 View Post
My point exactly
Which is what exactly? Mine is that small flimsy rods and thin rod bolts can't handle the tensile loads that a forged steel rod with 7/16" bolts could. So even though the Ford pistons are lighter than a forged 4.1xx" piston, which you pointed out, the rods and bolts are significantly weaker. When you go to a quality steel rod with large ARP rod bolts, the increased tensile loads from more piston speed and a heavier piston are nothing to be scared of.

Originally Posted by Tony Mamo View Post
While I'm confident this engine would hold together just fine at 7500 it was never it's intended target.....not to mention we are talking apples and oranges. Close to polar opposites in fact....comparing the two is like a chimpanzee being thrown in a gorilla cage (while the Coyote engine is spectacular in its own right will only produce a fraction of the power and torque we are discussing in this thread).

Who cares about really high RPM when looking at an engine like this built for the street and what it delivers (keeping in mind lower RPM is always less maintenance). This engine was designed to build boat loads of massive torque and horsepower at modest RPM's and it does exactly that. I have built alot of really good normally aspirated street/strip LS engines (some of which have been chronicled in detail on this very forum), and this engine will make all of them want to phone in sick.
We're just BS'ing about untapped potential. It's a stellar build, no doubt, but it would need to turn more RPM to get the most out of it at the track in its current configuration. I only reference the 5.2L Ford engine because of the average piston speed of that factory warrantied engine is higher than the average piston speed of what this engine would see at the RPM we were discussing. Relatively speaking, 5000FPM is still not that high for a performance engine so I would agree, this combo can turn higher without breaking a sweat. The only issue I'd want to address is windage.
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Old 08-10-2017, 09:19 PM
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What an awesome build Tony. Love your setups and style for the street. We may have to build me a track version eventually here. After I finish my street Mamo 383 of course lol. I'm gunning for your 383 that was in your vette I haven't seen any 383s do better than that. Hats off to you buddy. Amazing build.
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Old 08-10-2017, 09:26 PM
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Dang it I missed by 3 hp! Congrats man, it's a true beast. Does the customer post on this board?
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Old 08-10-2017, 09:40 PM
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Some guy posted up he was putting a 454 in his Fourth gen like right after tony posted the dyno results. I asked if he was the guy who bought it cause I was gonna congratulate him, and he deleted the thread. It was a name I did not recognize.
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Old 08-10-2017, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Darth_V8r
Some guy posted up he was putting a 454 in his Fourth gen like right after tony posted the dyno results. I asked if he was the guy who bought it cause I was gonna congratulate him, and he deleted the thread. It was a name I did not recognize.
That's weird. Is the proud new owner a member on here?
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Old 08-10-2017, 11:47 PM
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I'd be all over a copy of this engine if I had the spare cash laying around. I've always loved the 454.
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Old 08-11-2017, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by 98_WS6_M6 View Post
That's weird. Is the proud new owner a member on here?
https://ls1tech.com/forums/chevrolet...s-fab-9-a.html
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Old 08-12-2017, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Darth_V8r
Some guy posted up he was putting a 454 in his Fourth gen like right after tony posted the dyno results. I asked if he was the guy who bought it cause I was gonna congratulate him, and he deleted the thread. It was a name I did not recognize.
My bad. I lost the thread. Thought it was in gen4 internal
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Old 08-12-2017, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by KCS View Post
But it would still be less piston speed than a factory Ford Mustang engine. With good rods and machining, I wouldn't be afraid to turn it to 7500RPM.
7500 is no big deal. And 4.6's and coyotes don't have a stupid long stroke. The 5.4's do though. Gt500 guys have to be careful how high they rev those things
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Old 08-13-2017, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Darth_V8r View Post
My bad. I lost the thread. Thought it was in gen4 internal
Darth,
It WAS in Gen IV Internal, and for some unknown reason the
OP moved it to a much lesser trafficked section.
Never mentioned his builder by name, pretty odd considering
He has one of the most incredible 454" street Engines I have
Ever seen on tech.
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Old 08-13-2017, 11:33 PM
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Proof is always in the pudding and Mamo knows how to make use of great skills and choosing awesome products to lessen friction, nice choice on Low Tension pistons, curious how thin those rings are, as well as how spot-on the Valve springs are in the setup, were they developed on a spintron? Very nicely done!! Flat Torque and Good Performance all the way through!!!
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Old 08-15-2017, 07:50 PM
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Awesome numbers Tony, congrats!!!

I'm not going to tear my motor apart but I would love to try those 255 cathedral port heads with my setup.
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