HioCrew LBO LS1 hits the rollers: 371rwhp stock cam and heads. 398WHP update
 

Local shop had a open dyno day, figured itd be a good time to make some pulls and see what the old girl makes, a few details about muh cah!

99 LS1, SE 1 7/8 LTs, SE TDs, ATI 10% UD pully, Fast92/92 from the legendary BigHammer, SLP Lid with a WIX filter and a SD tune from the streets by yours truly, With some help from Darth_V8r. Car has 4.10s, T56, 3500 race weight with driver and traps 115.6mph. Looking forward to breaking into the 11s as it sits.

Pulls where done on a dynojet and another Tech member ran his bone stock 99 M6 WS6 witth 70k miles and made a honest 295 HP..spot on for a early stick shift LS1 car. My first pull had a 14% CF, so the dyno was restarted, second pull had no correction factor and made a legit 371whp...the stock WS6 made its pulls 15 minutes after mine. AND NO, your LS6 intake and pace setter Y pipe cant do that!



https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...78ed7e2efa.jpg

Nice work OP these cars are still impressive for the few mods and results.

That thang made good powers!

Impressive work from an LBO setup!

Newbie question time- LBO?

Low Bolt On as opposed to FBO or full bolt on

You could push that up to 400+ yet too

Nice results OP! Lots left to do too!

Ah! Thank you! And now that I know that, I'm even more impressed! NICE job!

Beard power!

At what could be the lowest reading dyno in the city, stock 2004 z06 dynod there at 371 rwhp. That's the 405 hp model that z06 guys say is more like 410-415 hp at the crank

JayP's stock ws6 dyno'd 295 there so it should be around bang on

I though HioCrew only used happy dynos...

May all the hiocrew dynos be happy!

We make dynos happy?

May all the dyno'd hiocrew be happy!

:burn:

Great numbers man! You must of read my mind on your build. I just picked up a low mile stock 02 SS M6 and thats exactly what Im planning for it too. I do however want to send my stock heads to AI.

Yup I'd say the speedfactor dyno is pretty accurate. It was Lingenfelters dyno at one point.

I look forward to seeing some track times out of these cars.

12.19 at 114.2 mph is my best so far on a 1.82 60', had a helluva head wind at the track(20-30mph) that probably costed me 2mph. Ive been faster in the 1/4 at 115.6 MPH and have had a better 60' with a 1.76...still working on my foot work and had a brand new set of ET street bias that where sticking quite well. Will see what next year brings.


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...e0b2e80f41.jpg

Hard to get past babying the 10 bolt.

That nbm looks good with those dark stars!

Nice job. I have a ten bolt girdle if you need one...

What he said!

Remove all seats, add kirkey driver seat, hello 11's. For the sake of "staying stock", it'd be interesting to see what a set of 241 heads and 98 cam would do for you

He has the "98" cam already just no 241's which doesn't really matter

Already have a LPW one MM, thanks

Im quite curtain shell run an 11 as it sits, just need to work on my foot work and run on a calm day.

I'd agree

Lol at 30mph headwind

screan cap from a text I sent by buddy the day before.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...fa7b47606c.png

How much does the camaro weigh dressed on the dark stars?

3225ish, last time it was 3254 with the OE zr1 wheels and drag radials, the race stars and ET streets should be 10lbs lighter per wheel and i swiss cheesed my front bumper rebar which should be good for 10lbs or a bit more, im 250 but looking to get a bit closer to 200 over the winter.

It also didn't help that, despite people getting to the track by the 9:30 am start time, they waited until 11:30 am before letting cars go down the track. By then the sun came out and the wind was worse.....I waited all year for that day of redemption and the officials just threw away cool conditions with minimal wind.
So does that mean in spring when the weather is cool, they will also wait till noon again until the track "heats up?"
Highly disappointed in the track this year. Good thing I didn't show up with any nitrous as it would have been pointless.
I dead hooked last year every single time on used 255/50/16 et streets (not sure if SS). This year (same size 255/50/16 et street but bought this year new, SS style) I didn't get one clean footbrake stalled pass despite not making much more power than last year.
1.65 60 ft last year with a 3000 stall 9.5" fti
1.66 60 ft this year with a 3800 stall 9.5" fti.
Brutal...hopefully things change.

Track sucked this year. They were trying to make it better but accomplished the opposite.

Every time I've been there they just seem to putter around and open the lanes around 11.

Is that all you have done as far as weight reduction was the Swiss cheese mod ? Do the car have a aftermarket K member, A arms etc?

hoping baseline delivers next year, just wish it was 1/4 mile

Stock K member and A arms, Tubular torque arm and lower control arms and PH bar. Usual suspects for weight reduction...spare tire and jack, light weight battery, drag pack and hole sawed the front bumper rebar


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...774879177c.jpg

How many pounds do the Swiss cheese mod knock off ?
Do the car still have heat and air?
Cloth car or leather car ?

You can typically get 8-10lb out of each of the bumper supports depending on how much cheese you want.

The difference in weight between a cloth vs leather seat is minimal. About 6lb total for the entire set on a camaro. I've weighed cloth vs leather. Power seat is about 6lb difference vs none power.

Hio-I just find it amazing that the car weigh 32XX with the factory SS hood, stock K member and A arms. Hell I thought Z28 cars tend to be lighter than SS cars. Well anyway that's a badass mod (Swiss chesse) and I would love to see a write up on how to do it.

Heat and air, leather seats...all of them. Full interior..its a street car not a tin can.

This was race weight with 1/8 tank, drag fronts and 17" ZR1 and 275 drag radials with out driver. Ill weight my new rears but the old set up was 45lbs each. Full TD exhaust front to back, AIR and EGR deleted

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...a7a9a5279e.jpg

Weight looks spot on. Mine weighed 3240 with your same setup and lack of weight reduction.

Is it easy to swap to a manual seat from a power seat? It is hard to find a manual set one at the yards

It would be dirt simple if you had the maual tracks mm



Hell they can go into the 31xx range with stock k, control arms, hood, full interior, full hvac system ect.

Just gotta pay attention to what your doin, choose parts wisely and don't weigh it down with sub frame connectors, iron blocks, engine covers, strut tower braces, heavier than stock wheels and strut tower braces.

I want to thank you and theecamarokid for the responses on the weight. Very useful information for sure. Speaking of iron block I just ditched a LQ block for a LS2 block in 6 speed Z28. I can certainly feel the difference. Car even feels more responsive with the same heads, cam and intake.

Sure man....sorry to mention strut tower brace twice ....lol. I got carried away there.

Last time i had my car on the scales it was 3074lb on the stock ss wheels. That was with no hood tho. Full hvac, full stereo, cruise, full interior, 9", both sway bars, lightened stock k/a arms. There is weight everywhere on these cars. Just gotta look for it and sometimes work for it a little.

Things like a clutch can save significant weight. My clutch is 41lb lighter than the ls7 clutch everyone thorows in these thing. Battery can save 35lb....or you can move it to the back and add weight. Which is not necessarily a bad plan. Cat back can save 20+lb over the stock stuff not to mention the full system that can lead to more weight savings. Right there is about 100lb alot of people pay no mind to at all.

Good job Jay!

So even with a big guy like me at 250 pounds... it sounds fairly easy to get a camaro to weigh 34XX with the driver. That's awesome.

That's light! My formula, gutted of all removable items (removed all interior and creature comforts, catback, lightweight battery, 17x4's up front and 16x8's out back) weighed 3002. All that netted a 348# reduction. Guess I need to learn a few things still :hail:

I’m actually going to do this MM. I have the seat bracket. Got it used from Hawks and painted it. Looks like a simple swap really.

Hmmm. I have a 98 WS6, t top car. Still had hvac but no ac, stock front bumper support, stock ws6 hood, tubular k member and a arms, manual trans with 30# clutch, lightest 9” I could have made with dual caliper drag brakes, drag pack with radials front and back, true dual exhaust, lightweight battery, full interior, full stereo with one subwoofer in back and weighed 3047. I’ve done a few mods since so it will be lighter now. It’s crazy to me how much these cars differ in weight but definitely with the right touches they can be very light. It seems the Camaros are even lighter, especially the hard top cars like Mike and Hio have

How many pounds gets loss ditching the power seat for a maneal seat ?

HioSS mentioned 6 lbs.
Man, you guys are making my foxbody feel heavy haha. I'd give it a diet too but we have mobile police inspection units that make sure you have factory impact beams in the front and back

I have a hard top formula, which is supposed to be the lightest F of them all. I have always questioned that though, as the headlights and wing on the formula are heavier than camaro parts. I can only assume people mean in stock form the camaro is heavier. It will be interesting to see what mine weighs this time out with a very small converter and headers instead of manifolds. Then next will be putting on my gutted doors with lexan, coilovers, and tubular A arms, hope to get it to 2800# without cutting anything.

Now I see that. Good looking out. I love the fact that a fourth gen can weigh alot less with some work here and there. It'll put a fourth gen in third gen camaro weight territory.

Wow, really? Where do you live?

My 87 TPI 305 formula was around 3380 stock. Overall they weren't that light. GTA's were closer to 3600 IIRC.

I never owned a third gen myself but I see guys on here and else where saying a third gen is lighter than fourth gen cars....

They can be. Ls swap helps a lot. 3rd Gen engines are all iron

My termi swapped notch weighs 3060 on quarry scales with bumper supports and that heavy ass termi motor. It has full hvac with ac , full interior, jack/spare, stereo in it. It does have full tube suspension.

With a aluminum na ls motor in it you coukd drop 300ish lbs off that and still have everything in it.

From working on them both i would say the difference is minimal. The 4gen has some built in reinforments but also has fiberglass doors & decklid/ plastic fenders. The old iron sbc would have to be heavier in the 3rd gen but the interior is likely lighter than a 4gen with less sound deadening.

What fuel are you running?

shell 91 outta the pump

Easy peasy to hit. Mine is 3180 with a full tank of fuel and square 18x12s, and MWC subframe connectors (biggest piece of shit on the car though). AC and radio are gone but other than that it's a full interior car. All the bumper supports etc intact...

More curious if you have ever done any testing on LS6 intake vs FAST. Not relevant to most people but very much so for me. Really the only things I have left to do would be that, 241 heads, and the superseded L92 valve springs that are legal. At the point where 5-10 whp matters and is worth doing as long as it won't sacrifice anything down at 2500-3000rpm.

Yes i changed them on the dyno. I changed from a ported ls6 to a ported fast 90.


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...71515e9682.png

I've paid attention over the years to "some of these guys". There is a lot of weight to be found (and taken out)! I have removed 451# in my heavy ass T/A. She now sits at 3152 with new 8pt CM cage, S60, and iron 6.0... I know where #40 more is to remove, so should be ~3112 before any wallet reduction mods!

Nathans lq9/th350 swapped one was 3070. Full interior with heat no ac on a drag pack.

I took the extreme weight loss path and swapped the engine & transmission from a 2000 Z28 into a Miata.
Weight with all accessories and a full tank of gas is just a hair over 2600 lbs.

If HIo wrote a book on how to "put your F body on a diet" I'll make sure I'll get 3 copies. :playboy:

Nice job! Car moves out and def backs up the dyno numbers.

LOL Good stuff Tusky!
BTW I always enjoy your common sense answers!

:cheers:

I was 3064 lbs (1990 notchback mustang): th400, lq4, full interior, cd player and 4 speakers, power seats, dual x piped mild steel exhaust with flowmaster super 40 mufflers and tips to the bumper, exhaust manifolds, aje kmember, stock coil springs and a-arms, 16" pony wheels with 235s up front and 245s rear, stock heater still functional as well as the wipers. No AC. Stock 5.0 rad. Subframe connectors. Only weight removal was spare tire and jack.

Haven't weighed since then and that trucking scale I weighed at last is torn down now. I double checked it for accuracy before and it displayed my body weight accurately. My 91 ef hatchback cx civic weighed 1960 lbs there so I believe it's accurate enough.

hoping for better ETs next year

Do you plan on going heads and cam next year ?

nope, next major modification will be a 9", i have a few small things planned for next year aswell as some minor upgrades to the T56. I have a mild cam i got from a member but no imediate plans to use. Wanna see how far we can get into the 11s stock cam and heads. Also building a house next year so that will be tying up my time and money.

good mod. Gives you lots of gearing flexibility and no worries about the glass jaw breaking at launch

Yeah a better diff for an M6 is worth a lot of tenths

I bet you get there. You're already killing it considering the mods.

I had a 2000 SS full weight hard top. ZERO weight reduction besides the spare tire and jack being out of it. It also had an amp in it but the sub box was out of it at the time

Lid, LS6 intake, Hooker headers, Lanes true duals, Yank SS 3800, 3.73 rear gears 10 bolt. 1.68 60ft 12.303 PB

The PB came on 28" slicks, every other time I was out on 315/35r17 drag radials, I figured the extra height would hurt the 60 a tad, but it picked up everywhere. It also had grand sport replica wheels on the front. I was never a hard core strip guy so I don't remember the exact temp, mph, DA etc.

Congrats on the bad ass numbers, dyno and track.

Just watched your video and it looks good. I'm not sure how you're launching it/slipping the clutch but I have an idea that may help you launch hard and not pop the rear, if you haven't tried this yet. So preloading the rear is most important... maybe hold the clutch right to where it starts to engage and wants to barely push the car, engage the park brake one or two clicks to hold the car then rev it hard and snap off the clutch from that point. Doing that will keep the driveline from slamming together from no preload to hammer, and you could hold your hand on the e brake and as you drop the clutch drop the brake and reach over and grab second. I always figured that's the way I would do it if I had a 6 speed and a 10 bolt. I've thought of this a lot lol. Plus coming from lower down in the clutch throw up into the slip without full engagement would seem much harder than trying to let it just go an inch or so.

I do some of the things you mention, but use a line lock and a 2step i set up on HPT out of the hole. I ease up on the clutch just till I fell it start to feel it load up the drive line, the hard part is taming your excitment and left foot and try to roll off the clutch to prevent a bog but slip it fast enough to make a decent 60', looking into a clutch tamer for next year.

Try not to get double bulbed man. :usa:

I hear that. I've played with it a little on the street in other stick cars I've owned and the balance of slip of the clutch, the tires etc is a definite chore. That clutch tamer thing, that's a flow reducing valve right? Is there a way it only functions for first gear? The ones I've seen in the past were purely mechanical, haven't looked into them in years to see if they have on that can be electro-mechanical and switched on and off.

The tamer works everytime you push the clutch

Im looking at the pneumatic style clutch tamer from Weedburner, apparently he can also make it so it only slips on the initial clutch dump and not the up shifts

"NOTE- for those who may be skeptical of adding clutch slip after the shifts, there is a cheap/simple way to effectively enable the ClutchTamer only during launch- a drop-out spacer installed between the dash bracket and the delay knob."

I would be highly concerned about it engaging on upshifts, only because the higher the gear the harder it is on the clutch to hold it. If you ever had a clutch on its way out you'll notice it slips more in the higher gears when it first starts going and then all gears.

I feel that there's an electronic one out there that can be switched on and off but I didn't want to say that without knowing so I don't give bad info. Gonna look.

Here's a couple. There's probably other options, I saw a few pics with different brands and just picked these two.


http://magnusmotorsports.com/product...ontrol-device/

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hydraulic-C...-/112164256291

Nice.....i like those better

I'm sure those would be easier to dial in as compared to the manual tamer.

I agree the adjustable regulator is sweet and just like a brake proportioning valve. Some of the other ones I saw like clutch masters you have to pull out the jet and swap them to get the desired flow, and it's there for all gears also.

With these the solenoid lets you turn it on and off whenever or however.

Tamer is better

How come?

Because...

Send T56 to liberty for face platting and you only need the clutch to launch...problem solved

That does not solve the problem, launch is the most important.

The two hydraulic options posted seem complicated and messy. I like the tamer.

That's how i roll.:D

You run the tamer to solve the launch problem. No clutch needed for face plated shifting. I know Hio has been face plated for years with a button clutch. Ive run a button clutch before as well but no face plating. I wonder what setup is in the blue fastest GM 6 speed Camaro?

face plated T56, monster tripple and side step the clutch.

monster triple is big and heavy compared to a button. No need for that much holding power either. QM double and stock flex plate weighed 18# IIRC, rated for 600fwhp and they offer other disc materials to hold more power. You'd be amazed just how much easier it is to shift with just a light small clutch. Doesnt hit the tires as hard either. Just going to a 20 to 30 pound setup like the monster 8.5" or the spec mini twin (8" I believe) will be totally different. The QM I had was a 7.25" fwiw

How does a small hard hitting clutch, hit the tires less as compared to a heavier monster?

Much more energy stored in a heavy clutch and flywheel. So if you're just dumping the clutch it's actually putting more to the tire. It's a different experience than a "grabby" clutch

A light clutch soaks up less energy. So if you do break traction the rear tires and rpm will tend to fuck off on you faster as there's less holding the engine back

My one car with a spec mini twin shifts a lot easier near 8000 rpm than my basically stock car does at 6000 with a level 2 monster. These heavy clutches like to eat your trans guts