434ci, MMS 265 heads, Super Victor intake, MMS solid roller cam - dyno results
04-30-2018, 03:13 PM
#41
Thanx for Photobucket's disaster last year, most of them are hard to easily access. I moved pics to Imgur and you can look through the album. There are many exhaust fab pics somewhere about 1/3 to 1/2 down the page...
https://imgur.com/a/BHB9m
https://imgur.com/a/BHB9m
05-01-2018, 02:29 PM
#44
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I don't think "different' will even begin to describe it. Great build!
05-01-2018, 03:59 PM
#46
Thanx! It was already pretty strong at 580 rwhp / 500ft-lb of torque. I'm curious to see what the rwhp dyno runs look like with the new combination vs. the previous one (LS3 based before, LS7 based now). It had a pretty good combination in it already with the FRH ported heads/intake.
That said, as always, it's all in the tuning details. I have a progressive 4-barrel throttle body that is a bit tricky to get right. It's very sensitive on the highway in the ECU. I think I've done a pretty good job in the past of getting a base run in there, and LSX has done the dyno tuning and some additional street tuning...
I'm a stickler for keeping the carb-style intakes, although I know it could pick up in the lower and mid-ranges with a different setup. I'm not giving up my shaker unless I absolutely have to!
Speaking of, I'll be starting to make that fit again here soon. I've thrown away a lot of effort from the previous iteration, but I was going to have to anyway due to suspension (subframe) changes.
That said, as always, it's all in the tuning details. I have a progressive 4-barrel throttle body that is a bit tricky to get right. It's very sensitive on the highway in the ECU. I think I've done a pretty good job in the past of getting a base run in there, and LSX has done the dyno tuning and some additional street tuning...
I'm a stickler for keeping the carb-style intakes, although I know it could pick up in the lower and mid-ranges with a different setup. I'm not giving up my shaker unless I absolutely have to!
Speaking of, I'll be starting to make that fit again here soon. I've thrown away a lot of effort from the previous iteration, but I was going to have to anyway due to suspension (subframe) changes.
06-17-2019, 10:29 PM
#47
So... A year and a half later, I'm back to update this thread with a chassis dyno result. I should have done this before now, but life's just been a bit busy since I got her back on the road. I have done a good bit of tuning myself on the street, and I have a 2-day HPDE event at COTA under my belt, so I was curious how close I had her to being ready (spoiler alert: I was really close).
Now there are a few variables at play in this chassis dyno session as compared to the engine dyno session I did 18 months ago that should be listed as they will have an impact on the result. At the same time, some are interesting in that they are the same as my previous dyno runs on the last engine I had in the car. A quick bit of background... I've had this car on a chassis dyno twice before, but times at the same dyno and using the same tuner (LSX Power Tuning). I run a Holley HP EFI ECU with a single wide-band O2 sensor. The previous engine had effectively the same bottom end as this one with a set of Frankenstein ported TFS GenX LS3 heads, a Can Motion LLSR cam, and an Edelbrock Victor Jr LS3 intake with 4150 throttle body. You can search my username for past dyno charts/results, but the summary is that on a Dynocom chassis dyno she made 580/505 and 565/498. There was a rebuild of the engine in between those two and a change from wet sump to dry sump.
Fast forward to now and the engine discussed in this thread. Due to fitment issues, and a real stubbornness on my part, I had to give up on running the Edelbrock Super Victor LS7 intake that I had Tony port for me and which was used on the engine dyno. I really didn't want to, but it sits about an inch too high to fit my application. I had sold the Frankenstein ported Victor Jr. from the previous engine combination, but I reached out to my buyer, and he agreed to sell it back to me. So I purchased a set of CBM LS7 to LS3 intake adapters (nice pieces, btw) and used those to adapt my MMS LS7 heads to my Victor Jr. LS3 intake. I had no idea how this would work out, but I just don't have a choice (that I'm willing to accept).
Next up are my headers. In my application, there is very little space for headers. My subframe provider has a set of 1 3/4" primary mid-length headers which are made for this setup, so I am using those. They feed my true dual 3" exhaust (no X or H pipe) out the back of the car. Other than the headers, the exhaust is mostly unchanged from previous dyno runs. Note that I was running a set of stepped 1 3/4" -> 1 7/8" Tri-Y headers with my previous engine.
Finally, I did have to run today on a different dyno. LSX Power Tuning how has his own shop and dyno, his also being a Dynocom unit. It's one of their higher end setups, so a step up from the one we had used before. He says it generally results in almost identical (3-5 rwhp difference either way) from the dyno we used before, so I think it's a good comparison.
With all that said, let's get to the results... We did 25 pulls today and in addition a good amount of "street" type tuning (his dyno is an Eddy Current dyno which allows him to vary load to simulate road conditions), and the car held up like a champ. Good thing as she's got two days of HPDE at COTA coming up in the Texas heat this weekend! So here is one of the better plots:
I know it's hard to see the plot, unfortunately the lines are thin and don't scan well. The result from this run was 617/521. The best run of the day was 619/522, so this was right there. We stopped the runs at around 7000rpm all day, it was mostly just done by then.
A few things about these pulls. I ran them without my air filter setup. A few reasons, but we did reinstall it for one more pull after this one to see what it cost. We got 611/518, so it did not cost me as much as I expected it would. Additionally, we were pulling vacuum in the intake as reported by the HP EFI. When we first noticed that was when I originally removed the air filter. I didn't matter much... We were seeing around 96kPa above 5000rpm. I am 100% certain that with the better intake we would pick up an easy 10, perhaps 20rwhp. Especially when you note that these runs peaked around 6400-6500 all day while the engine dyno runs peaked higher. (I now know how all of those C5/C6 guys feel trying to feed the bigger CI engines with MSD or FAST manifolds!).
On top of that, we left the AFR a bit rich on this final tune. If we had shot for a 'hero' run we would have leaned it out at least another 2-4 tenths and broken 620 rwhp I am sure. But since I do 25-30 minute road course sessions in the Texas heat, there is no sense in pushing the tune just for a dyno number. We actually backed off the timing a bit (I can't remember if it was 1 or 2 degrees less than we tried on a couple of runs) for safety sake also.
Comparing these results to my previous results, I am really happy with the improvement! 617/521 vs. either 565 or 580 (depending on which you want to compare to) and 505 rw-torque is a nice improvement. Especially when you consider the sub-optimal intake choice. Yes I did step up the cam a bit also, but a 37 or 52 rwhp gain is a big deal, as is the 15 ft-lb of torque!
Here are a couple of pictures on the dyno and if I can get it to work, a video of a pull also. Audio is horrible, but oh well...
Now there are a few variables at play in this chassis dyno session as compared to the engine dyno session I did 18 months ago that should be listed as they will have an impact on the result. At the same time, some are interesting in that they are the same as my previous dyno runs on the last engine I had in the car. A quick bit of background... I've had this car on a chassis dyno twice before, but times at the same dyno and using the same tuner (LSX Power Tuning). I run a Holley HP EFI ECU with a single wide-band O2 sensor. The previous engine had effectively the same bottom end as this one with a set of Frankenstein ported TFS GenX LS3 heads, a Can Motion LLSR cam, and an Edelbrock Victor Jr LS3 intake with 4150 throttle body. You can search my username for past dyno charts/results, but the summary is that on a Dynocom chassis dyno she made 580/505 and 565/498. There was a rebuild of the engine in between those two and a change from wet sump to dry sump.
Fast forward to now and the engine discussed in this thread. Due to fitment issues, and a real stubbornness on my part, I had to give up on running the Edelbrock Super Victor LS7 intake that I had Tony port for me and which was used on the engine dyno. I really didn't want to, but it sits about an inch too high to fit my application. I had sold the Frankenstein ported Victor Jr. from the previous engine combination, but I reached out to my buyer, and he agreed to sell it back to me. So I purchased a set of CBM LS7 to LS3 intake adapters (nice pieces, btw) and used those to adapt my MMS LS7 heads to my Victor Jr. LS3 intake. I had no idea how this would work out, but I just don't have a choice (that I'm willing to accept).
Next up are my headers. In my application, there is very little space for headers. My subframe provider has a set of 1 3/4" primary mid-length headers which are made for this setup, so I am using those. They feed my true dual 3" exhaust (no X or H pipe) out the back of the car. Other than the headers, the exhaust is mostly unchanged from previous dyno runs. Note that I was running a set of stepped 1 3/4" -> 1 7/8" Tri-Y headers with my previous engine.
Finally, I did have to run today on a different dyno. LSX Power Tuning how has his own shop and dyno, his also being a Dynocom unit. It's one of their higher end setups, so a step up from the one we had used before. He says it generally results in almost identical (3-5 rwhp difference either way) from the dyno we used before, so I think it's a good comparison.
With all that said, let's get to the results... We did 25 pulls today and in addition a good amount of "street" type tuning (his dyno is an Eddy Current dyno which allows him to vary load to simulate road conditions), and the car held up like a champ. Good thing as she's got two days of HPDE at COTA coming up in the Texas heat this weekend! So here is one of the better plots:
I know it's hard to see the plot, unfortunately the lines are thin and don't scan well. The result from this run was 617/521. The best run of the day was 619/522, so this was right there. We stopped the runs at around 7000rpm all day, it was mostly just done by then.
A few things about these pulls. I ran them without my air filter setup. A few reasons, but we did reinstall it for one more pull after this one to see what it cost. We got 611/518, so it did not cost me as much as I expected it would. Additionally, we were pulling vacuum in the intake as reported by the HP EFI. When we first noticed that was when I originally removed the air filter. I didn't matter much... We were seeing around 96kPa above 5000rpm. I am 100% certain that with the better intake we would pick up an easy 10, perhaps 20rwhp. Especially when you note that these runs peaked around 6400-6500 all day while the engine dyno runs peaked higher. (I now know how all of those C5/C6 guys feel trying to feed the bigger CI engines with MSD or FAST manifolds!).
On top of that, we left the AFR a bit rich on this final tune. If we had shot for a 'hero' run we would have leaned it out at least another 2-4 tenths and broken 620 rwhp I am sure. But since I do 25-30 minute road course sessions in the Texas heat, there is no sense in pushing the tune just for a dyno number. We actually backed off the timing a bit (I can't remember if it was 1 or 2 degrees less than we tried on a couple of runs) for safety sake also.
Comparing these results to my previous results, I am really happy with the improvement! 617/521 vs. either 565 or 580 (depending on which you want to compare to) and 505 rw-torque is a nice improvement. Especially when you consider the sub-optimal intake choice. Yes I did step up the cam a bit also, but a 37 or 52 rwhp gain is a big deal, as is the 15 ft-lb of torque!
Here are a couple of pictures on the dyno and if I can get it to work, a video of a pull also. Audio is horrible, but oh well...
06-18-2019, 09:21 AM
#48
Congrats on the killer results.....especially considering the intake and header concessions you had to make to make this combination work in your chassis! I know I've been waiting a long time to see these results since our combos are so similar (same ci, same heads, single plane intake, similar cams). Your car has to be a blast to drive!
Do you recall what timing number produced the best power for you? I know you said you backed it off a few degrees from optimal but I'm curious what optimal was and where you're at now. Mine (with a single plane and carb) seems to like 27 so far at the track. But admittedly I haven't done enough testing yet to make that my final conclusion and haven't hit a chassis dyno.....mostly because the results through a TH400 with a loose converter would be less than impressive I assume.
Any plans to sell your LS7 Super Victor? I'm going to go FI at some point in the future with this combo so it would be a nice item to have already on hand if the price was right.
Do you recall what timing number produced the best power for you? I know you said you backed it off a few degrees from optimal but I'm curious what optimal was and where you're at now. Mine (with a single plane and carb) seems to like 27 so far at the track. But admittedly I haven't done enough testing yet to make that my final conclusion and haven't hit a chassis dyno.....mostly because the results through a TH400 with a loose converter would be less than impressive I assume.
Any plans to sell your LS7 Super Victor? I'm going to go FI at some point in the future with this combo so it would be a nice item to have already on hand if the price was right.
06-18-2019, 12:13 PM
#49
Thanx. The other things I didn't mention were the T56 Magnum and Ford 9" which eat some power, but really this was all about the improvements vs. the absolute number for me. I'm very happy how it turned out!
I may not have stated that correctly... We tried more and less advance and ended up at a curve which made the most power. We made the same power when adding more advance (~2*), so there was a fairly broad range where the power number was effectively the same (with 2-3 rwhp). But we settled on the lower-end of that range (still making the same power) to be a little easier on the engine. No advantage to pushing to the higher advance number when it's not buying me anything. The curve ranged from 23-26*, 23 around peak torque and up to 26 before and after that. Experimenting with timing was the majority of what was done across the 25 pulls.
Remember it's more about tuning than the absolute number, although everyone still wants to see and compare it. 
As a matter of fact, yes I do plan to sell it. I've offered it to a couple of people here before but no taker yet. If interested, drop me a message and we can discuss.
As a matter of fact, yes I do plan to sell it. I've offered it to a couple of people here before but no taker yet. If interested, drop me a message and we can discuss.
06-18-2019, 02:09 PM
#50
10 Second Club
Very nice car and build and your car is kick ***! I was one of those guys with a fast intake on a heads cam LS3. I made 516 RWHP with mid length runners and switched to the LOD Speedworks X1 and gained 46RWHP LOL tune untouched, same day same dyno, swapped intakes and made a pull! Car makes peak power at 7100RPM 562/445 with hydraulic cam and stock ported heads from GPI.
06-18-2019, 07:24 PM
#51
I'll shoot you a PM on the intake. Thanks.
06-21-2019, 10:01 AM
#52
ModSquad
iTrader: (6)
Bryan, I’ve been wondering what numbers you would see, and I see we are almost identical at this point. Good to see your enjoying the car finally, and hope your COTA outing goes well. Stay safe.
06-23-2019, 08:36 PM
#54
It's been a really long weekend (two days at a driving event at COTA), and it unfortunately ended on a bad note. I'm way too tired to go into all of the details now, but the following picture pretty much sums it up. I'll post more when I have time to dive into it.
06-23-2019, 08:53 PM
#55
What rockers are those?
06-23-2019, 11:00 PM
#57
TECH Senior Member
Hopefully that's all that broke. Bummer man! Whose rockers?
06-23-2019, 11:02 PM
#58
Ouch. 
06-24-2019, 09:39 AM
#59
I hope as well... I'll remove a few things and see if the pushrod is still there, then do a leakdown test on the cylinder before I pull anything apart. Spring and valve are still there, so I hope the valve didn't hit the piston, but there's only 1 true way to know.
Rockers are the MMS Yella Terra adjustables for a solid roller cam. I am really kicking myself at the moment for not going back with the Crower shaft rockers I had on my previous setup. Woulda coulda shoulda...
Rockers are the MMS Yella Terra adjustables for a solid roller cam. I am really kicking myself at the moment for not going back with the Crower shaft rockers I had on my previous setup. Woulda coulda shoulda...