AFR 205 vs ET peformance heads, picked up 22 rwhp
11-03-2005, 09:36 PM
#21
The more I think about this, the more we need more info.
To be 100% accurate in a back to back test like this, you need to isolate all the variables you can.
Was the Dyno done the same day?
Was each package optimized tuning wise?
Same compression?
Same head gaskets?
Valve size?
The jury is still out on these heads so time will tell the true tale.
Please, no bashing, no comments on how ET is better, ect. Lets keep this discussion civil.
Louis
To be 100% accurate in a back to back test like this, you need to isolate all the variables you can.
Was the Dyno done the same day?
Was each package optimized tuning wise?
Same compression?
Same head gaskets?
Valve size?
The jury is still out on these heads so time will tell the true tale.
Please, no bashing, no comments on how ET is better, ect. Lets keep this discussion civil.
Louis
11-03-2005, 09:47 PM
#22
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Well said there Louis.
The chambers were the same, and the tune was the same (no change) as they said.
More info is needed for sure, I'd like to see the curves.
The chambers were the same, and the tune was the same (no change) as they said.
More info is needed for sure, I'd like to see the curves.
11-03-2005, 09:52 PM
#23
Originally Posted by Louis
The more I think about this, the more we need more info.
To be 100% accurate in a back to back test like this, you need to isolate all the variables you can.
To be 100% accurate in a back to back test like this, you need to isolate all the variables you can.
A friend of mine just did a head swap on his 00 SS camaro.
I know A&A Corvette is no longer stocking AFR's anymore and have switched over to ET heads unless specifically asked for by customers
Nothing empirical, or substantial just stirring the pot...I am all about stirring the pot, it keeps the industry honest, but you gotta give me something to go on... a dyno-graph, a video... something...
11-03-2005, 10:17 PM
#24
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Craig@ET stepped in and verified that it was true, or at least it seemed that way when he specified what chamber heads were used in this test.... I guess no one will believe him though. Just remember not to take that blue pill on an empty stomach.
11-03-2005, 11:46 PM
#25
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I dont really care to be picked apart regarding the results. It wasnt my car..just a good friend of mine. I didnt say ET's were "Better" than AFR's. Just simple as a car that has always put down a certain rwhp everytime ive dyno tuned it, swapped to another set of heads and made more power (everywhere from down low all the way across). I dont have the dyno sheets handy as he printed out a set for himself.
Used same head gaskets and both heads were in out of the box form using 7.4" comp pushrods. No we didnt check 800 different things, we just swapped heads and retuned. Same compression. It was dynoed on a saturday, then the follow sunday. The temperature was pretty much the same.
Sorry this isnt a big technical results...if you want more through results, do the swap for yourself
Used same head gaskets and both heads were in out of the box form using 7.4" comp pushrods. No we didnt check 800 different things, we just swapped heads and retuned. Same compression. It was dynoed on a saturday, then the follow sunday. The temperature was pretty much the same.
Sorry this isnt a big technical results...if you want more through results, do the swap for yourself
11-03-2005, 11:53 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by VTESPEED
I dont really care to be picked apart regarding the results. It wasnt my car..just a good friend of mine. I didnt say ET's were "Better" than AFR's. Just simple as a car that has always put down a certain rwhp everytime ive dyno tuned it, swapped to another set of heads and made more power (everywhere from down low all the way across). I dont have the dyno sheets handy as he printed out a set for himself.
Used same head gaskets and both heads were in out of the box form using 7.4" comp pushrods. No we didnt check 800 different things, we just swapped heads and retuned. Same compression. It was dynoed on a saturday, then the follow sunday. The temperature was pretty much the same.
Sorry this isnt a big technical results...if you want more through results, do the swap for yourself
Used same head gaskets and both heads were in out of the box form using 7.4" comp pushrods. No we didnt check 800 different things, we just swapped heads and retuned. Same compression. It was dynoed on a saturday, then the follow sunday. The temperature was pretty much the same.
Sorry this isnt a big technical results...if you want more through results, do the swap for yourself
11-04-2005, 12:00 AM
#27
I like your test. They are both out of the box. I am buying the et 240s for my 408. There flow numbers are pretty good and afr dont make an out of the box 240. Just buy which ones you like and let people compare with out making an argument out of it.
11-04-2005, 05:51 AM
#28
Originally Posted by Craig@ETPerformance
Q since the ET's have a 58 cc chamber?
A Our Heads can be ordered in a smaller chamber size if wanted. This test was "Same compression CC on the heads".
A Our Heads can be ordered in a smaller chamber size if wanted. This test was "Same compression CC on the heads".
I am interested in your heads, but when I visited the web site there wasn't a lot of information other than the combustion chambers were 58cc, which I took to mean as that is how they are fabricated and all that is available. Are you stating above that they can be ordered in a 58cc but are available in a stock size (i.e., no change in CR) or that they can be ordered smaller than 58cc? Just want to make sure I understand since I am in the market for heads over the winter.
Thanks
11-04-2005, 09:31 AM
#33
Originally Posted by Vortech
But he had a fast 90/90 ported, EWP and LG headers-we need more info on this combo.
11-04-2005, 09:51 AM
#34
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So this is how I see it-the Cartek 2X cam is as speced on there web site a 224/228 113-how much advance I don't know.
Anyway I dynoed 440/396 through the factory cats and Stainless works headers.
1) If I added LG headers I should gain 10 horsepower and at least 15 ft/lbs of torque-so were at 450/411
2) then if I add the ported FAST 90 and a 90MM TB we should gain at least 20 horsepower and another 10 ft lbs of torque-so now where at 470/420
3) add the electric water pump and then we have another 6 horsepower and 6 ft /lbs of torque-there you have it 476/426
Probably pretty accurate + or - minus 10 horse
With that all being said if I could gain another 22 horse by going to the ET heads-well then you have 496 rwhp with a tiny 224/228 cam!
Bench racing at its finest but maybe not too far feched-I guess it's all about the combo-I would still like to see the ET graph. The menu for us LSX guys get's tougher and tougher to choose from-that's a good thing!
Anyway I dynoed 440/396 through the factory cats and Stainless works headers.
1) If I added LG headers I should gain 10 horsepower and at least 15 ft/lbs of torque-so were at 450/411
2) then if I add the ported FAST 90 and a 90MM TB we should gain at least 20 horsepower and another 10 ft lbs of torque-so now where at 470/420
3) add the electric water pump and then we have another 6 horsepower and 6 ft /lbs of torque-there you have it 476/426
Probably pretty accurate + or - minus 10 horse
With that all being said if I could gain another 22 horse by going to the ET heads-well then you have 496 rwhp with a tiny 224/228 cam!
Bench racing at its finest but maybe not too far feched-I guess it's all about the combo-I would still like to see the ET graph. The menu for us LSX guys get's tougher and tougher to choose from-that's a good thing!
11-04-2005, 10:02 PM
#35
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Originally Posted by Vortech
So this is how I see it-the Cartek 2X cam is as speced on there web site a 224/228 113-how much advance I don't know.
Anyway I dynoed 440/396 through the factory cats and Stainless works headers.
1) If I added LG headers I should gain 10 horsepower and at least 15 ft/lbs of torque-so were at 450/411
2) then if I add the ported FAST 90 and a 90MM TB we should gain at least 20 horsepower and another 10 ft lbs of torque-so now where at 470/420
3) add the electric water pump and then we have another 6 horsepower and 6 ft /lbs of torque-there you have it 476/426
Probably pretty accurate + or - minus 10 horse
With that all being said if I could gain another 22 horse by going to the ET heads-well then you have 496 rwhp with a tiny 224/228 cam!
Bench racing at its finest but maybe not too far feched-I guess it's all about the combo-I would still like to see the ET graph. The menu for us LSX guys get's tougher and tougher to choose from-that's a good thing!
Anyway I dynoed 440/396 through the factory cats and Stainless works headers.
1) If I added LG headers I should gain 10 horsepower and at least 15 ft/lbs of torque-so were at 450/411
2) then if I add the ported FAST 90 and a 90MM TB we should gain at least 20 horsepower and another 10 ft lbs of torque-so now where at 470/420
3) add the electric water pump and then we have another 6 horsepower and 6 ft /lbs of torque-there you have it 476/426
Probably pretty accurate + or - minus 10 horse
With that all being said if I could gain another 22 horse by going to the ET heads-well then you have 496 rwhp with a tiny 224/228 cam!
Bench racing at its finest but maybe not too far feched-I guess it's all about the combo-I would still like to see the ET graph. The menu for us LSX guys get's tougher and tougher to choose from-that's a good thing!
The combination is the sum of the parts. When you have a head flowing this well into the low lifts all the way to .650 you will have higher numbers on the dyno and probably wont pick up as much from the FAST with as powerful as the package already is, and most likely not 22 hp all the time over the AFR's.
Some cars could pick up 30 and some could drop 5, it all depends on the setup. With that being said, the ETP heads are going to make a lot of people very happy, and I don't like bench racing.
Nate
11-05-2005, 09:26 AM
#36
Originally Posted by Nate_Taufer
Can we all get off the bench racing band wagon for a second? This is one car out of many. To say that you will get 20 hp from a Fast intake AND 22 hp from the ET heads over your AFR's is probably not going to happen. Nate
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
11-05-2005, 04:32 PM
#37
Guys...
A quick hello here.
The initial results from a few ET head installs certainly look promising. There CNC work looks very good and lets not forget they have the advantage of a much shallower valve angle and a raised exhaust port which always enhances airflow and ultimately power output. Is the ET 215 really worth 20 HP over an AFR 205 nine times out of ten??....Anybody's guess and the bottom line is we will have to wait and see as more results make it to this website and others. I take my hat off to ET as the product certainly looks good and the results promising, but I think we need to see more of both to determine what the gains (or losses) will stack up to over the long haul. I would still choose a 205 for a street/strip car that wanted to place an emphasis on the "street side" of that equation, as the smaller port is still going to get the nod for part throttle and fuel economy, and we all know the proven power potential even with smaller cams and the right AFR 205 set-up.
Don't forget that AFR set their sites on building an emissions legal direct replacement performance head (all geometry exactly like stock), and within those parameters we have certainly hit a homerun. Are we sitting on our hands now that project is almost complete (awaiting the release of the small chamber 225)?? I will leave that to your imagination...Don't throw away all your "blue pills" just yet....
Competition is a good thing and technology marches on....Exciting times for sure.
Tony M.
A quick hello here.
The initial results from a few ET head installs certainly look promising. There CNC work looks very good and lets not forget they have the advantage of a much shallower valve angle and a raised exhaust port which always enhances airflow and ultimately power output. Is the ET 215 really worth 20 HP over an AFR 205 nine times out of ten??....Anybody's guess and the bottom line is we will have to wait and see as more results make it to this website and others. I take my hat off to ET as the product certainly looks good and the results promising, but I think we need to see more of both to determine what the gains (or losses) will stack up to over the long haul. I would still choose a 205 for a street/strip car that wanted to place an emphasis on the "street side" of that equation, as the smaller port is still going to get the nod for part throttle and fuel economy, and we all know the proven power potential even with smaller cams and the right AFR 205 set-up.
Don't forget that AFR set their sites on building an emissions legal direct replacement performance head (all geometry exactly like stock), and within those parameters we have certainly hit a homerun. Are we sitting on our hands now that project is almost complete (awaiting the release of the small chamber 225)?? I will leave that to your imagination...Don't throw away all your "blue pills" just yet....
Competition is a good thing and technology marches on....Exciting times for sure.
Tony M.
11-05-2005, 04:48 PM
#38
No matter how well the heads flow, your only as good as your weakest point. If the point is the intake than no matter how much the heads flow your going to hit a brick wall. IMO ET/AFR/TFS heads will perform the best when everything has been address from getting the air in and out as efficiently as possible. You need to look at everything from the air filter to the mufflers. Thats what we did on my current build, address anything that could be a flow inhibitor.
Phil
Phil
