AFR 205 vs ET peformance heads, picked up 22 rwhp
11-05-2005, 07:26 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by Craig@ETPerformance
Q since the ET's have a 58 cc chamber?
A Our Heads can be ordered in a smaller chamber size if wanted. This test was "Same compression CC on the heads".
Q Wouldnt the runner sizes make a difference, 205 vs. 215?
Q I agree, not fair comparrison cause they are not the same size head.
A If runner sizes, this small, where to be a huge effect from a 205 to 215, then there would be a trade off for low end torque to upper end horsepower. But a comparison such as this is equal due to that these are both our smaller street heads.
Q Put a milled down AFR 225 against the 215.
A Why not do a ETP 225's to AFR 225's? That is more a equal comparison.
A Our Heads can be ordered in a smaller chamber size if wanted. This test was "Same compression CC on the heads".
Q Wouldnt the runner sizes make a difference, 205 vs. 215?
Q I agree, not fair comparrison cause they are not the same size head.
A If runner sizes, this small, where to be a huge effect from a 205 to 215, then there would be a trade off for low end torque to upper end horsepower. But a comparison such as this is equal due to that these are both our smaller street heads.
Q Put a milled down AFR 225 against the 215.
A Why not do a ETP 225's to AFR 225's? That is more a equal comparison.
great comments
11-06-2005, 08:10 AM
#42
Originally Posted by Patrick G
Getting 20 rwhp gain from a PORTED FAST 90/90 is a piece of cake. Notice Vortech said ported. FWIW, I picked up 27 rwhp running a much milder setup with my ported FAST 90/90. His figures are accurate, bench racing or not.
Curious as to the drop at about 6,500 RPM?
11-06-2005, 02:12 PM
#43
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Originally Posted by Brian Tooley
Wait a minute......Cary and Craig, the ET heads have an 11 degree valve angle and STOCK length pushrods?? What length is the intake valve??
Stock length intake valve, stock length pushrod and 11 degree valve angle don't add up.
Stock length intake valve, stock length pushrod and 11 degree valve angle don't add up.
11-07-2005, 09:12 AM
#44
STOCK length pushrods?? What length is the intake valve??
Stock length intake valve, stock length pushrod and 11 degree valve angle don't add up.
Nope, The valves are 5.450 long and do require a longer pushrod. Most I have seen and the ones we have done here come to 8.050" to 8.200"
Don't throw away all your "blue pills" just yet
Hey Tony, what is up with the Blue pill? I hope it isn't what I am thinking it is. Thanks for the good word out our heads.
Stock length intake valve, stock length pushrod and 11 degree valve angle don't add up.
Nope, The valves are 5.450 long and do require a longer pushrod. Most I have seen and the ones we have done here come to 8.050" to 8.200"
Don't throw away all your "blue pills" just yet
Hey Tony, what is up with the Blue pill? I hope it isn't what I am thinking it is. Thanks for the good word out our heads.
11-07-2005, 07:02 PM
#46
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Now that you got my attention on that, I called to check, he measured with a pushrod length checker and did get some different length pushrods at the local Powerhouse....
Whats the standard pushrod length for these 11 deg heads?
Whats the standard pushrod length for these 11 deg heads?
11-08-2005, 02:22 PM
#49
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Originally Posted by SideStep
I absolutely agree, but come on!!! The first post starts off...
and ends with
You think he has an agenda???
Nothing empirical, or substantial just stirring the pot...
I am all about stirring the pot, it keeps the industry honest, but you gotta give me something to go on... a dyno-graph, a video... something...
and ends with
You think he has an agenda???
Nothing empirical, or substantial just stirring the pot...I am all about stirring the pot, it keeps the industry honest, but you gotta give me something to go on... a dyno-graph, a video... something...
However, a, "good hand ported head," will easily outflow an AFR 205.
In this VTEspeed is correct.
The ET Perfomance head bears watching. There are many dealers.
So do many others Patriot, Cartek, Synergy, Trick Flow, TEA, C5R/LS7, World, hmm.
Last edited by BUYAMERICAN; 11-08-2005 at 02:35 PM.
11-09-2005, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by BUYAMERICAN
However, a, "good hand ported head," will easily outflow an AFR 205.
11-12-2005, 02:45 AM
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Originally Posted by xxxhp
With CNC ported heads, the results are almost guaranteed and consistent, which is not the case with hand ported heads.
We find the deviation between one delta from set to another set from the same maker's we use to be less than 1%.
11-12-2005, 08:11 PM
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seems a little fishy....this being a compression ratio correct swap as stated by Craig@ET means that these were pretty heavily milled AFR's....would that cam still clear?
Then VTESPEED states that both were using the EXACT same 7.4 pushords...shortly later Craig@ET say they are usually 8.05-8.2"....right after VTESPEED says that they used different lengths, retracting his previous statement. As for the AFR pushrod length being 7.4....with a head that heavily milled (To be equal cc for compression) I doubt that would be the correct length, allot of guys use those on un-milled heads.
It is also stated that there was no change in the tune....why not? all this work and no tune? normally if you change one of the biggest factors in breathing characteristics you need to change how the car uses it, Right? Especially an additional 22rwhp worth.
I am not knocking the ET's, they are impressive and innovative....but no matter who you are you have to admit some descrepencies in the testing, matched with the in-ability to post a graph sort of cast's doubt on the REAL gains seen.
Then VTESPEED states that both were using the EXACT same 7.4 pushords...shortly later Craig@ET say they are usually 8.05-8.2"....right after VTESPEED says that they used different lengths, retracting his previous statement. As for the AFR pushrod length being 7.4....with a head that heavily milled (To be equal cc for compression) I doubt that would be the correct length, allot of guys use those on un-milled heads.
It is also stated that there was no change in the tune....why not? all this work and no tune? normally if you change one of the biggest factors in breathing characteristics you need to change how the car uses it, Right? Especially an additional 22rwhp worth.
I am not knocking the ET's, they are impressive and innovative....but no matter who you are you have to admit some descrepencies in the testing, matched with the in-ability to post a graph sort of cast's doubt on the REAL gains seen.
11-12-2005, 10:58 PM
#53
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I dont really care who thinks the comparison is correct or not. I made it very clear that I retuned the car after the swap and obviously you didnt read all of it. I retuned the car before and after. The customer has the dyno graphs of before/after and it wasnt my shop that we did the dyno work at, so i do not have access to the dyno sheets. The swap wasnt done to be a dyno racer and run onto Ls1tech to go "oooh oooh look at what I did". This was a head swap that was done for our own personal interest and I posted the results off half for those who care. If you dont like what you see, dont read the post.
How about you guys go do the swap for yourself and come up with some results of your own and quit complaining about my results.
<That is all, I wont be replying again>
How about you guys go do the swap for yourself and come up with some results of your own and quit complaining about my results.
<That is all, I wont be replying again>
11-13-2005, 01:52 AM
#54
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damn, some people just cant take **** for what its worth. everyone is always asking...how do these heads compare to xxx....this man gave you a real life comparison of an actual "back to back" swap and posts. thats how the average joe with the time and cash would do it. JMHO.
01-20-2006, 12:02 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by VTESPEED
I dont really care to be picked apart regarding the results. It wasnt my car..just a good friend of mine. I didnt say ET's were "Better" than AFR's. Just simple as a car that has always put down a certain rwhp everytime ive dyno tuned it, swapped to another set of heads and made more power (everywhere from down low all the way across). I dont have the dyno sheets handy as he printed out a set for himself.
Used same head gaskets and both heads were in out of the box form using 7.4" comp pushrods. No we didnt check 800 different things, we just swapped heads and retuned. Same compression. It was dynoed on a saturday, then the follow sunday. The temperature was pretty much the same.
Sorry this isnt a big technical results...if you want more through results, do the swap for yourself
Used same head gaskets and both heads were in out of the box form using 7.4" comp pushrods. No we didnt check 800 different things, we just swapped heads and retuned. Same compression. It was dynoed on a saturday, then the follow sunday. The temperature was pretty much the same.
Sorry this isnt a big technical results...if you want more through results, do the swap for yourself
01-20-2006, 04:06 PM
#57
Originally Posted by Tony Mamo @ AFR
Guys...
A quick hello here.
The initial results from a few ET head installs certainly look promising. There CNC work looks very good and lets not forget they have the advantage of a much shallower valve angle and a raised exhaust port which always enhances airflow and ultimately power output. Is the ET 215 really worth 20 HP over an AFR 205 nine times out of ten??....Anybody's guess and the bottom line is we will have to wait and see as more results make it to this website and others. I take my hat off to ET as the product certainly looks good and the results promising, but I think we need to see more of both to determine what the gains (or losses) will stack up to over the long haul. I would still choose a 205 for a street/strip car that wanted to place an emphasis on the "street side" of that equation, as the smaller port is still going to get the nod for part throttle and fuel economy, and we all know the proven power potential even with smaller cams and the right AFR 205 set-up.
Don't forget that AFR set their sites on building an emissions legal direct replacement performance head (all geometry exactly like stock), and within those parameters we have certainly hit a homerun. Are we sitting on our hands now that project is almost complete (awaiting the release of the small chamber 225)?? I will leave that to your imagination...Don't throw away all your "blue pills" just yet....
Competition is a good thing and technology marches on....Exciting times for sure.
Tony M.
A quick hello here.
The initial results from a few ET head installs certainly look promising. There CNC work looks very good and lets not forget they have the advantage of a much shallower valve angle and a raised exhaust port which always enhances airflow and ultimately power output. Is the ET 215 really worth 20 HP over an AFR 205 nine times out of ten??....Anybody's guess and the bottom line is we will have to wait and see as more results make it to this website and others. I take my hat off to ET as the product certainly looks good and the results promising, but I think we need to see more of both to determine what the gains (or losses) will stack up to over the long haul. I would still choose a 205 for a street/strip car that wanted to place an emphasis on the "street side" of that equation, as the smaller port is still going to get the nod for part throttle and fuel economy, and we all know the proven power potential even with smaller cams and the right AFR 205 set-up.
Don't forget that AFR set their sites on building an emissions legal direct replacement performance head (all geometry exactly like stock), and within those parameters we have certainly hit a homerun. Are we sitting on our hands now that project is almost complete (awaiting the release of the small chamber 225)?? I will leave that to your imagination...Don't throw away all your "blue pills" just yet....
Competition is a good thing and technology marches on....Exciting times for sure.
Tony M.
01-28-2006, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Redneck Z
That's one thing the AFR's definately have going for them. The CARB # is why I will be buying the AFR's and not the ET's.
01-28-2006, 04:44 PM
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I ordered a pair of 245`s for my 408. Love the look and the results so far. Mine is mostly street so I`m not worried about racing at the track. G-Force loves them, and I trust these guys bigtime. Will let you know this week the flow numbers and dyno numbers. Then everyone can bitch and say there not true. What, I WILL post my dyno graph and flow sheet so everyone will see. Talk next week!