Yeah, it seems pretty obvious now. 1/4" seemed like a small amount when you haven't ever done it before. lol I agree though. It would be nice not to break something everytime I take it out.

Thanks all for the help. I think this one is figured out. I'll let you know how the swap goes and take some pictures to ensure all looks well.

 

If you have to pull the converter 1/4", and loading the trans with boost moves the converter forward enough to pull the converter out of the pump, is shimming 1/8" going to solve the issue? That would be going from disengaged or nearly disengaged from the tangs to barely engaged.

I would look at a better flex plate while you are at it to maybe keep it from moving so much? Or do you have a good flexplate now?

Ron

 

Get a different converter. Ive had one that took out pumps in trannys and Ive had one that took out thrust bearings in engines. Best thing you can do is get rid of it.


Not so sure the flexplate moving forward is the problem as much as letting off the gas and the converter slamming back into the trans.

 

This is from the Rossler website, I fallow his specs when spacing converters and I will use the thick grade 8 washers if needed along with new longer hardware if I am changing it that much. Just make sure if you do space it back alot that you still have plenty of pilot engagement. You can check that on the bench with the flex-plate off the car once you know the converter spacing.

 

[QUOTE=pwrtrip75;17261695]Get a different converter. Ive had one that took out pumps in trannys and Ive had one that took out thrust bearings in engines. Best thing you can do is get rid of it.

QUOTE]

this guy may be up to something.

is this their $900 converter or the $450 one?

Im asking because your last passes are showing far more slip than the typical turbo slip converter numbers Ive seen.

Good luck with the rebuild man. Please let us know what they find.

 

Exactly what i do. I even use the drill bit, lol

 

Make sure that the converter has an "anti ballooning plate". When the converter balloons, it will also moves forward pulling further out of the pump giving less engagement into the pump gear. Was the same converter used in all the failed transmissions? I would also check the crank shaft thrust. When a converter balloons it also loads the thrust main bearing, sometimes wiping it out. There is a Youtube video that shows it. Kinda cool to watch. Most $400 converters don't have them.

 

My convertor was the expensive one. I am very, very pleased with my convertor. I am not going to get the terminology correct but He showed me something that said the convertor is NOT engaged enough.....meaning I am pulling it out to far when I am bolting it to the flywheel. If that Rossler is correct I have way to much gap. It showed that I needed the convertor to engage about another 8th inch. The builder said to use an 1/8" washer and it should be fine. He is tearing it apart and going to check it all out and put it back together tomorrow. The pump was also ruined. It did push into the pump but he said when it didn't fully engage it actually locked in the ring instead of seeding itself. I appologize for not knowing the correct terminology. lol. He tore it apart in front of me and it was obvious what was damaged. It was the two notches on the ring and the pump had been grinded down a little. He was very convinced that if I shim the convertor with a washer it will be fine.

Of course the pump and ring will be replaced.

 

Here ya go. TH400, but nearly identical.



The 2 gears and the housing pump the oil. Not too dissimilar from the oil pump in your LQ4.

The two tangs in the inner gear are what mate with the two slots in the end of the converter snout.

Those tangs are about 3/8" deep.

Ron

 

2 different situations I know of and experienced. A very reputable more expensive converter took the thrust bearings out a friends engine, converter was sent back, returned all rebuilt and gone through. I put it in my setup, competley different engine and trans.... took the thrust bearing out in the engine within a week. I know it was installed correctly as Ive had several setups and check everything closely.

A different situation, different converter, reputable name brand and their more expensive one. Took a different friends pump out, split the gear in half. Trans was taken to reputable trans shop. New pump put in, converter inspected, found nothing VISIBLY wrong, then converter sent back to manufacture. Supposedly they went through it and found nothing wrong.
Everything put back together very much correct. Took the pump out again.

I dont know the process in which they test these converters, Im curious to know if they have the ability to see the thrust force that is created when testing it not on a car? And if 1 out of however many is bad, do they know what to look for if a converter is doing this?
And if you send it back..... is the right person looking at it? Im guessing a converter could be taken apart and look perfect inside to someone that doesnt know exactly what to look for. Unless its a common thing perhaps not all employees at these converter places are experienced with dealing with this situation?

I know of the 2 converters my friends and I sent back one returned with the same paint and scratches on it as when it was sent out... they claimed is was 100% good. Not sure if they put it on some machine and tested it and it passed that test so they just sent it back? The 3rd pump was put back in that trans and back in car w/ that converter. After a couple hits the pump had a slight whine to it in the trans....car was then sold as is.

But id be very leary with what the converter manufacture says is "good". A few of them do not have the experience with controlling the thrust pressure.

 

Since you have the converter out, see if the trans builder or send it to PTC and have them check the runout on the converter. A friend of mine had to much runout on the converter and it took out 3 pumps within a few months. I really think that it is just a problem with the gap between the converter and flexplate. Good luck to you with the problem and I hope it gets taken care of.

 

Thanks Ron for posting and others for chiming in. I'll try the convertor one more time before I send it in. The only reason is on all three transmissions I never used a washer to close the gap so it doesn't surprise me I have issues. Plus, the convertor works so damn good I would hate to have anyone even touch this thing. My builder is convinced it is the gap so we will give it a shot. Only cost me $140 to fix it this time and that is with a new pump, ring, band.

He did say that I was showing some heat though and was surprised with me using O'reilly's 303 hydraulic tractor fluid. Just to be safe I think I am going to use the John Deer brand. Does anyone know specificially what I need to ask for other than John Deer Hydraguard Tractor Oil?

Thanks. Should have it back in tomorrow. Just picked it up.

 

We've used the oreilly 303 brand in quite a few cars and it works just as good as the john deere stuff, just giving ya a heads up.

 

Ok. good to know. From watching my video can you tell if there is anything weird I might be doing that is causing it to get a little hot? My convertor is stalls at 3400-3600. I have my 2 step set for 4k. My builder said that I need to try and leave on 3400 then because overstalling it is probably is what is causing it to get a little hot. The only problem is car leaves like a turd at less than 3800. I guess I will just leave it at 3800, save the trans and convertor and get my times on the top end.

Thanks for posting all. I am putting the trans back into day as I get time.

 

Another sign pointing towards a POS converter. I would throw that thing off a bridge into the deepest river I could find.

 

Well hopefully this will fix the problem.

 

Do you have a 2 step?

 

Yes, I have a 2 step. My builder thinks my the main problem was not using spacers. After doing the drill bit test, I actually needed two washers. So I am sure that was the problem. The getting hot issue wasn't real bad just something he noticed. My stall is only a 3400-3600 and I have the 2 step set for 4k-4200. He said overstalling it is what is probably causing the issue but it wasn't bad.

I got the trans in with the 2 washer spacer and 4 quarts of O'reilly's 303 tractor fluid. I was at a stopping point and left it there. In the morning I will get the starter on, charge the battery and fire it up and drive it around. Should be racing it on Saturday again if all goes well. If no 5's, I have new 7lbs spring arriving on Monday and I will just up the boost from 10 to 14lbs. That should more than take care of anything it lacks off the line.

Thanks again for all the help. Now I officially know how to space up the convertor. It took a while. lol

 

Im with ya on the spacing, i burnt up 2 trannys and broke one converter before i figured out it was the spacing in my old car.

I will say though , you say your converter is a 3400-3600 but from the video i would have guessed it was a 4000+. It sounds really loose. even before your on the brake it seems you can still footbreak it 3500+ ,just an observation.

 

If the convertor spacing is not right it will trash the pump every time. you want to pull the convertor out 1/8 and no more than 3/16 if you have a 1/4" gap you need to measure the pilot to make sure its long enough to engage the crank by at least 3/16 to not move around and again break the pump.