Lost my motor last night, so whats the recipe?
11-04-2015, 10:54 AM
#1
Lost my motor last night, so whats the recipe? It let go tonight doing what it does best 
, haven't dismantled yet to see what failed, left couple quarts of Rotella on the side of the road. Tune was pretty conservative at 16* timing and 11.5 AFR on E85, I estimate it was making around 630-650whp, #6 plug was chewed up, so looks like standard rod or rod bolt failure, since noting looked out of the ordinary.
So i'm looking for the recipe for a the new forged shortblock.
The goal is to keep it simple, same 10.5:1 compression, aluminum block, 7000-7200rpm capable, I wan't like 750whp next rounds, so I should probably build it to handle 800-900, probably slap 243s on it again, what the go-to piston and rod setup for LS motors.
I did happen to get it on video
, haven't dismantled yet to see what failed, left couple quarts of Rotella on the side of the road. Tune was pretty conservative at 16* timing and 11.5 AFR on E85, I estimate it was making around 630-650whp, #6 plug was chewed up, so looks like standard rod or rod bolt failure, since noting looked out of the ordinary. So i'm looking for the recipe for a the new forged shortblock.
The goal is to keep it simple, same 10.5:1 compression, aluminum block, 7000-7200rpm capable, I wan't like 750whp next rounds, so I should probably build it to handle 800-900, probably slap 243s on it again, what the go-to piston and rod setup for LS motors.
I did happen to get it on video
11-04-2015, 11:26 AM
#4
For every SBE you see make 800hp+ there are 5 of them that puked their guts all over the road. You don't hear about the puking SBE's. Just the winners. My .02.
Sometimes with a SBE, **** just happens. But hey, they are cheap and plentiful right? Grab a new one and carry on.
11-04-2015, 12:13 PM
#7
TECH Addict
For 750hp, people just use genIV oem parts. Lol.
Stock stroke, 3.622", and 6.125" rods, with a 1.304" piston height is pretty standard/popular. Same piston height can be used with a 3.27" crank and 6.3" rods if you want to use the short throw crank from the 4.8L motors.
Personally, I would either build a forged 5.3 or a forged ls2, budget allowing. Or better yet, a forged 5.3 liter ls2 (3.27" stroke in the 4.0" bore)!
Stock stroke, 3.622", and 6.125" rods, with a 1.304" piston height is pretty standard/popular. Same piston height can be used with a 3.27" crank and 6.3" rods if you want to use the short throw crank from the 4.8L motors.
Personally, I would either build a forged 5.3 or a forged ls2, budget allowing. Or better yet, a forged 5.3 liter ls2 (3.27" stroke in the 4.0" bore)!
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11-04-2015, 12:50 PM
#9
LS1 blocks have the thin sleeves, I wouldn't bother with it. Get a gen4 bone stock 4.8/5.4/6.0 and drop it in. No need for aftermarket at those levels. Any of them will make 750whp easily on e85.
FWIW it's usually something stupid that takes out an engine. Clogged injector, bad gas, faulty timing chain, over rev,boost spike,wrong plug, etc.. those things will take out a 10k motor just as easily as a 1k Jy motor. I'd chalk up odd ball losses like that as "the price of racing" and toss in another stock short block.
FWIW it's usually something stupid that takes out an engine. Clogged injector, bad gas, faulty timing chain, over rev,boost spike,wrong plug, etc.. those things will take out a 10k motor just as easily as a 1k Jy motor. I'd chalk up odd ball losses like that as "the price of racing" and toss in another stock short block.
Last edited by Forcefed86; 11-04-2015 at 12:56 PM.
11-04-2015, 12:52 PM
#10
my post isn't about fuel 
but yes, it's E85 on a gasoline scale. this motor easily has 50+ nitrous bottle at that AFR trapping high 138 on more aggressive timing. it worked, A rod just had enough.
i'm here for piston rod combos
my cam now is more tailored to the 5.7 227/227 115LSA
but yes, it's E85 on a gasoline scale. this motor easily has 50+ nitrous bottle at that AFR trapping high 138 on more aggressive timing. it worked, A rod just had enough.
i'm here for piston rod combos
my cam now is more tailored to the 5.7 227/227 115LSA
11-04-2015, 01:04 PM
#11
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As others have said the gen4 rods in the gen3 motors seems to be a good recipe. Look for a 04-06 lq4 with the newer rods/pistons and that is set to handle quite a bit of power on stock bottom end.
11-04-2015, 02:11 PM
#12
TECH Addict
The thin sleeves of the ls1 are also why I said to use a 5.3 or ls2, just to support not using the ls1 block for a boost application. Forging an ls1 is an effort in futility, in my opinion.
Personally, I would do whatever it takes to get into a ls2 block. Even if it means using oem parts, over the forged rotating assembly you appear to be looking for.
Your cam would be just fine for the six liter ls2, so no worries there. And the 4" bore gives you the ability to use bigger valves.
Since you have a single pattern cam, I would leave the intake valve the same size ls6 hollows, and install bigger exhaust valves, maybe 1.59" ls9 sodium filled valves if they fit. In a well sorted out combination, the intake side of stock 243's can support 500hp at the flywheel naturally aspirated, so focusing on the exhaust side will prove to be especially beneficial in a forced induction application.
Plus, the 4" bore allows you to use ls3 heads in the future, if you so choose to make that leap.
Personally, I would do whatever it takes to get into a ls2 block. Even if it means using oem parts, over the forged rotating assembly you appear to be looking for.
Your cam would be just fine for the six liter ls2, so no worries there. And the 4" bore gives you the ability to use bigger valves.
Since you have a single pattern cam, I would leave the intake valve the same size ls6 hollows, and install bigger exhaust valves, maybe 1.59" ls9 sodium filled valves if they fit. In a well sorted out combination, the intake side of stock 243's can support 500hp at the flywheel naturally aspirated, so focusing on the exhaust side will prove to be especially beneficial in a forced induction application.
Plus, the 4" bore allows you to use ls3 heads in the future, if you so choose to make that leap.
11-04-2015, 02:22 PM
#13
Most gauges read lambda, so it does not matter if its 14.7 or 9.5:1, it sees 1.0 lambda as stoich, so 11.5 on gas and 11.5 on e85 on same scaling is actually a different afr if that makes sense. I had a hard time getting this in my head also, and cant explain it the best. I run .78 lambda on e85 which shows on a gas scaled gauge as 11.4 afr, but if it was scaled for e85 it would show like 7.5 or something
11-04-2015, 04:14 PM
#16
I spun a bearing on my LS1 and have been debating on which direction I need to go. Was leaning towards a set of forged rods, and pistons with the stock crank.
It was mentioned above about the LS1 walls not being strong enough. When pushed hard are people ovaling or cracking LS1 cylinders? As it seems like I have seen big numbers being made out of forged LS1's.
It was mentioned above about the LS1 walls not being strong enough. When pushed hard are people ovaling or cracking LS1 cylinders? As it seems like I have seen big numbers being made out of forged LS1's.
11-04-2015, 04:29 PM
#18
TECH Addict
If you want to use your block, you can use a stock crank, get some JE forged 3.905" slugs, with a compression height of 1.175", using a forged 6.25" Eagle SIR I-beam rod. Puts you at a friendly 1.73 rod ratio, which is about as good as it gets for the 3.62" stroke as far as that's concerned.
You can use any of the various pistons with a compression height of 1.140" and the stock 6.275" rod from a 4.8 with a stock 3.62" crank and end up with the pistons like .01 below deck, which can be shaved down a bit.
Lots of options for rod and piston combinations, it just depends what you want.
Are you set on reusing the block you have now?
You can use any of the various pistons with a compression height of 1.140" and the stock 6.275" rod from a 4.8 with a stock 3.62" crank and end up with the pistons like .01 below deck, which can be shaved down a bit.
Lots of options for rod and piston combinations, it just depends what you want.
Are you set on reusing the block you have now?
11-04-2015, 05:08 PM
#19
i'm assuming the rod ported my block, haven't found the window hole yet.
I'm making the decision based around which aluminum block I find. from the sounds of it, Gen IV rotating assembly sounds like the way to go. come across couple Gen IV blocks, but looks like that adds an addition cost with the 58x and i'll need another cam.
I'm making the decision based around which aluminum block I find. from the sounds of it, Gen IV rotating assembly sounds like the way to go. come across couple Gen IV blocks, but looks like that adds an addition cost with the 58x and i'll need another cam.
11-04-2015, 07:06 PM
#20
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My ls1 had a stock crank with forged pistons and rods. The guy i sold it to made 950rwhp in his monte for 4 years before his turbo took out the motor. Theres an 1100hp camaro thats been running around here on the stock block with a forged rotating assembly for the past 6 or 8 years. Just sayin that people are out there making HP on LS1 blocks. Not saying its the way to go but people are doing it and the ones i've been around seem to be holding together.
