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Cheap boost by gear solution? why not use mac valve and mbc?
At 600whp im looking to drop boost on 1st and 2nd gear.
I searched for boost by gear solution but using hptuners looks like id be stuck with purchasing expensive boost controllers that are capable of boost by gear.
Or switch to an expensive standalone.
I did find someone with microcontrollers on the shifter. Which gave me an idea.
Since there is no need for me to control 3rd+ gear since i have traction there ill only describe 1st and 2nd.(but if the need arise then it can be added on.)
What i was thinking is micro switches on 1st and 2nd gear. 3+ gears wont need one.
4 port mac valve and two MBC see pic.
Basically port 3 is normally open and 1 or 2 only opens when triggered and other ports are closed.
On 1st gear port 1 is opened and all other is closed. it will boost to wastegate spring pressure(or you can add a mbc to fine tune it here also)
on 2nd gear port 2 is opened and will boost to let say 12psi through a MBC.(example only)
when on 3+ gears (NO)it goes through a 20psi MBC
What do you guys think?
cost would be pretty cheap and even with nice quality mbc should be around 200-300
I have something similar as a boost safety for my methanol injection.
Basically on my current setup it is triggered by mt met inj. the port closes and it boost 20psi, should my methanol fail or not turn on the mac valve doesnt close and remain on NO and drops boost to 12psi. works great so far.
Can you give me some ideas of other ways people have configured multiply boost(more than two/just high low) by gear? simpler is better.
I was under impression that if mac valve makes 2 exit that they would also make 3+ exit valve aswell. If this isnt the case then i would have to go with what i was thinking off originally.
ill try to describe the pic and hopefully what im thinking off makes sence.
black=hose
2 mac valve= orange
2 MBC = green
pressure= boost source.
let say your desired boost is
1st gear = 8 psi
2nd gear = 12 psi
3rd + gear = 20psi
wastegate spring is 8 psi
1st gear micro switch will turn on first mac valve and will by pass all the rest of the system and run 8 psi directly.
when on 2nd gear first valve will be NO, and 2nd valve will be turned on and run 12 psi through the first MBC.
when on 3+ gear everything will be on NO and run through 20 psi mbc
thus having 3 boost levels on different gear.
the turbo smart looks like a high low only which a mac valve and mbc can do.
How about a timer and WOT activation switch to 1 solenoid. Once activated say 4 seconds into the run (or however long it takes you to get into 3rd) boost jumps up to desired level. Timer resets after X amount of time... Or has a toggle switch.
You could also get fancy with an Arduino board and a little programming. Then it could slowly ramp up to full boost over 4 seconds with a PWM output.
Last edited by Forcefed86; 09-14-2016 at 02:01 PM.
By the time you **** about, dialing in all the bleeds etc to achieve the boost you want, it would be far easier just to have bought some sort of boost controller.
If you want an easy route to 3 boost levels, just buy a cheap *** EBC.
Level 1 - Unit off, gate pressure only.
Level 2 - Unit on/Low
Level 3 - Unit on/High
And it will all be easily adjustable from inside the car with very little ******* about.
Most will have a manual switch to go between the hi/lo, but I'm sure something external could easily be rigged up.
Or here is a cheap ***** chinese version of the Turbosmart. Using 1 or more of these you could achieve the same sort of thing
An Arduino if you can do that sort of stuff would probably make it all very easy.
I have a board sitting here beside me...just never tried to use it or do anything with it yet. Never worked with them before but I'm sure they have lots of potential, and there's bound to be people already using them for similar.
How about a timer and WOT activation switch to 1 solenoid. Once activated say 4 seconds into the run (or however long it takes you to get into 3rd) boost jumps up to desired level. Timer resets after X amount of time... Or has a toggle switch.
You could also get fancy with an Arduino board and a little programming. Then it could slowly ramp up to full boost over 4 seconds with a PWM output.
timer would probably work for the strip but not on a street car.
I guess i should have stated that its for a street car.
ill look into arduino board but probably not something i would run since i dont even know how to start with that.
By the time you **** about, dialing in all the bleeds etc to achieve the boost you want, it would be far easier just to have bought some sort of boost controller.
If you want an easy route to 3 boost levels, just buy a cheap *** EBC.
Level 1 - Unit off, gate pressure only.
Level 2 - Unit on/Low
Level 3 - Unit on/High
And it will all be easily adjustable from inside the car with very little ******* about.
Most will have a manual switch to go between the hi/lo, but I'm sure something external could easily be rigged up.
Or here is a cheap ***** chinese version of the Turbosmart. Using 1 or more of these you could achieve the same sort of thing
An Arduino if you can do that sort of stuff would probably make it all very easy.
I have a board sitting here beside me...just never tried to use it or do anything with it yet. Never worked with them before but I'm sure they have lots of potential, and there's bound to be people already using them for similar.
not sure why it would be so hard to dial things in. its would be the same as dialing in a mbc. you go wot then check boost level, turn the **** go wot again, check the pressure and repeat. whats so hard about that? just repeat twice for the two boost controller.
inconvenient sure but id go through that to save a few hundred.
I dont really care for IN CAR adjust ability i find that they become useless as soon as you get things dialed in. they are just extra cost USUALLY. if it doesnt cost more sure ill take in car adjustability.
this isnt about easy, if that was the case if buy the next best thing. its about cheap functioning unit.
the mbc /evc you linked looks like out of car adjust. so same principle. and looks like i would require two. looks like it would be cheaper but not sure if they are reliable. ill look into it thanks.
This unit looks like it would combined the mac valve and MBC so i could end up with only $150 boost by gear
Connect the remote input wire to a switch, button, or ECU output to change boost presets or activate scramble boost
No doubt the instructions will explain more.
Nobody said it would be hard. Just time consuming.
With an EBC, it's all quick and easy and you dont even need to leave the drivers seat. And should you need to make changes later, or at the track etc it takes a few seconds.
I honestly dont know why anyone would **** about with manual controllers etc unless they are forced to use them for rules or something, or it really is just a simple/budget build.
But EBC's are so cheap I just cant see any reason not to have some form of electronic control when it makes life so easy both for now and the future.
Even more so when you're wanting multiple boost levels
It has 1 input which you can run boost by gear but again track only.
meaning you can bump it to the next boost setting each time you hit it. no way for it to know you went back to 1st gear for example. or if your just driving around.
MBC is still continue to be my go to when it comes to boost controller.
its cheap, reliable and simple.
no wires no fuss just run the vac lines. setting it up isnt even as time consuming as you make it sound. Pretty sure i can set up a MBC up and running while your still routing your wires through your firewall/soldering some wires etc etc.
ive had multiple evc from my import days. i like them but after a while i saw them as pointless FOR MY USE.
1. I dont ever need hi lo. im always on high
2. once i set it to a certain boost it stays like that. i saw no need to "adjust" because i have it max where i want it to be to begin with.
3. in car adjust ability is only usefull during setup. after that its set it and forget it.
issues ive had when EVC didnt work well. solenoid going out = $$
controller took a dump on me one time(bought used -go figure) = $$
i had one heck of a time setting up an apexi controller once.
there great stuff with them but not needed IMO.
whats your definition of cheap?
if i can save 50-100+ thats more money for other mods.
Cheap is something I fit once and never have to **** about with again. That takes seconds to set up, is future proof and saves time ******* about wasting time/fuel.
Yes there may be some initial install time, but that's no big deal.
But I agree, it is unbelievable in this day and age there are so few true boost by gear controllers out there. Although most with autos etc seem quite happy with a staged increase like the above would offer and what the very expensive controllers like Leash/AMS offer whilst claiming boost by gear, even though it isnt.
The Apexi AVCR does offer boost by gear, as does Plex PBC Pro.
The MS3 also offers boost by gear or speed or time for less than most of the big name boost controllers alone. Then you can use it's the many other features. Even if you don't use it for fuel/spark it's a pretty handy little box at a great price.
Cheap is something I fit once and never have to **** about with again. That takes seconds to set up, is future proof and saves time ******* about wasting time/fuel.
Yes there may be some initial install time, but that's no big deal.
But I agree, it is unbelievable in this day and age there are so few true boost by gear controllers out there. Although most with autos etc seem quite happy with a staged increase like the above would offer and what the very expensive controllers like Leash/AMS offer whilst claiming boost by gear, even though it isnt.
The Apexi AVCR does offer boost by gear, as does Plex PBC Pro.
wow your definition of cheap is backwards dont you think?
That might be asking too much for little money.
If its cheap I always expect more work to make it work. possibly more down time. You get what you pay for kind of deal. Not always the case but that seems to be the general consensus.
If its not cheap then it should be bolt in or with minimum time wasted.
definitely reliable.
avcr was the one that had me chasing my tail . Could have been bc i was still a newbie back then and not as much info online as they do now. i have already jump ship from that controller lol
the other controller is 900 controller. that pretty pricey. the point of this post was keeping the cost to 200-300. I would definitely try two of the dual stage one you linked before first and see how that works.
The MS3 also offers boost by gear or speed or time for less than most of the big name boost controllers alone. Then you can use it's the many other features. Even if you don't use it for fuel/spark it's a pretty handy little box at a great price.
I ditch the idea of MS for my other project since i was feeling like i was going to be way over me head
I might reconsider it since this current project im working on is a swap and requires rewiring. What kind of features are you referring too?
This is the first ive read someone recommending its use outside of being a standalone.
Ive always like the MS idea. looks like a fun learning project, i think im just too much of a chicken when it comes to electronic stuff lol
but i have to learn some how
There are quite a few. You have multiple VSS inputs so you can setup things like traction control and boost by speed/gear. PWM water/meth injection, PWM fan control, Nitrous control. Also has several inputs so you can log multiple parameters like oil pressure, fuel pressure, turbo back pressure, pressures pre/post IC, IAT temps pre/post IC…trans/oil temps, EGT etc etc…
It’s a great ecu as well, but it has enough other functions at a competitive price that it would be worthwhile over some of the more expensive boost controllers. Really makes no sense not to go ahead and wire it into fuel/spark. Then you have all the other race related goodies like 2-3-steps, anti-lag, AFR safeties, progressive timing control, auto tune etc…
The harness is a pretty big expense if you don’t make your own and basically doubles the price. So take that into consideration. Not exactly cheap if you can’t wire it on your own… but you get a lot of features for the cost IMO.
Might also look into a simple timing controller with a switched input. Aren't those pretty cheap? Like a nitrous or boost timing controller you could setup on a 3rd gear micro switch?
Last edited by Forcefed86; 09-15-2016 at 09:55 AM.
09-14-2016, 10:08 AM
Cheap boost by gear solution? why not use mac valve and mbc? 
. Could have been bc i was still a newbie back then and not as much info online as they do now. i have already jump ship from that controller lol
