moekluse

iTrader: (2)

Hi guys, I'm getting my turbo kit for my c5 planned out and its time for an intercooler. the setup is a fully forged 5.3 minus crank, 317 heads, howards 224 230 @50 .609/.604 115 lsa, don't know as far as turbo, twin 76s or single 80, 83 or 88, 8.3 :1 cr, looking for around 1000hp to the ground +-100.

what are the benefits or going air to water, i know it gives motor cooler, denser air, but does it make a lot more power than an air to air? is it worth having to fill up a tank with cold water to run it? this will be a street car, so practicalite is important. Thanks in advance

gametech

iTrader: (1)

There are a lot of pros and cons to either, but I prefer air to air for a street car, and air to water for a 1/4 mile car. A/W will eventually heat soak, unless you have a good A/A heat exchanger to run your water through. This not an issue at the dragstrip, and as you know the water can be chilled through various means, adding power potential. On the street not only is this not any practical benefit, but it also adds weight on the nose of the car, as well as adding complexity to a street ride. I like to keep things as simple and light as possible for a street car, within reason. I expect to have to constantly tinker with **** on a track car.

stevieturbo

If you build either system correctly, then neither is better than the other....

Except if you have an ability to cool the liquid below ambient, then of course A2W can have advantages.

Other than that space is always the biggest limitation with either, but A2A is hard to be beat for simplicity.
It's there, it always works, requires zero maintenance, less weight, usually cheaper etc.

Use the biggest highest quality core you can, and job done.

moekluse

iTrader: (2)

Sounds great, thanks guys

customblackbird

iTrader: (2)

A2A for street
A2W for the strip.

A2W is better for super high HP ratings, and the ability to cool below ambient for track runs. Not the best for the street and you rely on a electric pump to circulate fluid, added weight of fluid, mounting of tank etc.

A2A is as simple as it gets. No maintenance, nothing to burn out/stop working... just works as long as it gets fresh air.

Only reason to run an A2W on the street is limited space, no airflow or very high boost/hp levels.

Cwarta

iTrader: (12)

Just bought an a/w setup for my turbo build, talking with guys On yellow bullet and turbo bullet, have no issues keeping temps within 20* of ambient after hours of street driving, using the appropriately sized exchanger and reservoir of course.

Street car 6-700hp build

oscs

iTrader: (19)

I've had both on the same car. A2A is tough to beat for obvious reasons but unless you're running around street racing all night A2W is pretty good too. For me in the end The decision was easy. I was more concerned with going faster at the trace rather than the street.

Blown06

iTrader: (32)

I vote a2w in almost all situations. I've seen documented proof that that even running around doing a little street roll racing with an a2w out performed the previous a2a set up. Dude was using straight tap water. No ice........obviously if you are actually driving the thing around.

Just need a large water tank. Preferably 8+ gallons with the pump on a hobbs switch.

You can also plumb in a heat exchanger, but it needs to be a very good one that does not kill pump flow and still has lots of surface area.

1bdbrd

iTrader: (12)

I have always thought this was an interesting viewpoint on the setups. Interesting because lots of manufacturers run a2w setups from the factory and a good majority of them never have issues.

I have always been of the opinion that either will work but a2w will always work better from a pure performance standpoint if you have the ability to get ice water in the system. I'd rather have a2w so I didn't have to cut up the front of my car for some stupid front mount.

oscs

iTrader: (19)

Like anything else it's in the setup and details. Water is better at pulling out heat. That is a fact.

stevieturbo

That only suggests his A2A was a bad setup. In much the same way there could be people saying they went from A2W to A2A and ran better.

It doesnt really mean anything.

Some people go from A2A to a better A2A and run faster...

A bad setup is a bad setup regardless of whether it's water or air based, and likewise for a good setup.

TrendSetter

i have a w/a on my truck and i used a second radiator in front of the stock stuff for the tank/exchanger.

customblackbird

iTrader: (2)

WHile alot run A2W alot run A2A, look at BMW... A2A. The new corvettes run A2W and alot of them are maxing out the setups and having issues with IAT temps. ITs all over the net... upgrades or changes need to be made even in stock form when racing. GM is currently working on an solution to resolve it. Once the corvettes IATs get too high the PCM puts the motor into a safe mode and the guys race/race day is over.

OE's do it both ways. For reliability and fool proof A2A is as basic as it gets. A2W is much more complicated but works in tighter spaces. Still though you have to have a reservoir so your only increasing space where a FMIC would have been but loosing space somewhere else with pump, lines and a big enough water reservoir.

AS already stated... Water absorbs wayyy more heat than air. so thats why you get away with a much smaller A2W core vs and A2A. So it will always have that advantage. But once the fluid is heated in an A2W you have to wait much longer for the fluid to cool compared to an A2A.

Both setups work, both require different available space. Both also work off different principles but A2W are more complex and have added weight of a fluid reservoir.

LJMSJohn

picking the cam before you even know what turbos are on it...


Thats doing it backwards.

Air to water is best... but heavy Even with ambient temp water an air to air cant complete with its efficiency.

Only issue is packaging... and with a C5 you dont have any frontal area at all for an air to air to do much good. I personally do air to water on everything possible.

And you should have left the static compression in it..

moekluse

iTrader: (2)

I bought the cam brand new a few months ago, when I was planning a different turbo build, but went na on that one, I said what the hell, I'll run it, going with twin billet bw s362SX-E 62/68

I will be pretty much redoing the entire engine bay, radiator is moving way closer to the front, I was planning on putting an air to air but I will consider air to water because of the limited space.

I got the same advice on raising cr back up, I have new 317s, so I'll likely end up going with aftermarket heads, to raise it back up to the mid 9:1cr.

thanks for the helpful advise everyone, will start shopping around for an intercooler tonight.

gsteele

How much do you expect to gain by raising the CR back up? Any down side?

oscs

iTrader: (19)

Anytime you raise compression you decrease Your tuning window. There is a sweet spot for every setup/car.

moekluse

iTrader: (2)

I'd love to keep it where it is, but the higher the cr, the more power n/a, the less boost your need to run to make the same power, but might keep 317s. I couldnt give a crap how slow it builds boost, it'll be a Sunday warrior/ street strip car, so I want it to be semi reliable so low cr with great tunews might be the way I go

moekluse

iTrader: (2)

Does anyone know of an intercooler intake manifold? I see a couple air to water intercooler that fit into a holley high ram intake, but I was wondering If there was a purpose built air to water intercooler intake manifold for cathedral ports, and do they work alright? or would you guys just reccomend a separate intercooler, I'm pretty tight on space due to the fact it's a front mount twin setup on a c5, so if i could package 2 things in one that would be great. thanks

stevieturbo

I think LPE make a compact unit, or anything can be custom made.

http://www.lingenfelter.com/product/...l#.WCbd6S2LQkI

How well they work...no idea. Other than for using with ice though, it would seem using such a cooler is always starting from a bad place...with a cooler installed in tight to a roasting hot engine which will always be imparting heat into that "cooler", so that heat needs dealt with even before any charge air heat.

But some guys love that type of cooler so who knows.