How much can backpressure effect hp and turbo spooling?
06-14-2017, 11:49 PM
#21
some compressor covers come with an un-tapped port for the speed sensor. its just a sensor that measures wheel speed. It allows you 'see' where the compressor is on it's map. My borg warner came with the partially drilled hole, I am not sure how hard it is to add one to a cover that never had one.
06-15-2017, 04:01 AM
#22
9 Second Club
As you're running the SXE's ? you should already have a port on the compressor cover. It may just need drilled through.
http://www.jegs.com/i/BorgWarner/156/179430/10002/-1
https://www.kseriesparts.com/cr/BGW-179430.html
http://www.treadstoneperformance.com...50&cat_key=579
I believe you should be able to run this direct to the Holley, as I think they're just a digital signal
Or this box would appear to convert that signal to a more friendly 0-5v analogue signal if preferred.
http://www.roadragegages.com/tss.htm
http://www.jegs.com/i/BorgWarner/156/179430/10002/-1
https://www.kseriesparts.com/cr/BGW-179430.html
http://www.treadstoneperformance.com...50&cat_key=579
I believe you should be able to run this direct to the Holley, as I think they're just a digital signal
Or this box would appear to convert that signal to a more friendly 0-5v analogue signal if preferred.
http://www.roadragegages.com/tss.htm
06-15-2017, 10:13 AM
#26
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Delta-P IN Crossover Hi LMT, allow me to state an answer in a different way.
WHEN your intake pressure (MAP) is greater than your exhaust pressure (EMAP), the engine will run better (SAFER) with BEST POWER at that RPM.
The Camshaft and Turbocompressor must be a good match with an often report of 5" (2.5 psi) and RPM range of 1000 at Delta Pressure.
I bought a B-24 (WW-II) bomber twin manifold pressure gauge in 1973 to make this type of measurement AND painted one pointer Blue, the other Red as they where on top of each other's center.
Thus an easy read when the engine was in "crossover", the read of the Blue being HIGHER than the Red pointer even when on the track.
When I saw the Blue pointer higher the the Red pointer I always had the steering wheel straight as the wheels would then "spin".
Sure I sell the sensor, there are turbos that are fitted with this sensor when bought new.
I buy them from Joe Moore, he is "X" AiReaserch and my Pantera customer.
My CHOICE would be a EMAP/MAP gauge over that item.
NOW the answer to the second part of your question.
The common case of MAP/EMAP observation is that they will follow each other close within a common range.
THEN as RPM increases the EMAP could RISE at a GREAT RATE.
This IS the POINT that the turbine is starting to go into CHOKE.
THAT IS NOT GOOD for engine life and power WILL not INCREASE.
The engine "spool", the turbine speed increase, must match the camshaft intake duration to allow the engine to reach "song".
When this is correct, the engine will "light" with best speed.
I have ways to reduce EMAP, would you be interested ?
Lance
WHEN your intake pressure (MAP) is greater than your exhaust pressure (EMAP), the engine will run better (SAFER) with BEST POWER at that RPM.
The Camshaft and Turbocompressor must be a good match with an often report of 5" (2.5 psi) and RPM range of 1000 at Delta Pressure.
I bought a B-24 (WW-II) bomber twin manifold pressure gauge in 1973 to make this type of measurement AND painted one pointer Blue, the other Red as they where on top of each other's center.
Thus an easy read when the engine was in "crossover", the read of the Blue being HIGHER than the Red pointer even when on the track.
When I saw the Blue pointer higher the the Red pointer I always had the steering wheel straight as the wheels would then "spin".
Sure I sell the sensor, there are turbos that are fitted with this sensor when bought new.
I buy them from Joe Moore, he is "X" AiReaserch and my Pantera customer.
My CHOICE would be a EMAP/MAP gauge over that item.
NOW the answer to the second part of your question.
The common case of MAP/EMAP observation is that they will follow each other close within a common range.
THEN as RPM increases the EMAP could RISE at a GREAT RATE.
This IS the POINT that the turbine is starting to go into CHOKE.
THAT IS NOT GOOD for engine life and power WILL not INCREASE.
The engine "spool", the turbine speed increase, must match the camshaft intake duration to allow the engine to reach "song".
When this is correct, the engine will "light" with best speed.
I have ways to reduce EMAP, would you be interested ?
Lance
06-15-2017, 10:20 AM
#27
Hi LMT, allow me to state an answer in a different way.
WHEN your intake pressure (MAP) is greater than your exhaust pressure (EMAP), the engine will run better (SAFER) with BEST POWER at that RPM.
The Camshaft and Turbocompressor must be a good match with an often report of 5" (2.5 psi) and RPM range of 1000 at Delta Pressure.
I bought a B-24 (WW-II) bomber twin manifold pressure gauge in 1973 to make this type of measurement AND painted one pointer Blue, the other Red as they where on top of each other's center.
Thus an easy read when the engine was in "crossover", the read of the Blue being HIGHER than the Red pointer even when on the track.
When I saw the Blue pointer higher the the Red pointer I always had the steering wheel straight as the wheels would then "spin".
Sure I sell the sensor, there are turbos that are fitted with this sensor when bought new.
I buy them from Joe Moore, he is "X" AiReaserch and my Pantera customer.
My CHOICE would be a EMAP/MAP gauge over that item.
NOW the answer to the second part of your question.
The common case of MAP/EMAP observation is that they will follow each other close within a common range.
THEN as RPM increases the EMAP could RISE at a GREAT RATE.
This IS the POINT that the turbine is starting to go into CHOKE.
THAT IS NOT GOOD for engine life and power WILL not INCREASE.
The engine "spool", the turbine speed increase, must match the camshaft intake duration to allow the engine to reach "song".
When this is correct, the engine will "light" with best speed.
I have ways to reduce EMAP, would you be interested ?
Lance
WHEN your intake pressure (MAP) is greater than your exhaust pressure (EMAP), the engine will run better (SAFER) with BEST POWER at that RPM.
The Camshaft and Turbocompressor must be a good match with an often report of 5" (2.5 psi) and RPM range of 1000 at Delta Pressure.
I bought a B-24 (WW-II) bomber twin manifold pressure gauge in 1973 to make this type of measurement AND painted one pointer Blue, the other Red as they where on top of each other's center.
Thus an easy read when the engine was in "crossover", the read of the Blue being HIGHER than the Red pointer even when on the track.
When I saw the Blue pointer higher the the Red pointer I always had the steering wheel straight as the wheels would then "spin".
Sure I sell the sensor, there are turbos that are fitted with this sensor when bought new.
I buy them from Joe Moore, he is "X" AiReaserch and my Pantera customer.
My CHOICE would be a EMAP/MAP gauge over that item.
NOW the answer to the second part of your question.
The common case of MAP/EMAP observation is that they will follow each other close within a common range.
THEN as RPM increases the EMAP could RISE at a GREAT RATE.
This IS the POINT that the turbine is starting to go into CHOKE.
THAT IS NOT GOOD for engine life and power WILL not INCREASE.
The engine "spool", the turbine speed increase, must match the camshaft intake duration to allow the engine to reach "song".
When this is correct, the engine will "light" with best speed.
I have ways to reduce EMAP, would you be interested ?
Lance
06-15-2017, 10:40 AM
#29
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IGN-1A Coil Dwell Hi LMT, this is good news that you have the IGN-1A coil fitted as does Andy Frost (RED VICTOR) and he runs 50 + .lbs on "meth" in England with success.
The Holley should have the GEN-IV firmware with the MAP/Dwell object implemented as I suggested to Doug Flynn.
I do not believe this is your problem though I ask ?
What dwell settings ?
What Spark Plugs ?
What SPG ?
These answers will help "rule out".
Lance
The Holley should have the GEN-IV firmware with the MAP/Dwell object implemented as I suggested to Doug Flynn.
I do not believe this is your problem though I ask ?
What dwell settings ?
What Spark Plugs ?
What SPG ?
These answers will help "rule out".
Lance
06-15-2017, 01:08 PM
#31
Found cam card, .625/625 282/278 234/230@.50 115 love center 111 icl. Trick flow 245. 6 bolt heads, I do log back pressure, at 27 psi it's only 35-37. Dwell is 5.0 gap .021 ngk br8s (don't remember the exact number, non project, resistor)
06-15-2017, 11:26 PM
#37
I received his tune file and some logs and returned some PM's with where I feel there are some issues to sort out.
Main Problem:
From what I can see, I think the intercooler is a restriction and inefficient. The MAT or intake temperatures really catch my eye for an 1/8 mile pass. I would be interested in seeing some logs on the lower boost to see what difference there is an intake temperatures. I think you should put a pressure sensor preintercooler and verify your pressure drop across the intercooler.
On your your 27psi hit, you launch with an MAT at 114degrees and are at 174degrees by the end of the 1/8 mile. Something tells me there are some extreme inefficiencies there.
I recently had made a similar hit, but mine being a 1/4 run. I have a A2A as and on my recent 24psi pass, mine MAT's went from 92-116 degrees Again, a 1/4 mile hit. I was making 24.3 psi downtrack, and 27psi preintercooler. That was on a 8.51@166mph hit.
I think it would be a quick / cheap check to see the pressure drop across your intercooler. I think you are running into issues there. Can buy a bung, weld it in, and a $20 sensor from Ebay / Amazon. Would tell a lot of info. But I think it shows with your increases in you 1/8 mile temps.
I could see the converter playing a part as well. It was about 16% slip if I entered everything in correctly at the end of the 27psi pass. It would help to run it out the 1/4, but if this is an 1/8 mile car, your converter isn't helping.
The spool time seemed very lazy as well (could this be attributed to the intercooler, maybe).
Your 24psi pass, you launched on 7psi and it took about 3 seconds to hit 24psi.
On my 24psi pass, I launched at 6.4psi and it took under 1 second to hit 24psi. A lot more time there that I would be making some steam. Would definitely show in the MPH.
I thought I would put these out there for others to chime in. We are here to help. My first observations. Whether they are correct / incorrect.
Main Problem:
From what I can see, I think the intercooler is a restriction and inefficient. The MAT or intake temperatures really catch my eye for an 1/8 mile pass. I would be interested in seeing some logs on the lower boost to see what difference there is an intake temperatures. I think you should put a pressure sensor preintercooler and verify your pressure drop across the intercooler.
On your your 27psi hit, you launch with an MAT at 114degrees and are at 174degrees by the end of the 1/8 mile. Something tells me there are some extreme inefficiencies there.
I recently had made a similar hit, but mine being a 1/4 run. I have a A2A as and on my recent 24psi pass, mine MAT's went from 92-116 degrees Again, a 1/4 mile hit. I was making 24.3 psi downtrack, and 27psi preintercooler. That was on a 8.51@166mph hit.
I think it would be a quick / cheap check to see the pressure drop across your intercooler. I think you are running into issues there. Can buy a bung, weld it in, and a $20 sensor from Ebay / Amazon. Would tell a lot of info. But I think it shows with your increases in you 1/8 mile temps.
I could see the converter playing a part as well. It was about 16% slip if I entered everything in correctly at the end of the 27psi pass. It would help to run it out the 1/4, but if this is an 1/8 mile car, your converter isn't helping.
The spool time seemed very lazy as well (could this be attributed to the intercooler, maybe).
Your 24psi pass, you launched on 7psi and it took about 3 seconds to hit 24psi.
On my 24psi pass, I launched at 6.4psi and it took under 1 second to hit 24psi. A lot more time there that I would be making some steam. Would definitely show in the MPH.
I thought I would put these out there for others to chime in. We are here to help. My first observations. Whether they are correct / incorrect.
06-15-2017, 11:54 PM
#39
On your your 27psi hit, you launch with an MAT at 114degrees and are at 174degrees by the end of the 1/8 mile. Something tells me there are some extreme inefficiencies there.
The spool time seemed very lazy as well (could this be attributed to the intercooler, maybe).
The spool time seemed very lazy as well (could this be attributed to the intercooler, maybe).
06-16-2017, 12:00 AM
#40
its the intercooler in my sig pic. its a huge bell piece. i had to move my charge pipe and my mat sensor is almost touching a wrapped exhaust pipe. wonder if im getting bad readings? what could be wrong with a turbo? theres no shaft play in either of them