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My first single turbo build

 
Old 08-21-2018, 10:33 AM
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the time you spend now making sure the fuel system is right and your gate doesnt leak will prevent blown up motors down the road.
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Old 08-21-2018, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Kfxguy View Post

well I guess Iíll have to rely on just the clamp. How do v band clamps seal? Thereís no gasket and it just donít look like they seal well to me.
the self align version have a interlocking lip that align and seal the vband. Other versions without the lip you extend the pipe through it or add them. I added 1/2" to mine for a leak free seal, then I added 3" SS vband gaskets and I have been leak free.

heres what I add, I just tack it on the inside. Unless your have enough to slip through the vband when your fabbing. I didnt fab these peices, I just added the slip fit collars so I dont get any leaks you prob can't see the gasket, its a thin stamped MLS style.




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Old 08-21-2018, 11:56 PM
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Where did you get the mls gaskets?
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Old 08-22-2018, 01:18 PM
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The Vbands I got off ebay. They are pretty expensive for what they are. Think I paid $6 each shipped and got 6 at the time. Just google 3" V band gasket. I see them for $5-10 each depends on where and what you get + shipping.
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Old 08-22-2018, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by customblackbird View Post
The Vbands I got off ebay. They are pretty expensive for what they are. Think I paid $6 each shipped and got 6 at the time. Just google 3" V band gasket. I see them for $5-10 each depends on where and what you get + shipping.
meh. That was the first place I looked. The only thing I could find was $103 shipped each from Australia.
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Old 08-22-2018, 01:53 PM
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Ok. I called cometic. They sell the 3Ē ones and can make custom sizes. Either way they are about $6 each. I love that company, I use their gaskets any time I can.
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Old 08-22-2018, 02:08 PM
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Yea it doesn't matter where you get them from, a guy quoted me like $8 each for copper at one time. Depending on the gasket they will only seal up to a certain amount. A trick I have learned is to get the remflex collector gaskets and just cut the excess off (bolt ears), they have the correct ID and they will seal largely warped flanges.

For $6 its a worth the gamble, if you got a leak at a vband pre turbo is hurts performance, if you get one after or before it can affect AFR readings.
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Old 08-22-2018, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by customblackbird View Post
Yea it doesn't matter where you get them from, a guy quoted me like $8 each for copper at one time. Depending on the gasket they will only seal up to a certain amount. A trick I have learned is to get the remflex collector gaskets and just cut the excess off (bolt ears), they have the correct ID and they will seal largely warped flanges.

For $6 its a worth the gamble, if you got a leak at a vband pre turbo is hurts performance, if you get one after or before it can affect AFR readings.
i know. That’s the reason I wanted gaskets. I just don’t feel certain that v bands seal all that well and it’s really hard not to warp the flange at all. I’ve been welding the stuff bolted on to another flange but man if you put enough heat it’s gonna warp it no matter what. I just want to go the extra mile to be problem free as much as possible. I tend to over do things a lot.

Last edited by Kfxguy; 05-08-2019 at 03:21 PM.
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Old 08-27-2018, 12:18 AM
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I finished it tonight. Well I at least got it running. I had some snafus along the way. I didn’t like how the crossover pipe fit. I had to pry it over some to get it to go into place. I put a nice little flex bellows from ace race parts and I put a sleeve of pipe in the v band and welded it in there so it would line the pipes up better too. I just felt like it didn’t line up well enough. I ended up using 5/16 factory Honda vacuum hose for my waste gate and blow off valve. Used factory like spring clamps. Honda also uses them on their turbo cars so I feel good about using them instead of zip ties. I had one plug wire that was a little close to my down pipe but I was able to zip tie it far away. I got rid of the pressure can because I felt like the coolant level would never be correct because it stays lower than the radiator. I ordered a billet weld on cap and cut the can I made and redid it. I made an intake for the airfilter also. I didn’t have a 45 degree pipe so I had to make one. I’m pretty happy with how things turned out.























Last edited by Kfxguy; 05-08-2019 at 03:23 PM.
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Old 08-27-2018, 08:51 AM
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Woohoo! Looks good, now the problem is your going to have to keep your foot out of it since your fuel system won't last long. When boost comes in its gona feel like an animal.
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Old 08-27-2018, 08:54 AM
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Sorry I also never asked, the $400 On3 78/75 is a cast wheel and Journal bearing? May I ask what restrictor your running? Only because if its a journal bearing and your running a stock style oil pump make sure your not running a restrictor. On my VS 78/75 cast wheel I drilled out the T4 oil restrictor to .125" or 1/8" (Viren recommneds no restrictor). Dont want you to starve that new turbo before you get to have any fun with it.
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Old 08-27-2018, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by customblackbird View Post
Sorry I also never asked, the $400 On3 78/75 is a cast wheel and Journal bearing? May I ask what restrictor your running? Only because if its a journal bearing and your running a stock style oil pump make sure your not running a restrictor. On my VS 78/75 cast wheel I drilled out the T4 oil restrictor to .125" or 1/8" (Viren recommneds no restrictor). Dont want you to starve that new turbo before you get to have any fun with it.

i drilled it to .080. You think I should go bigger? I don’t want any smoke pouring out the back.

I think for fuel pump I’m gonna go with a dw300c for now. Eventually when I decide to go higher boost I’ll put a 400 in with a return. I think I’m going to take the schrader valve out the fuel pressure port and do a return from that. Cross that ditch when I get there I guess.

Yes its a cast wheel. And journal bearing. I’m sure that will eventually change. This will be a process. I just had to at least get it going because if I didn’t:

1) I’d lose interest
2) my wife was ready to catch it on fire. So if I can work on things here and there then it won’t be like the past two months with the car up in the air. And my *** getting chewed off every other day. Lol

Last edited by Kfxguy; 05-08-2019 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 08-27-2018, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Kfxguy View Post



i drilled it to .080. You think I should go bigger? I donít want any smoke pouring out the back.

I think ink for fuel Iím gonna go with a dw300c for now. Eventually when I decide to go higher boost Iíll put a 400 in with a return. I think Iím going to take the schrader valve out the fuel pressure port and do a return from that. Cross that ditch when I get there I guess.

Yes its a cast wheel. And journal bearing. Iím sure that will eventually change. This will be a process. I just had to at least get it going because if I didnít:

1) Iíd lose interest
2) my wife was ready to catch it on fire. So if I can work on things here and there then it wonít be like the past two months with the car up in the air. And my *** getting chewed off every other day. Lol
Its hard to say, if your drain is adequate (size and slope) the large restrictor size shouldnt push past the turbo seals. Viren would tell you to run "no restrictor" which if your running a AN4 line then thats like a .250" ID line. Drilling to .125" or 1/8" is still a restriction in relation to the line size. I haven't had any issues with mine, I did run a restrictor on my Cx 76/65 cast journal turbo... only becuase it was supplied with the turbo but it was small like .040". Now what I know how I'm suprised I didn't take the turbo out... but it was only on for a few hundred miles.

The cast wheel will be fine for you, it will support alot of power (700whp), billets get u a bit more and faster spool but the 78/75 spool pretty fast anyways so I dont think you will need to upgrade. I was asking bc the billet wheel might get BB and thus the restrictor is required, journal bearing need alot of oil, BB not so much.

Just keep an eye on fuel pressure especially in boost and get some logs so you can verify its good.
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Old 08-28-2018, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by customblackbird View Post
Its hard to say, if your drain is adequate (size and slope) the large restrictor size shouldnt push past the turbo seals. Viren would tell you to run "no restrictor" which if your running a AN4 line then thats like a .250" ID line. Drilling to .125" or 1/8" is still a restriction in relation to the line size. I haven't had any issues with mine, I did run a restrictor on my Cx 76/65 cast journal turbo... only becuase it was supplied with the turbo but it was small like .040". Now what I know how I'm suprised I didn't take the turbo out... but it was only on for a few hundred miles.

The cast wheel will be fine for you, it will support alot of power (700whp), billets get u a bit more and faster spool but the 78/75 spool pretty fast anyways so I dont think you will need to upgrade. I was asking bc the billet wheel might get BB and thus the restrictor is required, journal bearing need alot of oil, BB not so much.

Just keep an eye on fuel pressure especially in boost and get some logs so you can verify its good.

good info. Just realized it was you in my other thread. Lol.


Ive finally decided on fuel pump. I just hung up with aeromotive and told him what I was doing and what I wanted. He suggested the 11565 stealth pump for now. My buddy has one and he’s had no issues with it and I’ve never had issues with aeromotive stuff. What sold me on it vs the deatschwerks dw300c was a couple tests I found online where the stealth 340 outdid it and it holds pressure better than the deatschwerks. The guy at aeromotive told me the 325 and 340 are the same pumps but the 325 is for non return systems like mine and it will flow a little less because of that. He said it’ll support 700 flywheel on boosted applications. That should be enough for my goal of 550-600 to the tire. And understand this is a build and upgrade and learn as I go.

Last edited by Kfxguy; 05-08-2019 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 08-28-2018, 03:05 PM
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Yup!

I ran the 340 before my 450 and it worked well. Just verify the pressure and flow so your within safe limits. You gotta look at like base pressure plus boost 1:1 = max fuel pressure and then see what the pumps flow at that pressure. The 340 or most pumps loose flow as pressure increases and thats bad for boost engines that need the most fuel in the boost range. Your base is at 58psi + say 12psi boost = 12psi fuel + 58psi = 70psi...you can look at the attached graph that shows 255lph at 70psi. So your only flowing 255lph at that pressure. So you size your injectors to flow more at a lower base pressure to keep the pump happy. Decrease base pressure to 43psi via a aftermarket return regulator thats 1:1 and you can gain 50lph at base pressure (275lph at 58psi) and (325lph at 43psi) and just get injectors that flow more at 43psi. So get 60lb at 43psi which will be 72lb at 58psi or get 80lb at 43psi so you keep the engine fed and the pump happy. Again Ive never had an issue with my 340 which I ran for a year and it was a quiet pump, the 450 I think is just as quiet and cost about the same.
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Old 08-28-2018, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by customblackbird View Post

Yup!

I ran the 340 before my 450 and it worked well. Just verify the pressure and flow so your within safe limits. You gotta look at like base pressure plus boost 1:1 = max fuel pressure and then see what the pumps flow at that pressure. The 340 or most pumps loose flow as pressure increases and thats bad for boost engines that need the most fuel in the boost range. Your base is at 58psi + say 12psi boost = 12psi fuel + 58psi = 70psi...you can look at the attached graph that shows 255lph at 70psi. So your only flowing 255lph at that pressure. So you size your injectors to flow more at a lower base pressure to keep the pump happy. Decrease base pressure to 43psi via a aftermarket return regulator thats 1:1 and you can gain 50lph at base pressure (275lph at 58psi) and (325lph at 43psi) and just get injectors that flow more at 43psi. So get 60lb at 43psi which will be 72lb at 58psi or get 80lb at 43psi so you keep the engine fed and the pump happy. Again Ive never had an issue with my 340 which I ran for a year and it was a quiet pump, the 450 I think is just as quiet and cost about the same.

you still have a single pump? Itís a deatschwerks 400? Returnless?

See how the aeromotive doesnít drop off in flow. Thatís what sold me on it. I have deka 60ís which are 79-80lbs at 58psi. I donít have a way to raise fuel pressure with boost. Iíve read that itíll be fine that way on lower power pieces and under 8 psi. My cap with this motor, no matter what is 8psi. I donít want to exceed that at all. Until I yank the motor and go through it.
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Old 08-28-2018, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Kfxguy View Post



you still have a single pump? Itís a deatschwerks 400? Returnless?

See how the aeromotive doesnít drop off in flow. Thatís what sold me on it. I have deka 60ís which are 79-80lbs at 58psi. I donít have a way to raise fuel pressure with boost. Iíve read that itíll be fine that way on lower power pieces and under 8 psi. My cap with this motor, no matter what is 8psi. I donít want to exceed that at all. Until I yank the motor and go through it.
Single pump in an OE hangar using OE hard line 3/8" steel crushed lines out of the tank, 5/16" return line to the tank (Return style aeromotive regulator 1:1). Its a walbo 450lph (267 series), basically a lower PSI HV pump, (274 series) is the high pressure HV version. The Aeromotive does drop in flow, just not drastic, a drastic drop is usually depicted as a "relief valve pressure cracking open". All OE style intake pumps have an internal valve preset to a pressure, once hit it opens and kills pressure to keep the pump alive, all pumps have different valve pressures. The Aeromotive 340 has a 90psi case pressure I think so the check valve would be close to that.

Your fuel injector flow will lower with say 8psi of boost pushing back on the fuel... your 60lb at 43.5psi will actually flow 54.2lb with 8psi of boost at WOT as max flow.

The 60lb deka (what I have running now) and also a 60lb bosch (i also have) will not flow that much at 58psi. See attached pics of converters, they will flow about 69-70lb, (my boschs were rated closer to 72lb when tested at 58psi).




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Old 08-28-2018, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by customblackbird View Post
Single pump in an OE hangar using OE hard line 3/8" steel crushed lines out of the tank, 5/16" return line to the tank (Return style aeromotive regulator 1:1). Its a walbo 450lph (267 series), basically a lower PSI HV pump, (274 series) is the high pressure HV version. The Aeromotive does drop in flow, just not drastic, a drastic drop is usually depicted as a "relief valve pressure cracking open". All OE style intake pumps have an internal valve preset to a pressure, once hit it opens and kills pressure to keep the pump alive, all pumps have different valve pressures. The Aeromotive 340 has a 90psi case pressure I think so the check valve would be close to that.

Your fuel injector flow will lower with say 8psi of boost pushing back on the fuel... your 60lb at 43.5psi will actually flow 54.2lb with 8psi of boost at WOT as max flow.

The 60lb deka (what I have running now) and also a 60lb bosch (i also have) will not flow that much at 58psi. See attached pics of converters, they will flow about 69-70lb, (my boschs were rated closer to 72lb when tested at 58psi).



well i dunno then.

I will point out a few few things for thought tho. My buddy has the same aeromotive pump in his gto, his pressure stays rock steady at 62psi. He has a fuel pressure gauge in the car. Heads and cam car, runs 11.80 at 118mph. So it’s not quite stock. Not boosted but just a worthy tidbit to point out. My injector data for my 60lb Dekas are around 80lbs at 58 psi. That and other stuff if read about them being flowed was what I was going by. I may be wrong. It’s happened a time or two, lol. I’ll post my injector flow data when I get home. I have all of the accurate data for them.
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Old 08-28-2018, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Kfxguy View Post



well i dunno then.

I will point out a few few things for thought tho. My buddy has the same aeromotive pump in his gto, his pressure stays rock steady at 62psi. He has a fuel pressure gauge in the car. Heads and cam car, runs 11.80 at 118mph. So itís not quite stock. Not boosted but just a worthy tidbit to point out. My injector data for my 60lb Dekas are around 80lbs at 58 psi. That and other stuff if read about them being flowed was what I was going by. I may be wrong. Itís happened a time or two, lol. Iíll post my injector flow data when I get home. I have all of the accurate data for them.
im not sure what ur trying to point out... the 340 will hold pressure just fine to 90psi.... itís flow is just like half what it is at 40psi. Iíve used it to 70 psi boosted no issues. I just knew if I pushed more power and boost I would need more fuel. I think they are rated to 90psi and so are the walbro 450 267 style but the 450 247 high pressure has a cracking pressure of like 110psi or something. Flow still drops as pressure increases but it doesnít drop like a rock till the relief opens.

Please do post the injector data. Itís not possible for them to flow 60lb at 43psi and gain 20lb with 15psi. Since itís a static flow and itís only a pressure increase itís constant. That would be pretty sweet if my 60lb long deka injectors flow 80lb at 58psi lol.
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Old 08-28-2018, 08:01 PM
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Ok I was kinda wrong. Looks like at atmospheric they flow 75.2





this data is for a returnless. When the engine and injectors are under vacuum they flow more. Which is useless under boost. So I guess I should have gotten some 80’s. O well. I can sell these later for about what I paid for them anyways.
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