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kelsey_canard 12-08-2018 03:04 AM

Neglected 5th gen build
 
Hey guys,

Been out of the cars for a bit, but everyone knows the bug never quits. I've noticed quite a bit of the groups have moved to facebook, which I dont care for that much. I try to stay loyal to the forums since they've helped me out so much in the past. As long as people still frequent here I always try to give back. Anyways, I came across this 5th gen camaro roller near me that I just had to go check out. Once I saw the thing it was like a knife to the heart, and I knew something had to be done with it. It was just sitting, neglected, and waiting for something to be done to it. Way too much potential to be forgotten about. Here's the pics:

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...c1c9a4f5ec.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...4a91785e8b.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...17949091c4.jpg


So, a little background on the car since I feel like that's the most interesting to me. The guy I bought it from bought it off an online auction with a, "Bad motor." Get's the car shipped to him, and its got a bad truck 5.3 in it that's just lying in the engine bay. Didn't even have an oil pan on it. His plans were to rebuild an ls3, and kick it on down the road. But after he got the car as a basket case, that threw a wrench in his plans. He pulls the carfax, and see's that the vehicle was repo'ed and labeled as vandalized from what he assumes to be the original engine being yanked out of it. He chalked it up as the original owner knew it was going to get repo'ed, and pulled the engine just to recoup some money. Although, I do guess it's possible that the previous owner blew up the old motor, and it was repo'ed while it had a bad motor that he was trying to get going. Either way, the guy I bought it from got a bigger project than he expected. He had 3 or 4 other projects he was working on, and after it sat for 3 or 4 months, he listed it for sale, and thats when I came and bought it. It just had too much potential for me to pass up for the price. Here's a little info on the car, the good and the bad:

-Clean title 50k mile 2010 SS
-Auto trans still in the car
-Brand new race stars
-7/10 interior
-6/10 body, but will clean up with some work
-Surprisingly intact wiring harness, etc.....Looks like the motor was pulled correctly minus the parts missing.

So, I towed the thing home today. My next step will be to figure out what to do with the car. Since I'm used to 5k shit boxes, this is where I ask the forum for help as this is my first 5th gen. I'm outside of my normal comfort areas, and don't know how to act with a semi nice to me car. The financially responsible thing to do would be to flip it as a roller, or put a l99 in it, and kick it down the road. But, I've got this terrible idea to put a truck motor in it, and go semi sloppy on a turbo build. Atleast then I could enjoy a race car for a few years, and not lose my ass when I sale it like I'm used to doing. I've done ~550hp on a cheap turbo build on my truck back in 2013. So, I'm really considering something around this range as an option for this car. The questions I have:

-Has anyone done a sloppy or budget style build on a 5th gen, and can tell me what I'm in for?
-What all will I get into making a truck motor work in this thing?
-How's the 6l80e do on ~600hp
-How's the IRS do on ~600hp.
-What's the final sale value on something like this if I build it and spend my time with it?

Thanks for looking everyone, and I'll be sure to follow up on what happens with the car.

jordoza 12-08-2018 06:51 PM

Congrats. I own a 2012 myself and i have sloppy built a turbo for it. Im moving on to twins now but i learned a few things on the way.
1 screw the 6l80. Go 4l80. Use the pcm of nc conversion harness.
2 rear end is pretty strong till you get traction. Then axles break first. Then the posi starts slipping. Driveshaft shop makes good axles and jeanetty racing makes a posi upgrade kit for cheap. Dont get anything else from jeanetty ecspecually tuning.
3 these cars are heavy. Mine is 3900 no driver and wieght saving in action. They need torque to get moving. Do a 6.0 minimium in my opinion.
4 if you run the cheapo ebay motor mounts and get rid of the crap factory oil cooler you can fit a 4 inch down pipe and an s480 on the drivers side. A 4 inch will dp will fit on the passengers side if you relocate the abs and fusebox. I did its a huge job took me 4 days of wiring.
5 1 inch drop springs work good on the drag strip with lakewood 90/10 struts in the front qnd 50/50 in the rear.
6 a 4 inch intrcooler fits in the front with minimal trimming.
7 if you are gonna act an ass in the car pull the air bag fuse first or a power slide will result in side air bag deployment. They are hella expensive to replace. There is a company on ebay that will make a plug to replace them so the light isnt on anymore if they pop but that is only for off road lol.
8 rear suspension mods are super important to get a consistant launch or performance. Start with cradle bushings the stock ones suck so bad its unbelieveable how much the cradle moves under heavy stock power. Go straight for solid mounts. Car isnt any louder and it performs totally different. Then control arms all of them. Bmr makes good stuff for a decent price.
9 fuel pump. Get a zl1 pump install it and eliminate the fp control module. Install a relay to control it and a ken bell boost a pump and the zl1 pump will support 770rwhp before it starts to drop off. If you boost a pump with out eliminating the fp module it will only supprt 650 or so before drop off.
I can supply a wiring diagram and how to when your ready.
10 if you put a non dod engine in and try to start it it will run on four cylinders until you get the ecm tuned. Also the oil level sensor will plug into to the crank sensor and vicea versa. Just so you know.

any questions just ask i know the 5th gen camaros pretty damn well.

jordoza 12-08-2018 06:54 PM

Oh also replace your heater core hoses with 2012 and up hoses and it will tuck them down and against the frame instead of on top of the engine like the 10-11 had.

jordoza 12-08-2018 06:56 PM

Whatever engine you use has to be 58 tooth reluctor and front cam sensor.

jordoza 12-12-2018 08:12 PM

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...742d50d2f2.jpg
i actually still have my old hotside from the picture if you wanna run a s400 t4 it would work awesome. Up to you pm me if your interested.

one fast zo6 12-13-2018 02:40 AM

Hi it should be a cool little project! Good job.

kelsey_canard 12-13-2018 11:04 PM


Originally Posted by jordoza (Post 20013406)
Congrats. I own a 2012 myself and i have sloppy built a turbo for it. Im moving on to twins now but i learned a few things on the way.
1 screw the 6l80. Go 4l80. Use the pcm of nc conversion harness.
2 rear end is pretty strong till you get traction. Then axles break first. Then the posi starts slipping. Driveshaft shop makes good axles and jeanetty racing makes a posi upgrade kit for cheap. Dont get anything else from jeanetty ecspecually tuning.
3 these cars are heavy. Mine is 3900 no driver and wieght saving in action. They need torque to get moving. Do a 6.0 minimium in my opinion.
4 if you run the cheapo ebay motor mounts and get rid of the crap factory oil cooler you can fit a 4 inch down pipe and an s480 on the drivers side. A 4 inch will dp will fit on the passengers side if you relocate the abs and fusebox. I did its a huge job took me 4 days of wiring.
5 1 inch drop springs work good on the drag strip with lakewood 90/10 struts in the front qnd 50/50 in the rear.
6 a 4 inch intrcooler fits in the front with minimal trimming.
7 if you are gonna act an ass in the car pull the air bag fuse first or a power slide will result in side air bag deployment. They are hella expensive to replace. There is a company on ebay that will make a plug to replace them so the light isnt on anymore if they pop but that is only for off road lol.
8 rear suspension mods are super important to get a consistant launch or performance. Start with cradle bushings the stock ones suck so bad its unbelieveable how much the cradle moves under heavy stock power. Go straight for solid mounts. Car isnt any louder and it performs totally different. Then control arms all of them. Bmr makes good stuff for a decent price.
9 fuel pump. Get a zl1 pump install it and eliminate the fp control module. Install a relay to control it and a ken bell boost a pump and the zl1 pump will support 770rwhp before it starts to drop off. If you boost a pump with out eliminating the fp module it will only supprt 650 or so before drop off.
I can supply a wiring diagram and how to when your ready.
10 if you put a non dod engine in and try to start it it will run on four cylinders until you get the ecm tuned. Also the oil level sensor will plug into to the crank sensor and vicea versa. Just so you know.

any questions just ask i know the 5th gen camaros pretty damn well.

Thanks a ton for the info jordoza. Noticed there's not a lot of info on these forums for the 5th gens, especially anything sloppy style. Guess most people are smart enough not to ruin a semi new car. I've fairly well decided on going the sloppy route with a moderate budget. Likely going to sell the 6l80, and go th400 or 4l80e. I detest having transmission problems, and want something that works in any toy I own. Simple, and no bullshit. So, trans is always a priority. Prlly just throw a gen 4 bottom end truck motor in there, and whatever on the top end. Looking at a s475 t4, and thinking of shooting for 700hp now. I've done all the tuning on turbo cars before. So, thats not an issue for me. A few questions I'm trying to work through now:

1. Are there any options for a driveshaft that aren't $700+? Has anyone made a steel one that you know of?
2. I'm going to have to piece together a motor with all accessories. So, I'll need things like oil pan, intake, accessories, etc... Does anyone have problems with the ls3 oil pan, or is there another oil pan that fits better/cheaper that would be a good sub since I'm already buying one? Accessories as well?
3. Intake manifold options? Since I'll have to buy one anyways, are there any good alternatives to a ls2,ls1, or ls6 style? People seem awfully proud of stock intakes. I'll likely be staying cathedrial ports on the heads for a budget motor. Holley high ram or mid ram fit under a stock hood? Cheap intakes of ebay? I assume I'll need to run a stock ls3 throttle body.

Lsx Rubi 12-14-2018 12:37 AM

Why don't you look for a LY6 , that way you get a setup pretty close to stock and you get to have have l92 heads to match if you ever decide to swap out iron 6.0 block to a ls3 .

kelsey_canard 12-14-2018 11:36 AM


Originally Posted by Lsx Rubi (Post 20015987)
Why don't you look for a LY6 , that way you get a setup pretty close to stock and you get to have have l92 heads to match if you ever decide to swap out iron 6.0 block to a ls3 .

I'm all for 823's if I can get a good deal on a long block without DOD, but I'm not biased against the cathedrial ports either. So, whichever doesn't matter to me. I'll use the turbo to make the power. Got the trans pulled today, and some of the car stripped down. Will post pictures later.

jordoza 12-14-2018 03:48 PM

The high ram requires cowl cutting to the point you lose the passenger wiper and aftermarket hood. I could take picks if you want of mine to show you what needs to be cut. The medium height ebay intake requires cowl cutting only the lo profile ebay intake fits no cutting and then you lose all your low end torque for driving around.

jordoza 12-14-2018 03:50 PM

Stock ls3 gold blade is the correct tb. The oil pan is the same as the same as the gm muscle car pan unless im mistaken.

jordoza 12-14-2018 03:56 PM

As for driveshaft i have a stock rear to 4l80 i might sell. Oil havent seen anyone do a steel one but i always thought i coukd have shortened the stock one and just put a slip yoke. You could get a steel one made you would just need the rear adapter yoke to fit the rear end. I think the driveshaft shop sells it seperate but i dont know how much. To put a 4l80 you will need an adapter plate and the manual crossmember. I have an adapter plate i could make you a template off of if you want.

Project GatTagO 12-14-2018 05:24 PM


Originally Posted by jordoza (Post 20016215)
Stock ls3 gold blade is the correct tb. The oil pan is the same as the same as the gm muscle car pan unless im mistaken.

I have nothing to add, except to say that the GM "muscle car" pan is from a H3 Alpha (truck pan). The regular crate LS3s come with the 5th gen Camaro pans. I have a friend that just got one (used a F-body pan) and I think he still has the LS3 pan. Shoot me a PM and can put you in touch with him.

Andrew

jordoza 12-15-2018 12:30 PM

I stand corrected maybe it was the holley pan that was the same. I know we had a few pans when we put an ls in my buddys street rod and tested like 5 pans including mine from my maro and one of the aftermarket pans was the same as mine with out a few casting ribs and oil cooler mount i think. Honestly getting the 5th gen pan isnt very expensive and it will for sure fit.

kelsey_canard 01-11-2019 07:48 AM

A few updates:

Getting the shop setup for the car
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...2d31f39d58.jpg


Found a motor on facebook marketplace. 2013 4.8. with less than 100k on it. Tore it down, and verified it was a 4.8.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...994b88b824.jpg

Added a ls3 pan, dipstick, installed motor mounts, and got it ready to go in

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...16f463fb79.jpg

Installed in engine bay
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...a8373cce98.jpg

Found a used ls2 intake local. Ordered a ls3 throttle body. Pic is with the truck rails sitting on the intake. Have a ls3 rail that just showed up today, but no pics. Will still have to decide on what injectors to run.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...2497d39630.jpg


Overall, still in the parts collecting phase. Have decided to just get the car up and going first, then do a th400 swap, and then a turbo build. I lose motivation if I dont see progress and the car ends up sitting on the jackstands for months on end.

rpm-inc 01-11-2019 06:45 PM

Nice. Our projects are very similar with my caprice ppv. I just installed a 5.3 in mine. In my thread, I was informed about the agp camaro turbo adapters that happen to work in a ppv as well. Twin t3's under the car. Throwing this out there if you haven't seen the agp stuff.

panda240ss 01-14-2019 03:11 PM

nice nicee!!! love seeing it come together.

LQ4-E39 01-24-2019 06:12 PM

looks sweet so far! keep it up

Dimeomboost 02-06-2019 07:49 PM

Subscribed starting my own 2012 build its the second one we bought but the first one I bought as a roller with the intent of street style grudge car. Ly6 into a 408 twin Borg 366s th400 etc. Yanked the motor out of her new edge mustang we built to do this car. The 2010 we have with the 6.2 and tvs2300 blower is fun putting around but as a 6speed she can't win races with it

Pro Stock John 02-07-2019 02:45 PM

If you are on FB I can connect you to a buddy in IN who did his own build.....

If you drag race this car, maybe come out soft on a DR or run a slick with stock posi and axles.

I have a high 10 second all motor 5th gen.


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