Let's settle this oil pressure debate..... As I'm about to reinstall this 6.0 after 3 years of service, here's what the bearings look like. This car makes average power (FI speaking) 750rwhp/900tq, and has 50psi oil pressure cold, and about 18psi hot in the summer. There are many who believe you need 85 psi hot in order for a motor to live, and this is proof positive that it's not true. Yes, I understand this somewhat depends on how high you twist your mill, but this motor sees 6800, and that's only sometimes. I just want this to be a data point for those who are concerned with the effects of what's considered to be low oil pressure. Bearings are absolutely immaculate, and are going back into service. In the pics, they look scuffed, but its just some of the top coating that has come off. https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...e73d0afc9a.jpg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...07e049eeb1.jpg |
I've been saying this for years. Oil flow is FAR more important than oil pressure. |
Don't all LS motors, even factory stock always need at least 20w-50 oil, Lucas oil stabilizer to stabilize the unstable oil, a can or two of Slick 50 (the snake oil of snake oils) and at least 125 psi of oil pressure at idle? ...wink wink nudge nudge On a serious note GameOva that's excellent documentation proving the point flow trumps pressure. |
Almost forgot, this bottom end was assembled with Lucas assembly lube, and the car was started with no priming, none whatsoever. That's another myth that is alive and well, the "must prime motor to prevent instant bearing destruction". Just use a healthy coating of assembly lube on all the bearings, bust it off and roll out, it will be fine. |
I still prime it first. Not for the bearings, but to ensure the oil pump is primed and working properly with oil flowing where it's supposed to flow. |
Looks good. What was your clearance? |
Originally Posted by badass68
(Post 20121651)
Looks good. What was your clearance? |
Originally Posted by Game ova
(Post 20121637)
Almost forgot, this bottom end was assembled with Lucas assembly lube, and the car was started with no priming, none whatsoever. That's another myth that is alive and well, the "must prime motor to prevent instant bearing destruction". Just use a healthy coating of assembly lube on all the bearings, bust it off and roll out, it will be fine.
Originally Posted by Game ova
(Post 20121657)
No clue, other than plastiguaging a BBC about 20 years ago, I've never checked clearance. And have yet to have a bottom end come apart on me. |
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...2e4c12a1ba.jpg
Originally Posted by LLLosingit
(Post 20121662)
Sorry but priming is just common sense, Even running for a very short time without pressure even with assembly lube can do some damage. Nobody claims instant bearing destruction but sure can shorten the life lol |
I still recommend priming it though. If you have problem with the pickup, pump, or oil not flowing to the heads, etc... it's best to find that out before the first startup rather than after. That's just my philosophy with everything though. Measure 5 times, cut once. Test, test, test again, and test some more just to be sure, then proceed. |
What is the minimum recommended hot pressure? 18 seems awfully low when up to temps. |
The thrust bearing has always been my concern, since I lost one-I thought there was a newer one on the market, and some use tricks to get better oiling. I don't prime, but do pack the pump with a smear of trans. assemb. grease, aids in startup pressure. Just a thought on Slick 50, I don't use it, but a buddy races karts, usually go thru an engine every race, was told to use Slick 50, he was able to go 2-3 races on the same engine. After break in, I do go old school, dump in a half can of STP, since it sits a lot, helps keep the bearings "moist". |
Originally Posted by Game ova
(Post 20121664)
Not to be argumentative, but the proof is in the pics. If your freshly built motor takes so long to build pressure, that it makes a mess of your bearings, then you've got bigger problems. And this isn't a one off example, like I said, use a good coating this here in the pic...priming is completely unnecessary. |
Game ova, you were running an OEM oil pump on this setup? I've ran Melling high volume and high pressure pumps on past engines. I installed a stock GM oil pump in my current stroker. |
What is your pressure at cruising rpm and high rpms? |
18lbs is fine depending on the weight of oil being used. Maintaining the old Smokey Yunick theory of 10lbs for every thousand rpm is a good base line for added bearing life as is quality oil and changes with good filters. |
Originally Posted by ddnspider
(Post 20121709)
What is the minimum recommended hot pressure? 18 seems awfully low when up to temps.
Originally Posted by forcd ind
(Post 20121711)
The thrust bearing has always been my concern, since I lost one-I thought there was a newer one on the market
Originally Posted by LaBLKv6Z
(Post 20121720)
Game ova, you were running an OEM oil pump on this setup? I've ran Melling high volume and high pressure pumps on past engines. I installed a stock GM oil pump in my current stroker.
Originally Posted by bthomas
(Post 20121750)
What is your pressure at cruising rpm and high rpms? |
Originally Posted by rt338b
(Post 20121759)
18lbs is fine depending on the weight of oil being used. Maintaining the old Smokey Yunick theory of 10lbs for every thousand rpm is a good base line for added bearing life as is quality oil and changes with good filters. |
Originally Posted by ddnspider
(Post 20121709)
What is the minimum recommended hot pressure? 18 seems awfully low when up to temps. More than 20 psi oil pressure at hot idle just robs power and increases the risk of oil aeration with no benefit. Higher oil pressure doesn't correlate to higher flow. The bearing clearance, temperature, pressure from combustion, the oil's viscosity, and the oil's pressure-viscosity coefficient all dictate the flow. Oil pressure is just there to be ready to dump oil into the bearing when the wedge opens up each rotation. It doesn't take much pressure to accomplish this. It needs increase with rpm only because the time to fill the oil wedge gets shorter and shorter with rpm. Unless we're talking about 1000+ hp engine, set the main and rod bearing clearances at .0020-.0025", put a 30 grade oil in it, and sent it. |
Originally Posted by forcd ind
(Post 20121711)
The thrust bearing has always been my concern, since I lost one-I thought there was a newer one on the market, and some use tricks to get better oiling. I don't prime, but do pack the pump with a smear of trans. assemb. grease, aids in startup pressure. Just a thought on Slick 50, I don't use it, but a buddy races karts, usually go thru an engine every race, was told to use Slick 50, he was able to go 2-3 races on the same engine. After break in, I do go old school, dump in a half can of STP, since it sits a lot, helps keep the bearings "moist". Keeping the bearings coated in an oil film for startup protection is the a function of the additive package, not the base oil. ZDDP, MoDTC, polyol esters, alkylated naphthalene, glycolated borates, and polymeric esters (just to name a few) all form polar surface films over parts to protect them when no oil film is present. When you dose the oil up with paraffin wax, you dilute that additive package and only weaken their effectiveness. In general, if you feel like you need to add something to your oil to make it "better," then you need to run a better oil. |
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