Not sure what to tell you, have fun with MS3

 

Find your tuner, discuss your needs with them, and then decide what ecu they can give you the best result with, within your budget.

There are literally dozens of possible options out there.

 

I'm not going to argue I/O - 4I/4O is tight but completely workable.
3. Terminator X ecu doesn't data log, but the 3.5 screen/dash logs to the SD card or you can log directly to a laptop.
4. Holley has advanced tables, which changes everything. Setup a couple inputs, build an advanced table, and you have basic traction control/power mangement. Same with water/meth. Nothing you can't do but it isn't predfined in the software.

Basically the Holley gives up some I/O but comes with a wbo2 and dash/screen.

 

V2 of the Terminator software lets you log inputs from the Pro Dash. So that opens up, 10 more? inputs for the Terminator ecu.

 

Exactly, the latest software releases did add some features, lots of options to meet peoples needs for sure. But I have no reason to convince people to use Holley that are dead set on another ECM. I've used a lot of aftermarket systems and the Holley is very intuitive, if someone wants to use another one then great they will all generally meet peoples needs.

 

The website also states the terminator X does not come with WB02?

I'm not trying to be bias in any way. I was simply listing the facts/features/software VS cost. My point was they cost almost the same and one clearly has more features, better support, and more software options.

I Think the Holley is more user friendly software wise, but has no where near the options and customization offered by the MS3. Spend 2 minutes with the software on both platforms and its very clear. With a Holley I think there are less ways to get in trouble if you don't know what your doing. Also MS gets you on the software. I believe its an additional $50-100 depending on what tuning and logging program you go with.

Also something worth mentioning. Whats with the Holleys having Ignition issues on half the cars they are installed on? Why is it the "junk" D581 square truck coils can light off 2500hp worth of straight M1 at 45psi and half the Holley users have to go blow tons of cash on aftermarket coils to get them to fire at baby boost/power levels? I've only tuned 3 Holley HP setups... all of them had issues with spark blow out. Many don't have the issue either, i'm aware. But look on Yellow Bullet or even here and its very clear somethings up with the Holley's and spark control.

 

you just described the hp or dominator NOT the terminator.
funny how you guys move the goal posts all over the place in favor or your argument.

 

ALL Terminator X kits comes with a wideband. We install, work on and or tune vehicles with holley every day and have never had any spark issues. Have many 1,000+hp holley setups on stock coils and use stock coils 99% of the time. 99% of the time when we get a holley car in with issues its from improper wiring/install and not an actual issue with holley. Have had a ton of race cars come in with the distributor/crank trigger set up wrong (installer error not holley issue) Have a car here now 37 psi on stock coils, ran it on terminator x and now dominator.
We have used almost all the major aftermarket ecu's out there and now only use holley. Most of the time when we see someone bashing holley online its because they dont know how to use it, holley isnt the limiting factor, its 99% of the time the guy holding the laptop that is the limiting factor. So far we have never ran into an issue where holley couldnt do what we wanted to do. Holley is ran in 90-95% of all monster trucks (blown big blocks on M1) and in every prostock car (NA 10,000 rpm big block).

 

Again not bashing Holley in anyway. And yes... thank you for correcting me on the WB02.

Skimming their chart can be misleading. As one quickly looks down the WB02 section and it states NO in big letters and next to it for the HP it states YES in big letters.

So this is what my brain saw...



This is what the truth is...simply saying it doesn't have a 4.2 sensor... It has the new 4.9 which happens to be at the bottom. Again sorry for misleading anyone there. I was just briefly comparing differences. And i have to say thatls a poor chart design by Holley IMO. Most people wouldn't know the difference between sensor brands and wouldn't care. It either has one or it doesn't.




It's reassuring to know you haven't had any issues. That doesn't mean they don't exist. Simply look at any forum, they are filled with ign issues with the Holley (HP mainly). We even called the TECH dept back when the HP first came out and they tried to sell us bigger coils. Said we HAD to run Holley coils! "Tom" their "lead tech" Told us the factory coils didn't have enough power for boost. MANY on YB were told they needed Holley or IGN1 smart coils as well.

The harness is part of the Holley kit. It's "plug and play" So if it's a wiring issue (and the installer isn't completely incompetent ), its a Holley wiring issue... that may or may not be revised and corrected by now? I've known MANY people that have had an issue. Very capable people that have it wired correctly. I'm not saying it isn't a software or configuration issue... I'm saying there was no support form Holley to correct the issue and TONS of people had/have problems with no clear defined answer as to why.

 

The harness is plug n play but wiring the grounds, power, ignition and I/O are not, most of the issues we see are ground related. The more I/O's or more custom stuff the more complex it gets, not as simple as plugging in an engine harness. We have sold and tuned hundreds and hundreds of holley systems and have only had 2 bad ECU's (they had bad batch years ago) other than that we dont see the issues you see online. Its almost always install or tuner error, here are just a couple examples off the top of my head that came into the shop.

Jeep with holley
was at 3 different shops (one did the install) got horrible fuel mileage and ran like crap. The guy called bashing holley and about to see the jeep, issue the whole time was exhaust leak on the O2 sensor bung. We fixed that, new plugs and tuned it ran like new.

Big block race car on methanol....hard to start (had to spray starting fluid), no power
crank trigger and distributor not set correctly
I/O not wired correctly
power and ground not correct
Bad tune

Ford cobrajet race car
Holley not configured correctly
I/O not wired correctly

Turbo camaro
Power and ground not wired correctly

5 C10's
Not wired correctly

Not bashing holleys tech support (they have some awesome people) but we have all our customers call us for support. We have had several people call that holley gave wrong info to and were about to pull holley off because it wouldnt work when it was install or config issues. Not everyone at the tech line is an efi expert. I cant stress enough its usually an install issue with wiring, watch some of devin vanderhoof's videos and see some of the really nice race cars he has come in that looked great but were wired wrong but big name race car shops. We dont see the ignition issues you keep mentioning, see alot of distributors not set correctly but COP unless you get dwell all crazy is pretty flawless. Pretty much everyone we know switched to COP now.
Im not saying holley doesnt have issues, every company, part, efi etc has parts some time but holley has a really low failure rate.

 

He mentioned the MS3 price so I compared it to the equivalently priced Holley ECM, didn't realize that was a big issue.

 

They all come with widebands, otherwise the touted closed loop fueling wouldn't work very well.

The Holley coil issue was from a LONG time ago, like 7.5 years ago and it was fixed 7 years ago. If your having spark issues I blame the tuner or a VERY old firmware, I haven't had any spark issues on Holley and I've done a lot more then 3 cars.

 

I will agree that Holley support is next to useless, but I've also never really needed it. But like you said about MS3 open source forums, you get similar peer support across the forums on Holley as well.

 

They all claim closed loop fueling, but not all supply the sensor. That's a nice bonus as the MS3 requires you to buy a WB02 sensor and software. So add another 250ish on the $1040 price tag.

Do we know what was fixed? What the cause was? I still see and hear issues pop up all the time.

This guys got a Term X he just installed and seems to be having the same "Holley spark issue". I had him gap the plugs down to .015 to "fix" it. Which seems to have done it. When I asked for dwell, he told me there is simply a drop down for "gm coils". Wasn't sure how else to help him.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...tio-boost.html

 

Sounds like he's either using the little screen which I cant stand because it induces so many problems, You need to use a real computer and run the real software especially for the first configuration and fire, after that you can use the screen to monitor. You can certainly adjust dwell in the software, by default the advanced view isn't set for it but its an easy check box change.

 

Spend more than 5 min on any holley related facebook group and if you escape without cancer, you realize how many dumb ways folks can install a relatively easy setup.

 

I avoid facebook entirely, its all cancer

 

unfortunately i actually needed it and they were less than worthless. I made the mistake of ordering my termx from a big store. from now on im buying all my holley stuff from a local vendor/friend that can actually get me help (i hope). holley has a great ecosystem. it might cost a few extra dollars but its all a cohesive system of controllers and displays that really streamlines the build process, just need to make sure you have either good support or be lucky enough to never need it.

 

im sold on the terminater x . should do all i need it to do .

 

That's a hell of a statement? Guys are running 4s on a blow thru carburetor.... What is the point??

He makes solid points... The X offers alot for the money but still lacking functionality

The lack of system logging and math channels is FTL, as is the lack of real injector drivers and being stuck with 4.9 pile