ECU's with boost in mind for 2020
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Teching In
Joined: May 2010
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From: Tacoma, Wa
ECU's with boost in mind for 2020 Hi All -
I've been planning out my LQ4 turbo build for a bit. It's sort of on track and not all that serious yet. Mainly my big block died and I decided to do another LS swap but this time add boost.
It's going into a 1964 C10 and I plan on running a T56 magnum to keep it interesting. I'm considering an S480 or possibly twins.. still needing to read more for what may be better for a daily driven manual transmission truck.
Anyway, I'm, looking at ECU's. I'm not using the stock computer for this. I've done that on another build and I just don't want to again. I've been looking at Holley Terminator X for this swap, but today I came across a 1000HP + corvette video that said it ran ProEFI 128. What the heck is that?! It has some interesting specs, multiple boost control levels, on the fly fuel sensing / changing, and some nice looking traction control (i want this for the 64 to help keep it out of the ditch with boost). I can't seem to find much on Pro EFI, and I did find some quite negative feedback from about 3-5 years ago. Does anyone have experience with this? I'm not going all out, but if there is something better than the holley for like money, let me know.
Said video with all the build and fab **** in it.
Alex
I've been planning out my LQ4 turbo build for a bit. It's sort of on track and not all that serious yet. Mainly my big block died and I decided to do another LS swap but this time add boost.
It's going into a 1964 C10 and I plan on running a T56 magnum to keep it interesting. I'm considering an S480 or possibly twins.. still needing to read more for what may be better for a daily driven manual transmission truck.
Anyway, I'm, looking at ECU's. I'm not using the stock computer for this. I've done that on another build and I just don't want to again. I've been looking at Holley Terminator X for this swap, but today I came across a 1000HP + corvette video that said it ran ProEFI 128. What the heck is that?! It has some interesting specs, multiple boost control levels, on the fly fuel sensing / changing, and some nice looking traction control (i want this for the 64 to help keep it out of the ditch with boost). I can't seem to find much on Pro EFI, and I did find some quite negative feedback from about 3-5 years ago. Does anyone have experience with this? I'm not going all out, but if there is something better than the holley for like money, let me know.
Alex
Well the Holley Terminator is their base base base kit. But will support basically everything you listed that the other ecu does. The HP ecu bring a few more important features... and the dominator system is their top of line ecu .
Personally I would use Holley or MS3. FuelTech is also impressive stuff and I really like their dash.
Personally I would use Holley or MS3. FuelTech is also impressive stuff and I really like their dash.
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Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Florida
i wouldnt use a terminator x for anything beyond the most budget build or if you ONLY want the equivalent of a carb replacement.
the higher end holley and MS3 stuff really isnt that much more money and its worth getting all the extra functionality from the beginning. i currently have a terminator x in my swap car and i fully intend to replace it with a dominator a little later on in the project. it runs and drives great, started fine, etc. its a great ecm. but the second you want to start expanding capabilities, youre out of extra IO, plus theres a bunch of little things holley left out that they dont exactly tell you about. the two off the top of my head that added the most hassle for me is there are no VR inputs and the log software does not support math channels.
the pro-efi stuff is pretty high end, and they offer a 'plug and play' type setup for a c6 that claims to be compatible with the rest of the car's CAN and controls, so everything still works as it should. that really isnt a concern for your build.
the higher end holley and MS3 stuff really isnt that much more money and its worth getting all the extra functionality from the beginning. i currently have a terminator x in my swap car and i fully intend to replace it with a dominator a little later on in the project. it runs and drives great, started fine, etc. its a great ecm. but the second you want to start expanding capabilities, youre out of extra IO, plus theres a bunch of little things holley left out that they dont exactly tell you about. the two off the top of my head that added the most hassle for me is there are no VR inputs and the log software does not support math channels.
the pro-efi stuff is pretty high end, and they offer a 'plug and play' type setup for a c6 that claims to be compatible with the rest of the car's CAN and controls, so everything still works as it should. that really isnt a concern for your build.
i wouldnt use a terminator x for anything beyond the most budget build or if you ONLY want the equivalent of a carb replacement.
the higher end holley and MS3 stuff really isnt that much more money and its worth getting all the extra functionality from the beginning. i currently have a terminator x in my swap car and i fully intend to replace it with a dominator a little later on in the project. it runs and drives great, started fine, etc. its a great ecm. but the second you want to start expanding capabilities, youre out of extra IO, plus theres a bunch of little things holley left out that they dont exactly tell you about. the two off the top of my head that added the most hassle for me is there are no VR inputs and the log software does not support math channels.
the pro-efi stuff is pretty high end, and they offer a 'plug and play' type setup for a c6 that claims to be compatible with the rest of the car's CAN and controls, so everything still works as it should. that really isnt a concern for your build.
the higher end holley and MS3 stuff really isnt that much more money and its worth getting all the extra functionality from the beginning. i currently have a terminator x in my swap car and i fully intend to replace it with a dominator a little later on in the project. it runs and drives great, started fine, etc. its a great ecm. but the second you want to start expanding capabilities, youre out of extra IO, plus theres a bunch of little things holley left out that they dont exactly tell you about. the two off the top of my head that added the most hassle for me is there are no VR inputs and the log software does not support math channels.
the pro-efi stuff is pretty high end, and they offer a 'plug and play' type setup for a c6 that claims to be compatible with the rest of the car's CAN and controls, so everything still works as it should. that really isnt a concern for your build.
Literally 98% of people don’t need that.
So I would say the terminator is perfect for nearly everyone except very few.
I would use the terminator in MOST swaps... then there are those particular situations it just doesn’t “fit” the build.
So I would say the terminator is perfect for nearly everyone except very few.
I would use the terminator in MOST swaps... then there are those particular situations it just doesn’t “fit” the build.
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The Terminator X is definitely the go-to if you don't need a ton of features. Holley also has probably the best PID control for closed loop on the market.
MS3Pro Evo supports native VR inputs, so you can use ABS sensors for speed/traction control. The datalogging software is also far better than Holley.
There are probably a dozen other aftermarket EFI options out there that will work, but I don't think I'd be impressed by the ProEFI for the sole reason that a twin turbo 427 made 1000 HP with it.
MS3Pro Evo supports native VR inputs, so you can use ABS sensors for speed/traction control. The datalogging software is also far better than Holley.
There are probably a dozen other aftermarket EFI options out there that will work, but I don't think I'd be impressed by the ProEFI for the sole reason that a twin turbo 427 made 1000 HP with it.
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If you are looking at big power, the limiting factor to the Terminator X is that is only supports high impedance injectors. In my experience, most of the low cost high impedance injectors are pretty bad. You can of course step up to Injector Dynamics, etc, but they are expensive. By the time you consider all of the parts involved, you are better off to bite the bullet, get a Dominator. It will give you all the inputs and outputs that you will ever need or want, it supports low (the Holley 160s are solid performers)and high impedance injectors, has DBW supporters (which I love) and has auto trans control (I know you don't need it now, but when you decide that shifting gear with a turbo is a pain, you will want a 4L80e).
Andrew
Andrew
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I mean the Proefi didn’t decide what power it would make lol. That setup can make more I’m certain of that but they have it at that power level for a reason I’d assume. Proefi is a great aftermarket ecu option for someone that will utilize all that it offers.
If you are looking at big power, the limiting factor to the Terminator X is that is only supports high impedance injectors. In my experience, most of the low cost high impedance injectors are pretty bad. You can of course step up to Injector Dynamics, etc, but they are expensive. By the time you consider all of the parts involved, you are better off to bite the bullet, get a Dominator. It will give you all the inputs and outputs that you will ever need or want, it supports low (the Holley 160s are solid performers)and high impedance injectors, has DBW supporters (which I love) and has auto trans control (I know you don't need it now, but when you decide that shifting gear with a turbo is a pain, you will want a 4L80e).
Andrew
Andrew
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Yeah, that was my point. Seeing 1000 HP on a twin turbo 427 is clearly not all thanks to the ECU lol.
I'll throw in my .02. Their terminator is similar to a microsquirt with a fancy touch dash. Limited Inputs/outputs and functionality. Not worth the $ over the MS3 IMO. The MS3 price has dropped to be competitive with the terminator and is now $1040 and is a much better deal. Also the Ms3 is "open platform" and constantly being changed and upgraded software wise.I also prefer the support on the MS forums over Holley's support. It's the best deal out there in my experience. And the plug and play fitech stuff is garbage. Basically a buggy version of the Holley Terminator with less features, a difficult interface, and HORRIBLE customer service.
Don't get me wrong I like the Holley line. It's user friendly and well laid out. And if you dont' want all the additional inputs and outputs and a hand held tuner is what your after by all means, go for it. Seems to be a quality product anyway. Just not as many features for your money.
Don't get me wrong I like the Holley line. It's user friendly and well laid out. And if you dont' want all the additional inputs and outputs and a hand held tuner is what your after by all means, go for it. Seems to be a quality product anyway. Just not as many features for your money.
I'll throw in my .02. Their terminator is similar to a microsquirt with a fancy touch dash. Limited Inputs/outputs and functionality. Not worth the $ over the MS3 IMO. The MS3 price has dropped to be competitive with the terminator and is now $1040 and is a much better deal. Also the Ms3 is "open platform" and constantly being changed and upgraded software wise.I also prefer the support on the MS forums over Holley's support. It's the best deal out there in my experience. And the plug and play fitech stuff is garbage. Basically a buggy version of the Holley Terminator with less features, a difficult interface, and HORRIBLE customer service.
Don't get me wrong I like the Holley line. It's user friendly and well laid out. And if you dont' want all the additional inputs and outputs and a hand held tuner is what your after by all means, go for it. Seems to be a quality product anyway. Just not as many features for your money.
Don't get me wrong I like the Holley line. It's user friendly and well laid out. And if you dont' want all the additional inputs and outputs and a hand held tuner is what your after by all means, go for it. Seems to be a quality product anyway. Just not as many features for your money.
I wouldn't confuse FItech and Fuel Tech either as they are on different ends of the planet!
If you are looking at big power, the limiting factor to the Terminator X is that is only supports high impedance injectors. In my experience, most of the low cost high impedance injectors are pretty bad. You can of course step up to Injector Dynamics, etc, but they are expensive. By the time you consider all of the parts involved, you are better off to bite the bullet, get a Dominator. It will give you all the inputs and outputs that you will ever need or want, it supports low (the Holley 160s are solid performers)and high impedance injectors, has DBW supporters (which I love) and has auto trans control (I know you don't need it now, but when you decide that shifting gear with a turbo is a pain, you will want a 4L80e).
Andrew
Andrew
All very good points, we tell people that all the time. Is a terminator x bad ***, yes absolutely but its not in the same league as a dominator. A lot of people are pushing the envelope with terminator or using it for something it really was made for and it works but the dominator opens up a whole world of options. Terminator to dominator is almost like stock ecm to terminator when you upgrade. So far we have never had a customer go from dominator to terminator but have a several go terminator to dominator. Each have their place and are awesome systems.
Its not like any of them are limited on the power you can make, they all have the same logic and safeties, so I'm just curious what you are selling people on.
Major differences I see are.
Just makes no sense to go with a Holley if you are interested in those features IMO
- MS3 has 10 injector and 10 ignition drivers instead of 8. (you can use the additional drivers to PWM control things like boost control, water injection, fans, extra injectors, etc.
- 6 outputs vs Holleys 4
- 7 inputs vs Holleys 4
- Built in USB and SD card (onboard datalogging)
- Software setup for nitrous, boost, water/meth, and traction control is already ready to go on the MS3.
- Then you have the option of CANBUS and a micro squirt for $300. That can give trans control and/or an additional 7 inputs and 7 outputs. 4 wheel speed/VR inputs. While the The 8 channel CANBUS for the Holley is $325…
Just makes no sense to go with a Holley if you are interested in those features IMO
Major differences I see are.
- MS3 has 10 injector and 10 ignition drivers instead of 8. (you can use the additional drivers to PWM control things like boost control, water injection, fans, extra injectors, etc.
- 6 outputs vs Holleys 4
- 7 inputs vs Holleys 4
- Built in USB and SD card (onboard datalogging)
- Software setup for nitrous, boost, water/meth, and traction control is already ready to go on the MS3.
- Then you have the option of CANBUS and a micro squirt for $300. That can give trans control and/or an additional 7 inputs and 7 outputs. 4 wheel speed/VR inputs. While the The 8 channel CANBUS for the Holley is $325…
Doesn't seem like you fully understand what Holley comes with out of the box. Holley can control multiple sets of injectors (I've seen 16 with the possibility of 24 injectors controlled) as well as multiple PWM outputs for boost control (multiple solenoids with C02), as well as controlling an air shifter, bump box, etc. Holley has 4GB onboard datalogging and can also use an SD card for more, not that I have ever needed more then the onboard for logging. Holley has nitrous, boost, water/meth, etc in the default download. It also has multiple forms of traction control depending on if you want to do boost by gear, compare wheel speed/driveshaft speed vs timing, etc... Doesn't seem as limited as you make it out to be.
https://www.holley.com/products/fuel...x_max_ls_kits/
1.) The point is the MS3 comes with 2 additional fuel and spark drivers that the Holley does not. What you can batch fire or make work is besides the point?
2.) What does multiple mean for outputs and inputs? I'm stating facts. The total number Holley has VS the total number MS3 has. I'm looking at Holleys website. It says 4 inputs and 4 outputs for the HP and the Terminator.
3.) Looking at the website it specifically states "external data logging only"
4.) under traction control, and water/meth it states "no" .