Camarogod isn't a bad guy, he made steel tensioners for us ATI dudes back in the day, so he does have some positive background here on LS1tech.
J

 

There is no way you are going to get a kit for $4500 with a turbo and an intercooler, and without the cooler its pointless. And the big positive of the CAS kits are that you get to keep your A/C, power steering, etc. if you want to.

And hey, I might be the biggest *** in the world, but I'm not giving up a manifold, or a set to someone I've never met who is 1000+ miles away -- especially when you offer me a billet e-brake as compensation

 

Some of the above posts tick me right off. First CamaroGod, you make assertations that all the manifolds crack and people have to wrench on these systems and somehow your gonna fix that. First, mine never cracked. I know the reasons some do (TA Cruiser, PM me if you wish) , but thats besides the point. Number 2, I never wrenched on mine, ever, other than to change the tranny which blew on the dyno, and to remove the kit for a head gasket change, at which time I sold it. 3rd, I digitized the header, but reproduction takes a master fabricator as clearances or in millimeters in some areas. It also takes deep pockets to produce these kits BTW.
XJGPN, How do you know two AWESOME kits are coming out... your assuming they will be, your assuming they will not have any issues and your stating it as fact. If your calling the cas kit a log manifold defunct kit, your incorrect, its CAS thats defunct, not the kit itself .... this kit is likely the best quality twin kit produced for the f-body untill we see different. I dont wanna hear about Redline or HP or whatever as they have been promising kits forever..and if they are shipping, no ones bragging yet. Remember the wastegates and BOV used are high quality and cost 1k alone..Decent turbos will run ya about $1200, Intercooler and such is an easy $600, Thats $2800 in hard parts minimum. Then theres the manifolds, downpipes, IC plumbing, silicone, oiling ,and so on. You can't think 3k is a fair price for these systems, or even 4 k for that matter. It takes 7k to consider selling a turbo kit at a profitable level, so if you think a $4500 kit will hit the market and be competitive in quality and performance, I beg to differ and will watch closely. Many of the system out there are very new or brand new, with the exception of Noyzees, and i dont think milage hurts the value of these kits too much. I also dont think that because Picassos paintings are old that they have depreciated from the time they were painted, call me silly.

TA Cruiser, you'll love the kit, especially since your not the one installing it. As Noyzee said, changing 2 of the plugs sucks. If your a stock motor and not forged youll enjoy the feel and should make in the 5's powerwise, but the enemy to any turbo system is backpressure...you shouldnt be using a "y" pipe and a single 3" exhaust, that will hurt ya a bit. I have (on the shlef) my 3"to 4" "y" over the axel system and I felt that was too restrictive for my 409, Noyzee ran true duals to the axel with cut outs. Turbos hate backpressure.

Noyzees car ran great utill he had a problem unrealted to the kit, but sold it in frusteration first thinking he maxed the system. I had my reasons, but I assure you it wasnt the stock type driveability and the power, I said it before and I will again...these log manifolds with my 76/56 mm twins made over 500 rwhp and 500 TQ at, per the dyno 55% percent throttle before the tranny gave out. There was a significantly higher number later, but thats not been brought up for my own reasons.

 

I think jammer said it pretty well

 

Ditto what 69firebird said

 

well I originally wanted to say something whitty and fun, but then I just couldnt think of anything. I feel that Jammer really summed it all up.

jam you the man. And I didnt forget about you, i do not have any more headers
ed

 

Thanks bird, I actually had to edit it so the tone wasn't mis-construed. Turbos make people crazy, like smokin crack crazy. Me included. How do we save our futures.

 

man I really want to know what your car peaked at now, any chance youd share Jam?

 

I cant post a dyno # for which I did not wittness or get a dyno sheet for, its that simple.
I should point out it exceeded what I beleive the maximum limit of the stock pcm was.

I had a pretty serious set up that with a little extra octane saw over 20 lbs of boost without a sweat. I also had one of the best and largest fuel systems (nicely chosen and installed by APE) that I have seen on an LS1. With upgrades like Incolnel valves etc I wasnt afraid to turn the wick up on 2 occassions. I try to judge by speed, not numbers. I've mentioned before I walked on a 10.4 C5... on a highway with 4 people and a truck full of gear in my car, it wasnt ever able to pass me either. This was with the boost below 20lbs and on 93 octane. The top was down and , thinking of this makes me smile...the camera man was a NMRA mustang guy who chose to drop the camera and hold on, so while I have video, its of a dark floor, but sounds cool. In fact, I'll try to post it somehow, but I've never been sucesssful at that.
It never saw the track. Hey Tim,,,, wanna send that kit back?

 

****, man that is awsome, PM me what you think the limits of hte stock PCM are please

 

You are correct. I am making assumptions... but that being said I am talking about 2 of the most respected names in turbo kits. HP motorsports and PTK. The redline kit is a joke... I was not referring to it. Not for nothing, but turbo kits aren't exactly rocket science. There is a right way of doing things, and then there are lots of shortcuts you can take. Finding out that there will be two kits that will come with tubular manifolds that retain all accessories... Yes, I would say that it sounds like there are two kits coming out that are going to be awesome.


Does it not have log manifolds? Is CAS not defunct? I stand by what I said. Without CAS existing any more what you now have is a pile of parts that will allow you to put turbos on your car. If you have any problems, you are on your own to fix them. You get in an accident and need a replacement part... you have to have a replica fabricated. I never said the kit wasn't a great kit... but the fact that your on your own with it, doesn't exactly help its resale value.


Hey, ever venture out from the little LS1 community? There are several very high quality kits for Mustangs that start in price below $4500... Obviously depending on what you go with prices can go up significantly from there... but from a hardware perspective, you can't say that it can't be done. I've built turbo kits from scratch, so I am quite familiar with just how expensive the individual components are... but why don't we try an experiment... go build yourself a Camaro out of parts you buy over the counter at the GM parts department... Using your logic it should cost less than just buying the car complete. Turbo kits built by the larger companies typically cost less than what it would cost to try to replicate it yourself in your garage.


Well that is the dumbest metaphor I have heard in a long time. Comparing a turbo kit to a Picasso? Are you kidding me? A painting is something you hang on a wall... a turbo kit is something with many wearable items that you put into a car and do many things that could cause it to become damaged. Maybe you get into a fender bender and smack up the intercooler.. oh crap, now you need to have a custom one fabbed up and custom piping re-done... not difficult... but now your car is out of commission while you are doing that. Mileage not hurting the values of the kits? Thats a joke. Look, there are a lot of suckers on the internet... so it wouldn't surprise me if some of these kits may sell at inflated prices... but apparently even with all of these suckers, you guys have been sitting on these kits for a while. A comment was made about these kits not selling, and I was just giving you my opinion why they aren't. They are awesome kits... but all things considered... I don't see them being worth much more than $3K, and like I said... due to how much you guys spent on them I more than understand you not wanting to sell them for that. That doesn't change the fact that is all they are worth. I kinda regret getting baited into a flame war here… but you called me out. I stand by my statements 110%. I am sorry if I offended anyone, but I feel that everything I said is valid.

Regards,
Michael Rizzi

 

I was long ago told the limits were in the low 700's, but then again I guess Raymer proved that theory wrong.

The goal with the newer, less agressive set up is to test that theory once again, but thats a tall order considering these rear mount systems are in their infancy. This time I went with even larger turbos than last time, but as we know, heat is energy, and Im losing lotsa energy pushing all that exhaust to the back. Maybe I can install some torches to the exhaust pipe every two feet? Perhaps some type of nuclear fusion. Either way, its C6 with turbos hanging out the hood for me sometime. Like periscopes. Im done. My wife is starting to post little notes everywhere I go, reading "You hate cars, you will not buy a 2 seater". I guess she enjoys our weekly trips to church with the kids in my car, rollbar or not.

 

I,ll respond in Red, Jammer

QUOTE=XJGPN]You are correct. I am making assumptions... but that being said I am talking about 2 of the most respected names in turbo kits. HP motorsports and PTK. Not respected yet in the LS1 world. Proof in the pudding. We have tight spaces unlike some of your quick8 friends...or mine I mean. The redline kit is a joke... I was not referring to it. Not for nothing, but turbo kits aren't exactly rocket science. There is a right way of doing things, and then there are lots of shortcuts you can take. Finding out that there will be two kits that will come with tubular manifolds that retain all accessories... Yes, I would say that it sounds like there are two kits coming out that are going to be awesome. Awesome, maybe, here yet...no...$4500 complete twin kits ...no




Does it not have log manifolds? Is CAS not defunct? I stand by what I said. Than your wrong by semantics... Cas is defunct, the kit is not, get a dictionary, the kit , if operational, is not defunct. This was an edited portion of my origional statement, so I agree the sentence was not all that mystical. Without CAS existing any more what you now have is a pile of parts that will allow you to put turbos on your car. If you have any problems, you are on your own to fix them. Us LS1 guys come to understand we are often on our own when we get into turbo kits, call that a learning curve. You get in an accident and need a replacement part... you have to have a replica fabricated. I never said the kit wasn't a great kit... but the fact that your on your own with it, doesn't exactly help its resale value. I disagree, Like Incon kits, I beleive the value stays high... and CAS being defunct may keep the value up, not make it drop, due to lack of ability to buy a new one.




Hey, ever venture out from the little LS1 community? Ok , your cool. There are several very high quality kits for Mustangs that start in price below $4500... Obviously depending on what you go with prices can go up significantly from there... but from a hardware perspective, you can't say that it can't be done. This aint no mustang, period. I've built turbo kits from scratch,
so I am quite familiar with just how expensive the individual components are... but why don't we try an experiment... go build yourself a Camaro out of parts you buy over the counter at the GM parts department... Using your logic it should cost less than just buying the car complete. This is not mass production, no turbo kit manufacturers make enough now, nor ever will, to get the peripherials on the real cheap (LS1) Turbo kits built by the larger companies typically cost less than what it would cost to try to replicate it yourself in your garage. Hey, we agree




Well that is the dumbest metaphor I have heard in a long time. And you had to take it seriously... Comparing a turbo kit to a Picasso? Are you kidding me? A painting is something you hang on a wall... a turbo kit is something with many wearable items that you put into a car and do many things that could cause it to become damaged. Maybe you get into a fender bender and smack up the intercooler.. oh crap, now you need to have a custom one fabbed up and custom piping re-done... not difficult... but now your car is out of commission while you are doing that. You must get into alot of accidents, you keep referring to them , back to my origional point, most of us LS1 turbo guys have accepted the "your alone" feeling. If I had a mustang, I'd expect more, but I dont. Mileage not hurting the values of the kits? Thats a joke. High milage and age yes, the case I was referring to was Noyzees, which is probably the kit with the most miles, and its barely used when we consider overall milage. Look, there are a lot of suckers on the internet... so it wouldn't surprise me if some of these kits may sell at inflated prices... dont get mad when they pass you but apparently even with all of these suckers, you guys have been sitting on these kits for a while. Limited audience with an F-body crowd, you think the majority of F-body owners have real deep pockets?? This aint a C5 or exotic forum, it take $, you should understand that...A comment was made about these kits not selling, and I was just giving you my opinion why they aren't. They are awesome kits... but all things considered... I don't see them being worth much more than $3K, and like I said... due to how much you guys spent on them I more than understand you not wanting to sell them for that. I understand where your coming from, I just think they are worth what people are willing to pay considering their options...Economics 101 That doesn't change the fact that is all they are worth. Yes it does. I kinda regret getting baited into a flame war here… but you called me out. You want to race? This could be another one of those internet hits the street fun weekends, were not that far away... he'll its why were here anyway right? I stand by my statements 110%. I am sorry if I offended anyone, but I feel that everything I said is valid. So do liberals.

Regards,
Michael Rizzi[/QUOTE]Thanks for your time. In America we have the right to disagree...its been fun, now lets all go back to work and be productive.

 

Okay genius… if I’m like a highschooler… SCHOOL ME. Tell me what I have said that is factually inaccurate. If you want to drop it, then drop it. If you take issue with what I have said, take issue with it… But don’t be a child and call me names and say that it isn’t worth dignifying with a response. Be a man about it. If you know something that I don’t, then SAY IT.

Regards,
Michael Rizzi

 

Feel better?

Honestly, not here to argue or cause hard feelings, I know its a little late for that, but quite frankly were each just expressing our feelings... and since we each beleive what were saying, it can get emotional or heated. I understand your point, I happen to disagree with some of them, but thats just life.
Thanks for playing along, lets not start a riot. I respect your knowledge and abilities as I've followed several of your previous posts in the past.
J

 

Actually, yes. I don't mind someone having different views than me. I think we both made our points, I still disagree with you, but we both made our points. I just take issue with the blind insults... You don't know me, you've never met me... keep it to the issues. Plus, like you said, we do live relatively close... I'm sure we'll meet at the track someday. So, till then .

Regards,
Michael Rizzi

PS- Racing me wouldn't be much fun, my fab skills far surpass my driving skills.

 

Just finished my post and saw this edit. I appreciate the kind words. I'm definately happy we wrapped this up the way we did :-)

 

LOL, it was something to talk about anyway. Heres some fab work we in albany have been up to. Friends Nova swap project. Hasd a thread up in the past but it dissappeared.

 

looks crazy

 

my kit was one of the only kits that pushed them, i had it for a true test of time. i prety much perfected that kit, when i had it on my car the FI section was made up of about 20 cars!!!! if i knew then what i know now, the kit probably would still be on my car and making close to 700 rwhp! the cracking got better in time, so my opinion is my kit will hold up better then a new kit because the headers are now where they want to be, i found that every time i pulled them, the cracking was better and better.
cas was the issue, not the kit.
good luck to you with your endevore.
Jammer, your an *** hole, thats why i love you man