NGK R5671A-8...stocking number 4554 vs TR6 ?
06-30-2006, 02:26 PM
#21
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Cant say that I do, or indeed thousands of others do.
The concept of a cooler plug is to prevent the damn tip from glowing/melting and causing pre-ignition.
A plug only needs to run hot enough to remain clean. The Platinum seems to work in Subaru engines. Last one I helped build is making around 600bhp on a T60. They are working fine there.
Platinum plugs spark better, and last longer.
What specific reasons do you have to say they arent a performance plug ??? Virtually every "import" motor runs them, and many other forced induction cars use them.
Until I see some evidence that running a colder plug than is necessary will actually yield more power....I remain un-convinced.
The concept of a cooler plug is to prevent the damn tip from glowing/melting and causing pre-ignition.
A plug only needs to run hot enough to remain clean. The Platinum seems to work in Subaru engines. Last one I helped build is making around 600bhp on a T60. They are working fine there.
Platinum plugs spark better, and last longer.
What specific reasons do you have to say they arent a performance plug ??? Virtually every "import" motor runs them, and many other forced induction cars use them.
Until I see some evidence that running a colder plug than is necessary will actually yield more power....I remain un-convinced.
06-30-2006, 02:31 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by stevieturbo
Cant say that I do, or indeed thousands of others do.
The concept of a cooler plug is to prevent the damn tip from glowing/melting and causing pre-ignition.
A plug only needs to run hot enough to remain clean. The Platinum seems to work in Subaru engines. Last one I helped build is making around 600bhp on a T60. They are working fine there.
Platinum plugs spark better, and last longer.
What specific reasons do you have to say they arent a performance plug ??? Virtually every "import" motor runs them, and many other forced induction cars use them.
Until I see some evidence that running a colder plug than is necessary will actually yield more power....I remain un-convinced.
The concept of a cooler plug is to prevent the damn tip from glowing/melting and causing pre-ignition.
A plug only needs to run hot enough to remain clean. The Platinum seems to work in Subaru engines. Last one I helped build is making around 600bhp on a T60. They are working fine there.
Platinum plugs spark better, and last longer.
What specific reasons do you have to say they arent a performance plug ??? Virtually every "import" motor runs them, and many other forced induction cars use them.
Until I see some evidence that running a colder plug than is necessary will actually yield more power....I remain un-convinced.
Platinum flakes off under extreme conditions and break apart. NOT ideal by any means. Top Fuelers run platinum? Platinum is for economy. im talking about making power. not burn the least amount of fuel.
Im not saying that they dont work...Just trying to shed some light on BETTER alternatives. Have you ever tried to gap a platinum plug before? They BREAK!
06-30-2006, 02:35 PM
#23
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Originally Posted by stevieturbo
Cant say that I do, or indeed thousands of others do.
The concept of a cooler plug is to prevent the damn tip from glowing/melting and causing pre-ignition.
A plug only needs to run hot enough to remain clean. The Platinum seems to work in Subaru engines. Last one I helped build is making around 600bhp on a T60. They are working fine there.
Platinum plugs spark better, and last longer.
What specific reasons do you have to say they arent a performance plug ??? Virtually every "import" motor runs them, and many other forced induction cars use them.
Until I see some evidence that running a colder plug than is necessary will actually yield more power....I remain un-convinced.
The concept of a cooler plug is to prevent the damn tip from glowing/melting and causing pre-ignition.
A plug only needs to run hot enough to remain clean. The Platinum seems to work in Subaru engines. Last one I helped build is making around 600bhp on a T60. They are working fine there.
Platinum plugs spark better, and last longer.
What specific reasons do you have to say they arent a performance plug ??? Virtually every "import" motor runs them, and many other forced induction cars use them.
Until I see some evidence that running a colder plug than is necessary will actually yield more power....I remain un-convinced.
Ignorance is bliss.
A colder heat range is necessary when the engine is modified for performance, subjected to heavy loads, or is run at a high rpm for a significant period of time. Colder spark plugs remove heat quicker, reducing the chance of pre-ignition/detonation. Failure to use a cooler heat range in a modified application can lead to spark plug failure and severe engine damage.
06-30-2006, 02:39 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by 1936FordPU
Ignorance is bliss.
A colder heat range is necessary when the engine is modified for performance, subjected to heavy loads, or is run at a high rpm for a significant period of time. Colder spark plugs remove heat quicker, reducing the chance of pre-ignition/detonation. Failure to use a cooler heat range in a modified application can lead to spark plug failure and severe engine damage.
A colder heat range is necessary when the engine is modified for performance, subjected to heavy loads, or is run at a high rpm for a significant period of time. Colder spark plugs remove heat quicker, reducing the chance of pre-ignition/detonation. Failure to use a cooler heat range in a modified application can lead to spark plug failure and severe engine damage.
more..
Higher Compression Ratios/Forced Induction will elevate spark plug tip and in-cylinder temperatures
* Compression can be increased by performing any one of the following modifications:
a) reducing combustion chamber volume (i.e.: domed pistons, smaller chamber heads, mill ing heads, etc.)
b) adding forced induction (Nitrous, Turbocharging or Supercharging)
c) camshaft change
* As compression increases, a colder heat range plug, higher fuel octane, and careful attention to ignition timing and air/fuel ratios are necessary. Failure to select a colder spark plug can lead to spark plug/engine damage
Advancing Ignition Timing
* Advancing ignition timing by 10° causes tip temperature to increase by approx. 70°-100° C
Engine Speed and Load
* Increases in firing-end temperature are proportional to engine speed and load. When traveling at a consistent high rate of speed, or carrying/pushing very heavy loads, a colder heat range spark plug should be installed
Ambient Air Temperature
* As air temperature falls, air density/air volume becomes greater, resulting in leaner air/fuel mixtures.
* This creates higher cylinder pressures/temperatures and causes an increase in the spark plug's tip temperature. So, fuel delivery should be increased.
* As temperature increases, air density decreases, as does intake volume, fuel delivery should be decreased
Humidity
* As humidity increases, air intake volume decreases
* Result is lower combustion pressures and temperatures, causing a decrease in the spark plug's temperature and a reduction in available power.
* Air/fuel mixture should be leaner, depending upon ambient temperature.
Barometric Pressure/Altitude
* Also affects the spark plug's tip temperature
* The higher the altitude, the lower cylinder pressure becomes. As the cylinder temperature decreases, so does the plugs tip temperature
* Many mechanics attempt to "chase" tuning by changing spark plug heat ranges
* The real answer is to adjust air/fuel mixtures by rejetting in an effort to put more air back into the engine
06-30-2006, 02:41 PM
#25
9 Second Club
Cant say ive ever broke a platinum plug before, aside from dropping it on the floor, and Ive used/fitted hundreds of them.
The steel protrusion that the platinum tip is mounted on, is the same as any other plug ( some racing plugs and surface discharge aside ) You should never have any need to touch the more fragile centre tip, except with a feeler blade or other gap measureing tool.
Use a proper gapping tool to bend it, and I cant see why it would ever break ???
Precious metals conduct better, and have a longer service life. I dont see why that could be considered a bad thing.
Copper plugs are cheap...and can work just as good in many cases, but will need replaced more frequently.
The steel protrusion that the platinum tip is mounted on, is the same as any other plug ( some racing plugs and surface discharge aside ) You should never have any need to touch the more fragile centre tip, except with a feeler blade or other gap measureing tool.
Use a proper gapping tool to bend it, and I cant see why it would ever break ???
Precious metals conduct better, and have a longer service life. I dont see why that could be considered a bad thing.
Copper plugs are cheap...and can work just as good in many cases, but will need replaced more frequently.
06-30-2006, 02:41 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by 1936FordPU
more..
Higher Compression Ratios/Forced Induction will elevate spark plug tip and in-cylinder temperatures
* Compression can be increased by performing any one of the following modifications:
a) reducing combustion chamber volume (i.e.: domed pistons, smaller chamber heads, mill ing heads, etc.)
b) adding forced induction (Nitrous, Turbocharging or Supercharging)
c) camshaft change
* As compression increases, a colder heat range plug, higher fuel octane, and careful attention to ignition timing and air/fuel ratios are necessary. Failure to select a colder spark plug can lead to spark plug/engine damage
Advancing Ignition Timing
* Advancing ignition timing by 10° causes tip temperature to increase by approx. 70°-100° C
Engine Speed and Load
* Increases in firing-end temperature are proportional to engine speed and load. When traveling at a consistent high rate of speed, or carrying/pushing very heavy loads, a colder heat range spark plug should be installed
Ambient Air Temperature
* As air temperature falls, air density/air volume becomes greater, resulting in leaner air/fuel mixtures.
* This creates higher cylinder pressures/temperatures and causes an increase in the spark plug's tip temperature. So, fuel delivery should be increased.
* As temperature increases, air density decreases, as does intake volume, fuel delivery should be decreased
Humidity
* As humidity increases, air intake volume decreases
* Result is lower combustion pressures and temperatures, causing a decrease in the spark plug's temperature and a reduction in available power.
* Air/fuel mixture should be leaner, depending upon ambient temperature.
Barometric Pressure/Altitude
* Also affects the spark plug's tip temperature
* The higher the altitude, the lower cylinder pressure becomes. As the cylinder temperature decreases, so does the plugs tip temperature
* Many mechanics attempt to "chase" tuning by changing spark plug heat ranges
* The real answer is to adjust air/fuel mixtures by rejetting in an effort to put more air back into the engine
Higher Compression Ratios/Forced Induction will elevate spark plug tip and in-cylinder temperatures
* Compression can be increased by performing any one of the following modifications:
a) reducing combustion chamber volume (i.e.: domed pistons, smaller chamber heads, mill ing heads, etc.)
b) adding forced induction (Nitrous, Turbocharging or Supercharging)
c) camshaft change
* As compression increases, a colder heat range plug, higher fuel octane, and careful attention to ignition timing and air/fuel ratios are necessary. Failure to select a colder spark plug can lead to spark plug/engine damage
Advancing Ignition Timing
* Advancing ignition timing by 10° causes tip temperature to increase by approx. 70°-100° C
Engine Speed and Load
* Increases in firing-end temperature are proportional to engine speed and load. When traveling at a consistent high rate of speed, or carrying/pushing very heavy loads, a colder heat range spark plug should be installed
Ambient Air Temperature
* As air temperature falls, air density/air volume becomes greater, resulting in leaner air/fuel mixtures.
* This creates higher cylinder pressures/temperatures and causes an increase in the spark plug's tip temperature. So, fuel delivery should be increased.
* As temperature increases, air density decreases, as does intake volume, fuel delivery should be decreased
Humidity
* As humidity increases, air intake volume decreases
* Result is lower combustion pressures and temperatures, causing a decrease in the spark plug's temperature and a reduction in available power.
* Air/fuel mixture should be leaner, depending upon ambient temperature.
Barometric Pressure/Altitude
* Also affects the spark plug's tip temperature
* The higher the altitude, the lower cylinder pressure becomes. As the cylinder temperature decreases, so does the plugs tip temperature
* Many mechanics attempt to "chase" tuning by changing spark plug heat ranges
* The real answer is to adjust air/fuel mixtures by rejetting in an effort to put more air back into the engine
And a picture to use as an AID...
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/images/...ngflowpath.gif
06-30-2006, 02:43 PM
#27
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Originally Posted by stevieturbo
Cant say ive ever broke a platinum plug before, aside from dropping it on the floor, and Ive used/fitted hundreds of them.
The steel protrusion that the platinum tip is mounted on, is the same as any other plug ( some racing plugs and surface discharge aside ) You should never have any need to touch the more fragile centre tip, except with a feeler blade or other gap measureing tool.
Use a proper gapping tool to bend it, and I cant see why it would ever break ???
Precious metals conduct better, and have a longer service life. I dont see why that could be considered a bad thing.
Copper plugs are cheap...and can work just as good in many cases, but will need replaced more frequently.
The steel protrusion that the platinum tip is mounted on, is the same as any other plug ( some racing plugs and surface discharge aside ) You should never have any need to touch the more fragile centre tip, except with a feeler blade or other gap measureing tool.
Use a proper gapping tool to bend it, and I cant see why it would ever break ???
Precious metals conduct better, and have a longer service life. I dont see why that could be considered a bad thing.
Copper plugs are cheap...and can work just as good in many cases, but will need replaced more frequently.
Explain that to your engine builder. You are really clueless.
06-30-2006, 02:45 PM
#28
9 Second Club
I am my engine builder, and I'm not the one breaking plugs whilst gapping them.
Your methodology simply sounds like you want to run the coldest plug available that will scew in the hole.. That makes no sense.
I guess we will just agree to disagree....until either of us can show back to back testing and proof.
Which isnt something I can easily do.
Your methodology simply sounds like you want to run the coldest plug available that will scew in the hole.. That makes no sense.
I guess we will just agree to disagree....until either of us can show back to back testing and proof.
Which isnt something I can easily do.
06-30-2006, 02:52 PM
#29
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Originally Posted by stevieturbo
I am my engine builder, and I'm not the one breaking plugs whilst gapping them.
Your methodology simply sounds like you want to run the coldest plug available that will scew in the hole.. That makes no sense.
I guess we will just agree to disagree....until either of us can show back to back testing and proof.
Which isnt something I can easily do.
Your methodology simply sounds like you want to run the coldest plug available that will scew in the hole.. That makes no sense.
I guess we will just agree to disagree....until either of us can show back to back testing and proof.
Which isnt something I can easily do.
Can you open the gap for me on my Bosch +4's? If so, where can i send them from my Honda?
As far as my gains on testing them.
I watched my car climb from 353rwhp cam only nitrous grind, to 396 rwhp with header tube changes and colder plugs. Each pass gained more and more power after the header swap. Header swap alone netted me 22rwhp going from straight 1 3/4 to a stepped design. the rest was from spark plug tuning.
No I wont run the coldest possible plug. Whatever gets the heat on all the threads of my spark plug body is what i use. I nice even heat range. Remember plugs are HEAT exchangers.
06-30-2006, 03:08 PM
#30
9 Second Club
Personally I think Bosch plugs suck. I wouldnt use them on any car.
Multiple electrode plugs are for service life only. Nothing more.
I watched my car go to 735.9rwhp on a hub dyno on pump fuel only with TR6 plugs. I didnt think that was too bad, although I didnt try any other plugs
But as I say, after this weekend I will be trying the PFR7B's whether anyone else reccomends them or not.
Even precious metal plugs still use a copper central core. The precious metal only refers to the tips, where sparking actually occurs.
Multiple electrode plugs are for service life only. Nothing more.
I watched my car go to 735.9rwhp on a hub dyno on pump fuel only with TR6 plugs. I didnt think that was too bad, although I didnt try any other plugs
But as I say, after this weekend I will be trying the PFR7B's whether anyone else reccomends them or not.
Originally Posted by 1936FordPU
Copper is a better conductor of heat..
Have you ever tried to gap a platinum plug before? They BREAK!
Have you ever tried to gap a platinum plug before? They BREAK!
Even precious metal plugs still use a copper central core. The precious metal only refers to the tips, where sparking actually occurs.
06-30-2006, 03:17 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by stevieturbo
Personally I think Bosch plugs suck. I wouldnt use them on any car.
Multiple electrode plugs are for service life only. Nothing more.
I watched my car go to 735.9rwhp on a hub dyno on pump fuel only with TR6 plugs. I didnt think that was too bad, although I didnt try any other plugs
But as I say, after this weekend I will be trying the PFR7B's whether anyone else reccomends them or not.
Even precious metal plugs still use a copper central core. The precious metal only refers to the tips, where sparking actually occurs.
Multiple electrode plugs are for service life only. Nothing more.
I watched my car go to 735.9rwhp on a hub dyno on pump fuel only with TR6 plugs. I didnt think that was too bad, although I didnt try any other plugs
But as I say, after this weekend I will be trying the PFR7B's whether anyone else reccomends them or not.
Even precious metal plugs still use a copper central core. The precious metal only refers to the tips, where sparking actually occurs.
