Firehawk that we built an LS2 for last year is now going to get an APS twin turbo kit
08-07-2007, 09:35 AM
#1
Firehawk that we built an LS2 for last year is now going to get an APS twin turbo kit http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com...Car.php?car=39
We made 450 rwhp/469 torque N/A with this car last year, which surprised us as this engine was built for power below 5000 rpm.
Tony Mamo from AFR helped out last year with the porting, here was what he had to say.
"Owner doesn't post on Tech so I thought I would share this rather unorthodox combination that really worked out extremely well.
Customers goal was to make as much power and torque from idle to 5000 RPM's, with upper RPM horsepower a very secondary concern. This was an exercise in building the ultimate SOTP pump gas 402 essentially. Of course everyone likes to see a decent power figure so we opted to port a FAST 78 intake to keep costs down (he already had a ported factory TB) and also I recommended opening up the combustion chambers of the 205's to better take advantage of the larger 4" bore whiched helped increase the low and midlift airflow for even better breathing (still retaining the small ports for high velocity enhancing low RPM and part throttle TQ). Note the gains in low and midlift flow also helped the engine "hang on" long after the smaller cam with this displacement should have signed off. It practically carries peak power for 1000 RPM and is still making a decent number as late as 6600! Honestly, the numbers came in exactly where I hoped, but the way the top end charge hung on surpassed my expectations. Plus, I really wasnt focusing at all on optimizing this combo past 5500....although some of the decisions I made aided both peak and area under the curve power which this combo was really being aimed at. The owner rarely races and was looking for a daily driver stump puller that would also hold its own if an occasional opportunity presented itself.
The guys at EPP did an excellent job with the install and tune, not to mention took the time to document and take pictures of the whole process. I highly encourage you guys to take a look at all the pics and documentation of this build which you would be directed to in the link above.
Toward the bottom of all the EPP pics and information is the dyno sheet and then a comparison to his 346 which ran the exact same 205 heads (sans the chamber work) and of course a small cam somewhere in the mid teens @ .050. The overlay of the two graghs is the very meaning of "area under the curve" and simply has to be seen. Also, from what I hear from the guys at EPP who drove this car and the owner himself, the part throttle surge is incredible. Tim (the owner) tells me you can come around a slow corner in third at low RPM and give it a little gas and the car just starts to haul booty.
I would have loved to seen this car on a typical DynoJet....my guess is 500 ft/lbs/ 480 HP....not to mention these numbers are thru a power robbing 4.10 Moser 12 bolt.
Bob....anyway of posting the dyno curve and the overlay in this thread directly? I'm sure alot of people would like to see it that might be too lazy to start clicking on the links etc.
Hope you guys enjoy the info....Im sure this exercise gives more than a few of us some things to think about. You dont need a big cam to make big power....just a well thought out combination with the right parts and taking the time to hit the details. (But I certainly would have liked to see what 20 more degrees of intake and exhaust duration would have brought to the table!!....LOL). Maybe CTM (Cap'n Torque Master) will untie my hands a little next year and be in search of more of the all mighty high RPM ponies. It will start with a face like this.... and a nagging thought in the back of his head that says....what if we added 5 or 10 more degrees of duration....what if I swapped my 78 for a 90 mm FAST.....
Gotta love the mod bug!
Regards to all,
Tony M.
PS....Although Tim already had a set of long tubes I suggested (strongly....LOL) that he purchase the 1.75 QTP's with the merge collecters. I honestly feel these are one of the best headers on the market currently for an F-Body....especially a 346 or a larger motor that wants to place an emphasis on low and midrange power which is obviously the case here. I'm confident that header was a contributing factor which helped us achieve the results we did.It will be interesting to see how much more power we get with the APS twin tubo kit. This car should end up being a real torque monster."
It will be interesting to see what this engine produces with the APS Twin Turbo Kit! I will post up results just as soon as get get the kit installed. Bob
Initial dynop graph just up to 4500 rpm! Wow!!!
We made 450 rwhp/469 torque N/A with this car last year, which surprised us as this engine was built for power below 5000 rpm.
Tony Mamo from AFR helped out last year with the porting, here was what he had to say.
"Owner doesn't post on Tech so I thought I would share this rather unorthodox combination that really worked out extremely well.
Customers goal was to make as much power and torque from idle to 5000 RPM's, with upper RPM horsepower a very secondary concern. This was an exercise in building the ultimate SOTP pump gas 402 essentially. Of course everyone likes to see a decent power figure so we opted to port a FAST 78 intake to keep costs down (he already had a ported factory TB) and also I recommended opening up the combustion chambers of the 205's to better take advantage of the larger 4" bore whiched helped increase the low and midlift airflow for even better breathing (still retaining the small ports for high velocity enhancing low RPM and part throttle TQ). Note the gains in low and midlift flow also helped the engine "hang on" long after the smaller cam with this displacement should have signed off. It practically carries peak power for 1000 RPM and is still making a decent number as late as 6600! Honestly, the numbers came in exactly where I hoped, but the way the top end charge hung on surpassed my expectations. Plus, I really wasnt focusing at all on optimizing this combo past 5500....although some of the decisions I made aided both peak and area under the curve power which this combo was really being aimed at. The owner rarely races and was looking for a daily driver stump puller that would also hold its own if an occasional opportunity presented itself.
The guys at EPP did an excellent job with the install and tune, not to mention took the time to document and take pictures of the whole process. I highly encourage you guys to take a look at all the pics and documentation of this build which you would be directed to in the link above.
Toward the bottom of all the EPP pics and information is the dyno sheet and then a comparison to his 346 which ran the exact same 205 heads (sans the chamber work) and of course a small cam somewhere in the mid teens @ .050. The overlay of the two graghs is the very meaning of "area under the curve" and simply has to be seen. Also, from what I hear from the guys at EPP who drove this car and the owner himself, the part throttle surge is incredible. Tim (the owner) tells me you can come around a slow corner in third at low RPM and give it a little gas and the car just starts to haul booty.
I would have loved to seen this car on a typical DynoJet....my guess is 500 ft/lbs/ 480 HP....not to mention these numbers are thru a power robbing 4.10 Moser 12 bolt.
Bob....anyway of posting the dyno curve and the overlay in this thread directly? I'm sure alot of people would like to see it that might be too lazy to start clicking on the links etc.
Hope you guys enjoy the info....Im sure this exercise gives more than a few of us some things to think about. You dont need a big cam to make big power....just a well thought out combination with the right parts and taking the time to hit the details. (But I certainly would have liked to see what 20 more degrees of intake and exhaust duration would have brought to the table!!....LOL). Maybe CTM (Cap'n Torque Master) will untie my hands a little next year and be in search of more of the all mighty high RPM ponies. It will start with a face like this.... and a nagging thought in the back of his head that says....what if we added 5 or 10 more degrees of duration....what if I swapped my 78 for a 90 mm FAST.....
Gotta love the mod bug!
Regards to all,
Tony M.
PS....Although Tim already had a set of long tubes I suggested (strongly....LOL) that he purchase the 1.75 QTP's with the merge collecters. I honestly feel these are one of the best headers on the market currently for an F-Body....especially a 346 or a larger motor that wants to place an emphasis on low and midrange power which is obviously the case here. I'm confident that header was a contributing factor which helped us achieve the results we did.It will be interesting to see how much more power we get with the APS twin tubo kit. This car should end up being a real torque monster."
It will be interesting to see what this engine produces with the APS Twin Turbo Kit! I will post up results just as soon as get get the kit installed. Bob
Initial dynop graph just up to 4500 rpm! Wow!!!
Last edited by Exotic Performance Plus; 09-13-2007 at 07:21 AM.
08-07-2007, 11:44 AM
#3
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Wow, that car is going to be a bad ****. I am really excited to see how that turns out, cause i am looking to do the same exact setup as that customer's car. I am looking to do A forged low compression LS2 402 with the 12 bolt, the new trans, and the APS Twin Turbo setup. That thing should be ableto blow away almost anything on the road it encounters.
08-08-2007, 05:15 AM
#6
Originally Posted by redbanditz28
How long until the customer has the system installed?
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08-08-2007, 06:18 PM
#8
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Originally Posted by Exotic Performance Plus
It depends on how soon we get the APS twin turbo kit for the car. The customer is ready just as soon as it shows up, and hopefully we will be as well. I'll make sure we are... Bob
Peter
08-09-2007, 04:21 AM
#10
Originally Posted by peter@aps
Bob, APS will start shipping F body twin turbo systems today so I expect you will see the F body twin turbo system within 4 to 5 days from now...............let the fun begin!
Peter
Peter
That is awesome! Tim, you better get ready for a road trip! Bob
08-09-2007, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Exotic Performance Plus
No, I didn't post this several weeks ago. Sorry, but you might be crazy. lol Bob
08-09-2007, 04:36 PM
#13
Originally Posted by 2002 Trans Am
phewww, thought I had magical powers and could see into the future. Turns out you wrote about it on 8-6 in the dyno section...ok so it was a few days ago and not a few weeks ago, I am semi crazy
Bob
08-09-2007, 04:40 PM
#14
Originally Posted by venom ws7
Nice Bob that thing is gonna be TQ Monster.
What is the CR Of the engine and how much Boost are you guys planning to run?
What is the CR Of the engine and how much Boost are you guys planning to run?
We are going to use methanol injection to see just how much boost we can make it live on without knocking. When we built this engine, it obviously wasn't built with boost in mind. The customer wanted a high torque N/A car. Considering stock LS2 engines are at 10.9/1, I think with methanol we should be able to get 10 to 12 psi out of it. I'd like to see more, but we want to be able to keep this car on 93 octane with methanol, and with maybe the addition of Torco octane booster. Bob
08-09-2007, 10:28 PM
#16
Originally Posted by Exotic Performance Plus
Yes it is! The compression ratio is at a very boost friendly 11.0/1 ratio. lol
We are going to use methanol injection to see just how much boost we can make it live on without knocking. When we built this engine, it obviously wasn't built with boost in mind. The customer wanted a high torque N/A car. Considering stock LS2 engines are at 10.9/1, I think with methanol we should be able to get 10 to 12 psi out of it. I'd like to see more, but we want to be able to keep this car on 93 octane with methanol, and with maybe the addition of Torco octane booster. Bob
We are going to use methanol injection to see just how much boost we can make it live on without knocking. When we built this engine, it obviously wasn't built with boost in mind. The customer wanted a high torque N/A car. Considering stock LS2 engines are at 10.9/1, I think with methanol we should be able to get 10 to 12 psi out of it. I'd like to see more, but we want to be able to keep this car on 93 octane with methanol, and with maybe the addition of Torco octane booster. Bob
The car will be awesome power EVERYWHERE.Keep us updated Bob and good luck.
