want to switch to fuel injection from carb
07-11-2016, 12:26 AM
#1
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want to switch to fuel injection from carb Motor is a 6.0. Been thinking about switching to fuel inject. Currently have a carb setup with a carb intake. I have no idea what i need though. Would it be easier/cheaper to keep my carb style intake and run an appropriate style throttle body or easier tonget a stock style ls intake and throttle body? I want bare minimum of what i NEED to make this work. I see the stock truck intake has a bunch of coolant hoses or something and lines all over the place. Dont want all that if its not needed. Also need help with ecu and which harness to go with. Car is a 66 el camino by the way. Th350 trans
07-11-2016, 06:22 AM
#2
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Just buy all of the stock fuel injected parts that originally came with the engine.
Intake, rails, injectors, sensors, throttle body, throttle cable, harness, ECU, fuel pump. Those are the minimum required things you need. Truck intake/rails/injectors/throttle body can be had for less than $100. Truck harness and ECU can probably be found for $150 or less.
An intake with return style fuel rails will already have the regulator mounted on it.
Intake, rails, injectors, sensors, throttle body, throttle cable, harness, ECU, fuel pump. Those are the minimum required things you need. Truck intake/rails/injectors/throttle body can be had for less than $100. Truck harness and ECU can probably be found for $150 or less.
An intake with return style fuel rails will already have the regulator mounted on it.
07-11-2016, 07:06 AM
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i have a truck intake and ecu from a 5.3. Will thr 5.3 ecu Work with a 6.0? The throttle body i have is a drive by wire. I dont want to use that. Also the motor has a pretty good cam. Long tubes. And udp. Would i be better off just going with a 4150 style throttle body and keeping my single plane intake? Otherwise my current cam will never match up even close to a stock style intake and throttle body.
07-11-2016, 07:07 AM
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I was thinking of getting the accufab 4150 throttle body. If possible id like returnless style fuel system. Which rails would allow me to do that? And can i run the vette regulator that everyone talkes about to acheieve this?
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07-11-2016, 12:55 PM
#10
Joe:
Basic assumptions: if carb, then no electronics. (Except for a MSD box for spark)
Likely running a low pressure pump.
So: will need tb of some sort, plus sensors. (Iac, tps)
Then a harness and something to control fueling. (Pcm, or aftermarket)
Injectors
High pressure pump. (Carb set ups run low pressure, between 8 and 12 psi)
It all adds up.
Kenny:
How much power u want to make and why are you changing?
Basic assumptions: if carb, then no electronics. (Except for a MSD box for spark)
Likely running a low pressure pump.
So: will need tb of some sort, plus sensors. (Iac, tps)
Then a harness and something to control fueling. (Pcm, or aftermarket)
Injectors
High pressure pump. (Carb set ups run low pressure, between 8 and 12 psi)
It all adds up.
Kenny:
How much power u want to make and why are you changing?
07-11-2016, 01:26 PM
#11
Beyond purchasing the parts, you will have to:
Set up the harness to work (ground, key hot, battery hot)
Mount 02 sensors if you want closed loop.
Tune pcm for cam
I do not think it will be cheap.
Now, you could go with a standalone fuel injection set up (tbi) type.
Basically replaces your carb and MSD box.
But that is super expensive.
Set up the harness to work (ground, key hot, battery hot)
Mount 02 sensors if you want closed loop.
Tune pcm for cam
I do not think it will be cheap.
Now, you could go with a standalone fuel injection set up (tbi) type.
Basically replaces your carb and MSD box.
But that is super expensive.
07-11-2016, 01:31 PM
#12
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I've done lots of swaps. Both carb and fuel injection. Both in my garage and at the magazine i used to work for.
I'm finishing up this customer swap. $2300 total cost. That includes engine, entire fuel system, wiring, ecu, cam, headers, ARP head bolts. LS7 lifters, dual fans, F body pan, and on and on. Could have done it for $2000 or less with minor tradeoffs.
I know EXACTLY how much it will cost, fittings and all. I am not making any guesses.
You can score a stock truck throttle body, intake, rails, injectors, MAP sensor, and regulator for $75 bucks.
Fuel pump/vette filter combo runs about $150.
Harness/ECU runs $150.
Lines/fittings runs $90 from the tank to the rail.
Your carb/MSD/intake will more than cover the costs of a FI swap.
I'm finishing up this customer swap. $2300 total cost. That includes engine, entire fuel system, wiring, ecu, cam, headers, ARP head bolts. LS7 lifters, dual fans, F body pan, and on and on. Could have done it for $2000 or less with minor tradeoffs.
I know EXACTLY how much it will cost, fittings and all. I am not making any guesses.
You can score a stock truck throttle body, intake, rails, injectors, MAP sensor, and regulator for $75 bucks.
Fuel pump/vette filter combo runs about $150.
Harness/ECU runs $150.
Lines/fittings runs $90 from the tank to the rail.
Your carb/MSD/intake will more than cover the costs of a FI swap.
Last edited by JoeNova; 07-11-2016 at 01:39 PM.
07-11-2016, 01:37 PM
#13
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im wanting to do the swap because eventually i will be putting a single turbo on the car and would rather have fuel injection. Id also rather use a 4150 style. From what ive gathered. I could use
Accufab tb
Ford green tip injectors
Edelbrock fuel rails
Appropriate fuel pump and regulator
Not sure what else i would need yet
Accufab tb
Ford green tip injectors
Edelbrock fuel rails
Appropriate fuel pump and regulator
Not sure what else i would need yet
07-11-2016, 02:26 PM
#17
OK, couple things to keep in mind based on long term plans:
If you are going FI in the future, you need good fuel supply. That means a good pump (or two)
What is your current pump set up and how much power do you want to make?
You can go cheap, or you can plan ahead and save some money.
I like the Magnaflow 4303. It is easy to set up, reliable on the street, and can support over 1000 HP in a turbo set up.
Set the fuel system up right now, or spend money again later. Up to you.
TB: Liking a turbo set up to a top feed TB like what you are looking at sucks.
There is little room for the bend to come into the TB unless you custom fab something.
I have seen it done, but it was not cheap.
You will have to tap your intake for the fuel injector bosses and also the rails.
Advise: Go for a more traditional intake set up.
If your final goal is FI, and you are going to make less than 1000 HP, go for a stock set up.
For the money, try and score a NNBS truck intake. It is set up for a 90MM TB.
Buy a cable driven TB, since you do not want drive by wire.
Or score a 2002 and earlier truck intake and TB. Trade off - it is the 78MM set up 3 bolt, vs the better 90MM.
Harness: If you have the time and know how, convert the harness to fit your needs. Collect all grounds, collect all hots, eliminate what you dont need ETC ETC.
And then, add the cost of tuning this.
So, back to my orignal statement: If you are going from carb to FI, and want to do it right, it will be expensive.
Joe has shown that it can be done on the cheap, and I do not disagree. But there are some other costs (like tuning) and time (modifying the harness) to account for beyond parts.
I personally like to spend the extra coin and give me room for growth down the line.
If you are going FI in the future, you need good fuel supply. That means a good pump (or two)
What is your current pump set up and how much power do you want to make?
You can go cheap, or you can plan ahead and save some money.
I like the Magnaflow 4303. It is easy to set up, reliable on the street, and can support over 1000 HP in a turbo set up.
Set the fuel system up right now, or spend money again later. Up to you.
TB: Liking a turbo set up to a top feed TB like what you are looking at sucks.
There is little room for the bend to come into the TB unless you custom fab something.
I have seen it done, but it was not cheap.
You will have to tap your intake for the fuel injector bosses and also the rails.
Advise: Go for a more traditional intake set up.
If your final goal is FI, and you are going to make less than 1000 HP, go for a stock set up.
For the money, try and score a NNBS truck intake. It is set up for a 90MM TB.
Buy a cable driven TB, since you do not want drive by wire.
Or score a 2002 and earlier truck intake and TB. Trade off - it is the 78MM set up 3 bolt, vs the better 90MM.
Harness: If you have the time and know how, convert the harness to fit your needs. Collect all grounds, collect all hots, eliminate what you dont need ETC ETC.
And then, add the cost of tuning this.
So, back to my orignal statement: If you are going from carb to FI, and want to do it right, it will be expensive.
Joe has shown that it can be done on the cheap, and I do not disagree. But there are some other costs (like tuning) and time (modifying the harness) to account for beyond parts.
I personally like to spend the extra coin and give me room for growth down the line.
07-11-2016, 02:33 PM
#18
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Good info for sure. As far as money and parts go, i don't mind spending money on something i know ill be happy with. I already have a earlier style truck intake so i guess ill jis use that. As far as throttle body goes. Can i put a dbc tb on there even though it came with a dbw? Will the 5.3 ecu i have work with the 6.0? I don't need to make 1000hp. Its a street car that gets driven to work 50 miles away. As for fuel setup. I only want to do that once. Oh and is a stock dbc tb good enough or do i need an aftermarket one? Im thinking somewhere in thr mid 600s to low 700s for hp
07-11-2016, 03:16 PM
#19
For forced induction, the size of the TB does not matter as much.
Your PCM (assuming it is a 411) will work.
You will have to have it tuned to make changes.
For nbs trucks :intakes, injectors and PCMs were pretty much all the same.
Calibration had some differences, but pretty much the same.
I converted a 04 PCM from dbw to dbc because I hated dealing with the TAC module and pedal. Was cheaper than getting the right pedal/TAC module etc. (I did not get it originally)
For fuel: how are you set up now? On an older truck I did a Holley blue. The owner wanted a carb no matter what. It worked fine. But will not work for FI.
You are going to run around 58psi for a stock set up. So you need a pump.
Now decide: in tank, or external?
Pros and cons to each.
What are your current fuel lines like?
I am sure they will work, but for the future I would say AN fittings and good line is a must.
Plus it makes the engine bay POP vs a stock set up. (They are ugly, specially the truck stuff)
Your PCM (assuming it is a 411) will work.
You will have to have it tuned to make changes.
For nbs trucks :intakes, injectors and PCMs were pretty much all the same.
Calibration had some differences, but pretty much the same.
I converted a 04 PCM from dbw to dbc because I hated dealing with the TAC module and pedal. Was cheaper than getting the right pedal/TAC module etc. (I did not get it originally)
For fuel: how are you set up now? On an older truck I did a Holley blue. The owner wanted a carb no matter what. It worked fine. But will not work for FI.
You are going to run around 58psi for a stock set up. So you need a pump.
Now decide: in tank, or external?
Pros and cons to each.
What are your current fuel lines like?
I am sure they will work, but for the future I would say AN fittings and good line is a must.
Plus it makes the engine bay POP vs a stock set up. (They are ugly, specially the truck stuff)