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PWM fuel pump setup. Why is it not more common?

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Old 01-06-2018, 10:23 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by stevieturbo View Post
It's a little funny when you say poor design by todays standards.

The 044 has been around for some 30+ years or thereabouts...and few pumps can match it for both performance...and probably none matched for reliability.
I have never dissected an electric fuel pump. I'm sure some designs are ahead of their time, and some far behind. I figured if someone knows, I would ask the question.
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Old 01-07-2018, 06:15 AM   #42
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I took apart another Bosch pump some 25 years ago after I broke it.

I'd soldered a pickup pipe into the tank of my Mini to fit a Bosch pump, but never had any sort of filter on it. A small piece of solder managed to get into the pump and seize it.

TBH it was nothing fancy....big motor and a roller cell pumpy bit at the bottom. Small piece of solder got jammed in one of the rollers.
It wasnt an 044 but fairly sure 044's are of similar design. Although any 044's I've used in recent years also have a filter screen inside the base..

I tried to put the pump back together again, but could never get the crimped bit at the top to seal again....they're clearly not designed to be taken apart and tried to put back together by idiots lol
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Old 01-07-2018, 11:39 AM   #43
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Hi ALL, I NEVER stated "today's standards".

I too have disassembled the 044 finding a similar rotor construction, a design over 100 years old.
This process was BEFORE plastic was invented that is now used to reduce rotor friction.

The modern PMM design (twenty+years ago first) is common to fuel pumps today.
This style is natural PWM, Brush-less, sealed rotor, low current consumption
The internal Field Correction is a read using a Hall Sensor and a measurement of the Pole Magnet position.

Lance, BTW my first motor inspection was done at the age of three, my toy train set.
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Old 01-07-2018, 12:04 PM   #44
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BTW my first motor inspection was done at the age of three, my toy train set.
And the rest, as they say, is history!
When did you tear apart your first Briggs and Stratton (or similar 1-cylinder engine)?
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Old 01-07-2018, 03:46 PM   #45
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Hi G, my first (own) one cylinder engine inspection was when I found a Lawn Mower, a two stroke engine, set out in the neighbors trash. (Fourth Grade)
Though to be fair, my father let me "wash" his motorcycle parts before that inspection.

Lance
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Old 01-07-2018, 09:06 PM   #46
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I don’t know this for sure but I think the oem pumps that are PWM are different than the standard pumps so there might be some reliability or performance issues. That being said injector dynamics is coming out with a pump and pwm controller so it is definitely on the aftermarket radar. Would like to see how it does though would be a great thing if the pumps will work with it.
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Old 01-08-2018, 02:43 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by 98redorangeta View Post
I donít know this for sure but I think the oem pumps that are PWM are different than the standard pumps so there might be some reliability or performance issues. That being said injector dynamics is coming out with a pump and pwm controller so it is definitely on the aftermarket radar. Would like to see how it does though would be a great thing if the pumps will work with it.
Fuelab and Protec have had brushless variable speed pumps out for some time now. Protec many years actually.

So anything ID have coming out wont be anything new in that sense.

But there should be no issues PWMing a motor when done correctly...pretty much any motor as it is the correct way to vary the speed of a standard DC motor.
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Old 01-13-2018, 05:04 AM   #48
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I've sent a message to VaporWorx inquiring about a PWM slave pump module. Most all their stuff is self contained meaning it's a standalone setup already. I'd love to be able to PWM my primary pumps to keep power draw down, fuel temps lower and extend the life of the pumps. If they can't help out I may be able to convince Dave Steck to do something since he's already worked on that stuff on the OEM side of things.
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Old 01-13-2018, 06:26 AM   #49
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Are you having issues with fuel temperatures ? What are you seeing ?
Likewise pump reliability ?
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:52 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by stevieturbo View Post
Are you having issues with fuel temperatures ? What are you seeing ?
Likewise pump reliability ?
Not really, but two 450 pumps running full blast all the time is a lot of wasted energy and does heat it up. In this cold weather it doesn't take long for my fuel temp to rise up to 120degF
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Old 01-13-2018, 04:22 PM   #51
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Do you have a very small fuel tank ?

Even on mine...even after driving for 4 hours only very rarely have I seen running temps that high, although that was with a pair of 044's
One of those times was last year when stuck in some shitty traffic for ages on a very warm day ( Warm here would be 75-80degF lol )

Temps might get to around 120degF on mine with lots of sitting about due to heat soak with a lot of stop starts. But once the pumps are running again and fuel circulating they always drop.
I do have a reasonably large fuel tank though, almost never less than 20 litres in it.

I will be switching to 450's though and changing to an in-tank setup just as soon as I can get the time to do it. I've 3 and a hanger all sitting waiting !
So it will be an interesting swap. Will probably just use 2 of them though, but figured may was well install all 3 anyway.
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