Moser 12bolt T/A problems, Solution....
Thread Starter
!Dial-up Director
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,100
Likes: 1
From: Louisiana
Moser 12bolt T/A problems, Solution.... Everyone I know that has a Moser 12bolt has problems with the torque arm bolts backing out. We have tried red loctite and 100ft/lbs of torque and still they back out. Mine broke this way and so did a couple of friends. We have some stout aftermarket torque arms available but they will all break if the bolts let go. What is the solution for this?
Well I would like a nut and bolt setup like the stock and Strange rear ends. It seems there is no problems with bolts backing out this way? I have not looked at my 12 bolt close enough, but I assume running a long bolt through it is out of the question, even with some machine work? Differntial probably gets in the way otherwise why would Moser use 4 bolts?
So what can be done? I am considering trading mine in for a Strange. I drive my car to the track and would like to feel confident that I will drive it back. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Justin
Well I would like a nut and bolt setup like the stock and Strange rear ends. It seems there is no problems with bolts backing out this way? I have not looked at my 12 bolt close enough, but I assume running a long bolt through it is out of the question, even with some machine work? Differntial probably gets in the way otherwise why would Moser use 4 bolts?
So what can be done? I am considering trading mine in for a Strange. I drive my car to the track and would like to feel confident that I will drive it back. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Justin
Re: Moser 12bolt T/A problems, Solution.... Could you put a tack weld on them?Then hit it quickly with a grinding wheel when you want to take them out?I was not aware that Moser used 4 bolts <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Thank god I bought the Strange <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
TECH Regular
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 422
Likes: 0
From: Yakima, WA
Re: Moser 12bolt T/A problems, Solution.... Hmm, I find it odd that the bolts are still backing out w/ locktite....Have you gotten longer bolts? My understanding is that the Bolts supplied by Moser and possibly the ones you've replaced them with leave many a thread available in the hole. The more thread basically the more surface area for clamping for you'll have.
Just curious but what type of bolts are you using also?
Good luck!
Just curious but what type of bolts are you using also?
Good luck!
Thread Starter
!Dial-up Director
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,100
Likes: 1
From: Louisiana
Re: Moser 12bolt T/A problems, Solution.... Tack weld eh? I guess if all else fails LOL. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Kurtis, I am going to get some longer grade 8 bolts tomorrow.
Thanks!
Justin
Kurtis, I am going to get some longer grade 8 bolts tomorrow.
Thanks!
Justin
On The Tree
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
From: Hammond La,
Re: Moser 12bolt T/A problems, Solution.... Justin if you want we can put it on my rack and tack your bolts in place. I should be home most of the weekend.
Later
Darren
<small>[ November 08, 2002, 09:55 PM: Message edited by: Darren ]</small>
Later
Darren
<small>[ November 08, 2002, 09:55 PM: Message edited by: Darren ]</small>
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,413
Likes: 0
From: PURDUE
Re: Moser 12bolt T/A problems, Solution.... Lock Washers + Red Loctite? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
BTW, I've had my Moser in for 1 year with NO loctite, and they haven't backed out yet.
<small>[ November 08, 2002, 10:37 PM: Message edited by: bigSS ]</small>
BTW, I've had my Moser in for 1 year with NO loctite, and they haven't backed out yet.
<small>[ November 08, 2002, 10:37 PM: Message edited by: bigSS ]</small>
Staging Lane
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
From: Monroe, Georgia
Re: Moser 12bolt T/A problems, Solution.... I've had my Moser in for almost 2 years without any problems w/the torque arm (just problems with the posi unit). I use red loctite and lock washers. But, my friend does have this problem-we haven't tried the lock washers yet.
Joel
Joel
Trending Topics
TECH Regular
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 449
Likes: 0
From: Monroe LA
Re: Moser 12bolt T/A problems, Solution.... Justin, if you wanna sell the moser and buy a strange, let me know. I think my auto will be a lil easier on the Moser than your M6.
The tack welding does sound like a viable solution though.
BTW went 11.49-117.87 in 461ft DA without tuning yesterday. Cant wait til I get all my mods done. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
The tack welding does sound like a viable solution though.
BTW went 11.49-117.87 in 461ft DA without tuning yesterday. Cant wait til I get all my mods done. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
Amazing '71 Camaro Restomod Is Modern Muscle Car Under the Skin
Verdad Gallardo
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
TECH Addict
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,319
Likes: 0
From: Lewisville, Texas
Re: Moser 12bolt T/A problems, Solution.... Justin,
Have you tried the industrial grade(green) loctite? We use it on jet engines in certain applications where you have to insure the bolts can't back out, like the tie bolt which holds compressor and turbine sections together. The only consideration when using the industrial grade would be when you have to remove the bolts as the industrial grade sets up harder than a rock, I've snapped bolt heads off because whoever put the engine together before me used to much loctite. I can get you the PN# if you want, let me know.
Mark
Have you tried the industrial grade(green) loctite? We use it on jet engines in certain applications where you have to insure the bolts can't back out, like the tie bolt which holds compressor and turbine sections together. The only consideration when using the industrial grade would be when you have to remove the bolts as the industrial grade sets up harder than a rock, I've snapped bolt heads off because whoever put the engine together before me used to much loctite. I can get you the PN# if you want, let me know.
Mark
Thread Starter
!Dial-up Director
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,100
Likes: 1
From: Louisiana
Re: Moser 12bolt T/A problems, Solution.... SAC, congrats on the new times! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
I was just talking to someone yesterday about industrial grade loctite. They said you would have to heat it up with a tourch to remove the bolts or they would break off. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> Could you email me that part number and where I can get it?
I am going to try the longer grade 8 bolts, lock washers, and red loctite first and see if that holds.
Justin
I was just talking to someone yesterday about industrial grade loctite. They said you would have to heat it up with a tourch to remove the bolts or they would break off. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> Could you email me that part number and where I can get it?
I am going to try the longer grade 8 bolts, lock washers, and red loctite first and see if that holds.
Justin
TECH Addict
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,319
Likes: 0
From: Lewisville, Texas
Re: Moser 12bolt T/A problems, Solution.... Justin,
I'll get tha PN# tomorrow at work and shot you an e-mail. I'll look in my tool box, I may have some I could send you. I work for an aircraft parts supply company we may carry it, if we do I'll see what it costs.
Mark
I'll get tha PN# tomorrow at work and shot you an e-mail. I'll look in my tool box, I may have some I could send you. I work for an aircraft parts supply company we may carry it, if we do I'll see what it costs.
Mark
The Bull
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,578
Likes: 2
From: Grand Rapids, MI
Re: Moser 12bolt T/A problems, Solution.... Justin,
You can have the holes extended enough into the casting to allow you to cotter pin the bolt up in there. Basically you would need a small hole through the end of the bolts exposed enough to slip the pin through.
I've had my Moser now for a few months and checked the bolts on the torque arm when the u-joint exploded. All of them were fine.
As far as thread goes, no matter how many threads you have the basic rule is that a bolt will be at full strength with at least three threads engagement or 1.5 times the thread diameter. In extreme cases 2 times the thread diameter is used as a saftey factor.
You can have the holes extended enough into the casting to allow you to cotter pin the bolt up in there. Basically you would need a small hole through the end of the bolts exposed enough to slip the pin through.
I've had my Moser now for a few months and checked the bolts on the torque arm when the u-joint exploded. All of them were fine.
As far as thread goes, no matter how many threads you have the basic rule is that a bolt will be at full strength with at least three threads engagement or 1.5 times the thread diameter. In extreme cases 2 times the thread diameter is used as a saftey factor.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 696
Likes: 0
From: Rockland County, NY
Re: Moser 12bolt T/A problems, Solution.... Another option to stop the bolts from backing out is to safety wire them. I did a Google search on safety wire....here are some articles
http://www.geocities.com/robm351/pantera/index-24.html
http://www.rx7turboturbo.com/robrobi...afety_wire.htm
http://www.ultralightnews.com/pilots...safetywire.htm
http://www.geocities.com/robm351/pantera/index-24.html
http://www.rx7turboturbo.com/robrobi...afety_wire.htm
http://www.ultralightnews.com/pilots...safetywire.htm
Re: Moser 12bolt T/A problems, Solution.... I had the same problem and I found out the bolts I was using weren't long enough. I was only using one inch bolts with a BMR Xtreme duty torque arm with lock washers and red loctite. I went to 1 3/4" bolts and used a flatwasher, a lockwasher and red loctite. I did this about a month ago and I check them every week. So far so good. Hope this helps.
TECH Regular
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 452
Likes: 0
From: Georgia
Re: Moser 12bolt T/A problems, Solution.... I had this happen to me too Justin and it broke the s#$@ out of my factory torque arm. Now I have the spohn and I went to longer bolts with lock washers and red loctite with no problems so far.
TECH Resident
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 958
Likes: 0
From: Mentor, Ohio
Re: Moser 12bolt T/A problems, Solution.... One of my bolts backed out completely and tore the **** out of my arm, now I have anothe OEM one for now but I can't get the fu%^ing front mount in for the life of me! I have the poly mount and I have it in the bracket but I can't get the upper bolt to line up enought to start it. Is there something I am doning wrong? I have the rear of the car suspended by jackstands on the frame rails and a floor jack holding the trans!
Re: Moser 12bolt T/A problems, Solution.... Safety wire, Nuff said. Used on race cars all the time, and they wont back out. There are a few techniques, but I guess that I just learned it by being around it all the time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />